Community spirit - "Off Topic"

[DarkKnightH20]

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[bobsobol]

Aww, bless. That's a lovely smile. : Our youngest has that look when she can't catch the cat teaser. XD

My cats have travelled since they where kittens so they cope much better, but they prefer to be on the front seat. Now they are full-grown, it's rather difficult to manage all of them. One cat, with a harness on the passengers lap is not a problem... unfortunately, it probably means we are going to see the vet lady. :scared:

We scream in cat boxes on the back seat. We can feel movement but can't see where we are going. :*:

 

[Vormav]

Best fails of 2011 >=P

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I think some of those are wayyyyyy over the top, I wonder how many of them died...
My favorite is 8:58, best way to fake car accident XD

 

[DarkKnightH20]

Hahahaha. Loved the fake car one too

 

[DarkKnightH20]

 

[Vormav]

Everyday I'm Shuffling.

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XD

 

[SheenBR]

I just love those songs. It just makes me more secure in atheism than never.

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I strongly recommend you guys to watch this too:

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[bobsobol]

Hey Sheen / .Price., I noticed you asked for sub-titles for the last video elsewhere. (P.S. you may want to reconsider that, ) We're off-topic here anyway, so I transcribed Pt1 for you.

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or you can download a

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with them embedded as soft-subs. (I don't like hard subs, even if any player will show them... they destroy what was there, and make it messy if you try to translate them)

I actually don't agree with a lot of what he is saying, except that getting in peoples faces and telling them they are wrong is not a good way to change peoples mind.

I personally see no conflict between science and theology, and can only describe the beauty of the physical world, as seen through the eyes of a scientist, as a glimpse at the beauty of God. My wife, who professes to be an atheist, would love his talk, however.

He makes a lot of good points and I agree with his initial premiss, but cannot abide the manner in which he continues to pose his argument against his own teaching. : Seems to me, the one who "shot them-self in the foot" was him.

 

[SheenBR]

That speech was for atheist people I think, so I guess he isnt telling people what to belive or not.(correct if I'm wrong.)

and I'm sorry, I didnt understand why you didnt like that speech. and btw, thanks for the subs.

btw, I would advise you to read Richard Dawkins's (not sure about the 's but...) book: The God Delusion and Sam Harris's one: The end of faith and Letter to a Christian nation. (which is the best in my POV).

If it isnt too much to ask, I'd really love to see part 2 and 3 lol

 

[bobsobol]

I have them, and can work it up. Takes a little time to transcribe and get the timing right... especially as he says long complicated things to read very quickly, and short simple things very slowly. His grammar is appalling too, BTW.

I wouldn't use him as a role model to practice for your English oral. I think he took lessons on public speaking from this guy:-

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No... he tells the listeners that calling people a "brain damaged idiot and a Special person" doesn't win any favours. Then... he insults people who believe scientists and empirical thinkers in authority when they tell them that MMR vaccines may have links to autism. Which, at the time, they did. Instances of one went on the rise at the same time as government subsidised the issue of the other. You can't humiliate Andrew Wakefield for making an alarming observation of potential concern to all known publicly.... Can you?

He tells us that Homoeopathic Medicine isn't "real" Medicine... despite the fact that much of it has been proven to be effective over more generations than have known what the word "Hospital" meant, just because no pharmaceutical company could patent it, and therefore can't be arsed putting it through drug screening trials when it isn't a controlled substance anyway. Suggesting we are idiots if we believe otherwise. etc.

Okay... he's clearly trying to be topical and humorous. Because the "diluted out of existence" gag is related to an article which showed that certain homoeopathic remedies contained many of the same chemicals prescribed by Doctors, only in a lower dose.

Spoiler

Well, duh! Like we didn't know aspirin was derived from Hazel bark and penicillin was developed from mould before we bought our homoeopathic remedies containing these extracts, without the bore of trying to book an appointment to see our GP sometime 3 weeks after we've already recovered from our "head cold" because the "nanny state" wont let us buy these "real medicines" without a prescription and "the NHS is overworked".

Gee, I wonder why? -.-

But, to my ear, he's just making himself look foolish and defeating his own argument. "Do as I say, not as I do." ... You went to the trouble of scripting this, and still got it so wrong?

Which is a shame, because he does have some good points. Most of them, actually. Just very badly argued.

 

[Vormav]

and I'm sorry, I didnt understand why you didnt like that speech.

It's not your fault, actually bobsobol is hardcore new born Christian.

Hmm... btw what will happen when you drink 2 bottles of some Homoeopathic medicine? ...Nothing
So Homoeopathic Medicine on its own is not a medicine. It's something else that is working.
IMHO Homoeopathic is scam :/


PS. somehow I like this:

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It sums up Christians.

 

[SheenBR]

sam harris is just awesome. IDK if thats the video I thought it is, but if so, this is just the small part I'd like for you to listen: (imho, I think sam harris is best than phil plait. phil is just a scientist and afaik harris is just an atheist writer.)

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what about him bob? about the subtitles, I wouldnt mind if you're not kind to spare your time in it, I can understand that you didnt like the guy

if thats from vormav's piece, I really would like to see the subtitles, I try, but I just cant follow what he says. you see, something like:

when I'm saying "an elephant" I make it clear to myself that i'm saying that, but for a native speaker, they speak too fast that it'd sound: "anelephant" you know what I mean?

 

[bobsobol]

Is

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the same Sam Harris? Looks likely. Yes, I've read some of his work and appreciated it. If he contradicted himself in that speech, it was edited out. XD A much better speaker.

And I completely agree with what he's saying, with regards to evangelical preaching. In many ways, I felt that Phil Plait was "preaching" evangelically his atheistic faith at me. You know? Sounds like crap, I know. But even he admitted he's "evangelic about science". I guess that if I am "evangelic" about anything, it's "choice"... particularly in software, but generally in everything, and so also in faith.

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A "Christian" hard rock band from the '90s that I quite liked, though I don't share their faith. From my point of view, any faith practitioner who forces their understanding on you is the liar.

Even between ourselves, we can see that you don't teach anyone anything by giving them the answer. You teach them by helping them solve the problem for themselves. Zen Koans are the best example I can give... but not everyone can follow that form of guidance.

Accordingly, I would not wish to force my liberal, but undoubted view of the almighty on anyone else. As another popular monotheistic faith would say "It's all good, all the time."

Gentle reminder: It's often said that the two topics which should never be discussed at dinner with guests are "religion" and "politics". I think we've covered both in this thread, to some extent, and this is an open forum. I hope I have not offended anyone, (please correct me if I'm wrong, so I can be more careful in future) and do not wish to see anyone else being offensive to others. Remember, I know for a fact that some of our regular readers, and contributors are active, practising Christians, Muslims and Jews. (I could, but will not, name examples of each) I'm also fairly certain the demographic is wider than those three.

Peace, always,

bobsobol​

 

[Vormav]

@.Price.
why are you changing you names LOL?
Did you read God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything?
I don't know if its good but I know that Christopher Hitchens have great Hitchslaps :}

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@bobsobol
I don't think that religion deserve any respect.

Religious pplz are like that:
"I don't support hate, violence or discrimination.
I simply devote my life to supporting book that supports hate, violence and discrimination."

I hate when they pick and chose from they "holly" bible

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I think that I will never understand religion, why not just live for pleasure?

 

[SheenBR]

@vormav
LOL, dunno just got tired of that username XD


Its funny when people say something like: "i cant murder, rob or do any harm to anyone, because jesus told me so. its in his 10 laws." you see, you only dont do that because jesus told you or because its unethical and its wrong indeed?

and I liked the way he started that video XD

@bobsobol
Yes, its the same Sam Harris lol, I couldnt understand it very well because I cant listen to what he's saying XD

In my POV, religion makes you stop thinking. just like those dogmas. when they said jesus's mother was and still is a virgin and yet became pregnant of him. (completely ilogical) and that god/jesus and holy spirit are just one person but at the same time they are separated. see, just like saying 3=1, it doesnt make any sense. I wish I could belive in such things without questioning, but I just cant...

if you like philosophers, please watch this short video of Bertrand Russell:

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I know this is one of the things you cant discuss, but I mean, if I open such a thread in the debates section a lot of religion fanboys would show up saying nonsense... I think here the chances of someone getting offended is low. (as we all know each other) and if I may ask, are you religious bob?

 

[Vormav]

Its funny when people say something like: "i cant murder, rob or do any harm to anyone, because jesus told me so. its in his 10 laws." you see, you only dont do that because jesus told you or because its unethical and its wrong indeed?

I don't believe that Christians can be good just "because". They are good only because they are afraid to be tortured in hell for eternity.

PS. You don't understand they "inglish" well? Your written inhlish is better than mine and I have no problem with what they are saying.

 

[SheenBR]

its too fast for my ears =/ lol

btw, another interesting thing is that, James Randi (

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) created a so-called challenge. He started to offer a 1.000.000U$ prize for anyone that could prove a supernatural event, using science. it started in 2008, and so far no one won it lol

more info:

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all logs can be found here tho:

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[bobsobol]

I'm just going to pick up a couple of things there, because I don't disagree with most of the attacks on "organised religious groups". I'll leave that for someone who gets some real benefit from one to pick up. But I think you are generalising all religious belief with Christian zealots. (there are some of those in the world)

@bobsobol
I don't think that religion deserve any respect.

Religious pplz are like that:
"I don't support hate, violence or discrimination.
I simply devote my life to supporting book that supports hate, violence and discrimination."

Could you honestly say that to the face of the Dali Lama? He is, undoubtedly a deeply Religious person, and a sincere devotee of non-violence and universal love. But I cannot imagine him ever devoting his life to a book which supports violence and discrimination.

Just a thought.

In fact, most Buddhist scripture isn't written in a book, and what is written at all is usually on drums or scrolls. You aren't supposed to learn this faith from a book, but from life, after life of experience... perhaps a good master. (one more enlightened, or further along the path, than you)

I think that I will never understand religion, why not just live for pleasure?

Only if that pleasure is Universal. To live for the betterment of all, is one of the primary goals of most faiths. But to achieve this, one generally has to forgo many potential selfish pleasures... you know, the ones that are typically abusive to others.

For example, a Muslim may not understand why pork is forbidden except that God says the pig is dirty, and that (s)he need not understand why God makes such rules, only recognise his superior understanding and obey them. But a sufficiently enlightened Buddhist knows that all animals are our family, our brothers and sisters... potentially, our next reincarnation! Clearly, farming animals purely for the pleasure of consuming their flesh is no way to spend your life.

Jesus taught that "it is better to give than receive", and clearly we all gain some pleasure in sharing things here... and certainly where "intellectual property" is concerned, if everyone gives freely, everyone gets far more than they give in any case.

Islamic teachings on the burqa are exactly because the pleasure men can derive from the female form is objectifying and belittles her intellectual, and spiritual value. (just look at sports illustrated or playboy and you know what I mean)

What you find with most atheists is that they have a perfectly sound morality of their own. They don't need a book, Pope etc. to guide them. And that's fine. Other people require guidance... spiritual support.

--- EDIT ---
One I missed earlier:-

Hmm... btw what will happen when you drink 2 bottles of some Homoeopathic medicine? ...Nothing
So Homoeopathic Medicine on its own is not a medicine. It's something else that is working.
IMHO Homoeopathic is scam :/

First, we actually say "Homoeopathic Remedy", it is a "remedial treatment", just like taking aspirin for a cold. It won't cure, but can speed up or help you get through.

Second, if I'm constipated, I can guarantee that half a box of Liquorish Allsorts will fix that, and more besides in no time. >.< Sadly, I love them, but I almost need to be constipated before I dare eat any.

Our Homoeopathic shops sell anything which doesn't need a chemist to distribute them. So Caffeine pills for night workers, drivers, students etc. Some people have even over-dosed on Caffeine. Protein drinks for body builders, slimming drinks for weight watchers... etc.

You can't say these things don't work, clearly they do. Are any of them going to prevent cancer or cure H.I.V. ? Nahhh.

@.Price. Am I "religious"? That is not for me to say. My friends and family cannot agree on that. But their opinion, largely depends on their own point of view. From where I stand, it seems like it depends on whether they follow God, no God, or a "church".

Many people follow their "church" rather than their God. (our God) The two are not, ever, the same. But many miss that point. (this, I sense, is what Vormav is most irate about)

 

[Vormav]

Could you honestly say that to the face of the Dali Lama? He is, undoubtedly a deeply Religious person, and a sincere devotee of non-violence and universal love. But I cannot imagine him ever devoting his life to a book which supports violence and discrimination.

You can't be serous? You don't simply gain respect from talking about love and peace and Dalai Lama is not as "crystal clear" as you think.

Here is part of Penn & Teller shenanigans episode:
(they exaggerate in some cases but they saying facts about him!)

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Did you know that he's also eating meat... he would not kill a mosquito but "food" killed by someone else... that's ok... I hate hypocrites.
"His holiness" is not so good now?

In fact, most Buddhist scripture isn't written in a book, and what is written at all is usually on drums or scrolls. You aren't supposed to learn this faith from a book, but from life, after life of experience... perhaps a good master. (one more enlightened, or further along the path, than you)

If there where religion, scripts, way of life, enlightened... whatever you call it that would tell you to be good and so on but there where part that tells you to drop tomato from the mountain every 7 days... would you not skip tomato part? You see "religion", "faith" is "tomato" part not "good" part.

Jesus taught that "it is better to give than receive", and clearly we all gain some pleasure in sharing things here... and certainly where "intellectual property" is concerned, if everyone gives freely, everyone gets far more than they give in any case.

He also said that you can drink deadly poison:

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You just picking good parts.

Islamic teachings on the burqa are exactly because the pleasure men can derive from the female form is objectifying and belittles her intellectual, and spiritual value. (just look at sports illustrated or playboy and you know what I mean)

Few years ago they where debating if women need two eyes uncovered. Islam is like Christianity at "good old days" when they where burning witches...

First, we actually say "Homoeopathic Remedy", it is a "remedial treatment", just like taking aspirin for a cold. It won't cure, but can speed up or help you get through.

Second, if I'm constipated, I can guarantee that half a box of Liquorish Allsorts will fix that, and more besides in no time. >.< Sadly, I love them, but I almost need to be constipated before I dare eat any.

Our Homoeopathic shops sell anything which doesn't need a chemist to distribute them. So Caffeine pills for night workers, drivers, students etc. Some people have even over-dosed on Caffeine. Protein drinks for body builders, slimming drinks for weight watchers... etc.

You can't say these things don't work, clearly they do. Are any of them going to prevent cancer or cure H.I.V. ? Nahhh.

Here is beloved .Price. telling about homoeopathic:

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I have a lot of respect to what he is saying. I hope he will "amuse" you on this subject He's just great!


bobsobol... if you are good because you are good and you cutting out bad parts from religion than why you need religion for? Why you need to create another religion that will be exactly the same as old one was.

If people need to help others why put your hands together and start telling god to do something good?
Why not just make 10 sandwiches and give them to poor?
Religion just teaching you that you are helping while doing absolutely nothing.

PS. What do you mean by saying "our God"? Do you have a prof that "any God" exist?
And if he exist prof that he is "good"?

 

[bobsobol]

I do not believe he is "good" in any sense other than the word "good" is an evolution of the word "God". In the English language, the word "good" is, or was once, exactly equivalent to the word "Halal" and not dissimilar to "Kosher". It means "that which came from, or is blessed by God". What? He doesn't bless himself? Self-loathing God? XD Just a thought.

If I could prove (scientifically) the existence of God, I would destroy him. The definition of what he is is that which cannot be seen or identified in the physical world. You pull him here so you can prove him and he isn't God any more. XD

"Nothing as useful as the Babel fish could possibly exist without divine intervention, therefore it proves that God exists.
But, says God, 'proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."
Man then goes on to prove that black is white and white is black and promptly gets run down on a Zebra Crossing.

Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy​