Help beginners and intermediates become teachers

[masterdragon]

As the Prefix says: Discussion.
Im really not good english speaker (i guess), im brazillian. But i try hard for it.

Off:
Qualquer BR que queiram contato pra trocar informações me adiciona no skype se quiser: JackParanauer
Those (even) ENG who wanna share something (that i can handle or be able to speak) can add me in skype: JackParanauer

And for what im capable to say, i wanna share some of my opinions:
(These are things i THINK, my OPINION. I wanna only help ppl who might thinking the same. Or at least keep it clear.)

First,
I Think some (or most) guys (not necessarily here) are more worried about they knowledge and hability to show it for those that equates to them, than bring noobs and averages to it.

Even those who really help are more worried about they skills to help than help itself.

I cant say it for me (but i still remembering my own words), cuz im just learning (even knowing most things the "experts" are talking about).
Learning and being ready to share all i know later, at all knowledge levels.
And i intend to. if everything goes fine, to create great standard tutorial and releases.

But im getting tired...
I see everything messy, missing, and forgotten.

I know the talk: "Theres is no 'standard' and solid releases or tutorials for priston servers development."

But im talking from what im sure about.
That i talk about what i had seen able to do in private servers, nothing exceptional, but functional and "complete" (in itselfs idea).
I even worked on a private server as GM and lately as ADMIN for what was remaining of server (but at the time i was not able to keep on).

I say this cause i dont see so much releases and tutorial as the time passes.

At least for sharing some short things or little information further. (The forum segment don't worth more than the teaching.)
Which talking about information we dont see the the "beginning", "middle" and "end" (on most of things).

I'll not point for something specific but i need to give some examples:


* As the realease containing A full work server/client in Virtual Machine:
Ok! Its working, i've tested. But what about a good brief at post:

"Its a single package which install the system itself (Windows 2003) and the server MPT (same as client) in a virtual machine (used Oracle VirtualBox) which has the settings:

- Memory setted to 2GB (You may change depending on your total memory available)
- (in addition about info network adapter) you will need to change the adapter type to your own.
- And if you have a router, set the Network to NAT to be able to connect to internet
(Its my case, but oddly i have connection to the internet but the servers doesnt connect. And if i change to Bridge i can connect to server [it gives IP: 192.168.x.x] but im not getting enter to any site in net [only stay loading the adress])

And about the server setup in system:

- All it components installed
- Using ODBC
- Nothing changed from the server personal configurations
(Everything is a guess of mine, cuz have no way to know immediately)
- Be sure to change the hotuk ip, of course."


* And don't even found any tutorial debbuging priston tale in Olly (im not talking about show offsets, tutorial for "this" or "that", or even show fiding an offset which is being quoted)
Im talking about show how (at least TRY, show EXAMPLES) to be able to debug for youself and find any codes/offsets which about you are looking for each thing in the game (OF COURSE, when the Strings are not the case!).
Not even a tutorial teaching Olly itself FOR Priston.
Well... maybe i might be too dumb to find...


I'M NOT ASKING FOR MUCH. IM JUST TALKING.

Its not a matter of doing a server working fine and OK, even not a matter of have many resources and tutorials, scattered (i guess this is the word).

Its a matter of make possible to understand the entire server running while learning and getting new stuffs. And open doors to ideas and new useful tutorials and realeases, instead solutions for (the most) same problems.

Thanks n Sorry.



Im actually working on MPT client/server from the release of VirtualMachine (and using it).
It seems the best realease to working on, but seems to have most of things changed in game/server.exes and need to be worked.
I'll try to documment everything i can learn and change about it.

 

[lolken1]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

+1 this made so much sense its liek right now i want to get the ice map working correct and weapons but i have no idea how 2

 

[masterdragon]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

+1 this made so much sense its liek right now i want to get the ice map working correct and weapons but i have no idea how 2

Me too, by now, sorry.
Cause im working on the beginnings of the server (low maps, itens, and etc.).
I wanna remake it from the beginnings, not worried about high lvls.

But when i got there, or if you need some other minor helps, try to ask me.

 

[bobsobol]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

* And don't even found any tutorial debbuging priston tale in Olly (im not talking about show offsets, tutorial for "this" or "that", or even show fiding an offset which is being quoted)
Im talking about show how (at least TRY, show EXAMPLES) to be able to debug for youself and find any codes/offsets which about you are looking for each thing in the game (OF COURSE, when the Strings are not the case!).
Not even a tutorial teaching Olly itself FOR Priston.
Well... maybe i might be too dumb to find...

There are two problems with this:-

1. Using Olly Debug on PT is no different than using any other low-level debugger on any other binary executable. If you're going to be debugging PT in Olly, we have to assume that you know that part already. We aren't an Olly Debug forum, we're a PT forum.
2. You must be registered to see links
   where posted here, and moved to Gregoos' own site so that he could retain better editorial control over them. We still reference them quite often, and it would be *very* difficult for any of us to create what you're asking without being to similar to those.

Or, to put it another way, what are you looking for that those beginners guides don't provide? ^_^

You're right, we need a new generation of guiders. We have had some lovely stuff on the artistic stuff, making models and maps and stuff recently. But none of the code and server admin stuff. Now, I did a lot of that when I started getting really active here, but I don't have the time to spend on it now, and in all honesty, I feel I've done my bit. In fact, Vormav had done a very good job of carrying on where I left off, but I know it's time for him to take a break too.

I'm always happy to help out, but someone else needs to take up the reigns. ^_^

 

[ScreamingFox]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

Bobsobol, who is called the 'warm-hearted', is like the Gandalf of Priston Tale.. But not the one from the movies, i mean the one from the 70's cartoon =D..


All the times i see those codes you guys talk about, for me, is like watching those 'matrix' letters falling down (like bobsobol signature) hehehe


But i think that the concept of exchanging knowledge lies at the very foundation of this kind of forum.. And i also think that the nature of the knowledge is at some of its aspects, alike to the electric force, if it stays held in one place it can fade to the oblivion, so, sharing the knowledge strengthens it..

 

[masterdragon]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

There are two problems with this:-

1. Using Olly Debug on PT is no different than using any other low-level debugger on any other binary executable. If you're going to be debugging PT in Olly, we have to assume that you know that part already. We aren't an Olly Debug forum, we're a PT forum.

I know (its not an Olly Debug forum)...
I only wanted to know how do ppl, who does these tutorials, discover and find offsets related to what we want (and is possible) to change in game.

Well, i got u message, and i forgot to say that i know u did goods around here.
And more others too (at least most of times).

But i had to have done this talk, cause it was what i was felling about here.

Thanks n Sorry.

 

[grimske1]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

even with gregoos' site and tutorials for ollydbg, it is a bit hard to use it on other files then gregoo used for his tutorials. why is this? I know i am not knowing well ollydbg but still.

 

[bobsobol]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

I'd love to know why it's hard to follow too.

Truth is, I suspect Gregoo is closer to my age than many here and I'm pretty sure we both work as IT professionals. For me, that has meant I went through professional IT courses at college and on into uni. When we where young (because I still work in Education, and know that the kids in college aren't taught the same now as when I was there) learning machine code and the internal operations of a CPU where a core fundamental of the course material. So essentially, this stuff was taught in school.

Even then, what was taught of machine code in schools was usually the Motorolla MC68000 processor as used in Apple Macs (real classic Macs now, not you're PowerMac stuff) and Atari STs, Amigas, and even the Sinclair QL which Linus Torvalds wrote his first operating system for. ^_^ It's quite different from a modern x86 32-bit iNTEL PC. But at the same time, it isn't. The principals are the same.

We used to consider writing programs in Pascal, COBOL, Fortran or C and understanding what the compiler had produced in the low level debugger. Compiler errors where common place, and working around a bug in one or other compiler was typically done in machine code, using in-line assembler, or link libraries which where hand crafted in assembler.

From that point, picking up Olly and messing with the code is, literally, child's play. ie. It's what I used to do for fun, when I was a kid.

The problem is, how do you pass that on to kids today, when they don't spend 4hrs a week in school learning under the direction of an enthusiastic teacher? :\

 

[Gregoo]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

When we where young

I'm still young!
I don't know half of the stuff you talk about when you digress about old microprocessors :-D !

I'm not even 30.

 

[bobsobol]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

And that's what you get when you don't ask ASL. XD

Well, I've not actually hit 40 yet, so I'm not the "old git" I proclaim. It just feels like it around here. But I'm closer to 40 than 30.

So I guess you're just wise beyond your years Gregoo. ^_^

Also, maybe you have the middle ground? How would you say the real youths should get their head around the basics of low level code?

 

[telatoro]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

Im agree with you bob , nowdays "kids" doesnt know anything else than "windows" lol . Anyway im also around your age bob, and too working on IT stuff , probably i could find some free time to spent on whatever like did ago on pt, but too im believe that as you bob, the seed was already left for newest generations, and also im lately investing my free time on gf, ps3, some other online games or reading manga & watching anime

btw u forgot name the old and funny Commodore VIC-20 , im also remember the good Z80

 

[SheenBR]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

Releasing everything to everybody has a HUGE impact in the PT environment. Imagine if everyone were rich, or everyone had the best car. Things would become boring. I think we need this kind of "knoledge holding", at least until some point, so we can preserve what we like.
Im not saying I am against sharing stuff, I'm only saying that there is time for everything.

IDK if you guys follow the PT scenario in BR forums, but when the first guy "created" the Battle Point system, for example, it was like, ohh geez I must have this on my server! So, over and over, people started to sell it and eventually it got leaked. Now everybody has it, and all PServers have it aswell. I think you all know, like in economy, once a lot of people posses something, the thing loses its value. The same happened with executables with lvl 150, "fixed" premium itens, item craft, etc etc

I think we shouldnt just do: here, take this executable with all this stuff and use. We should point the direction se he can do it by himself. This way, if you have added Item Craft, lvl 150 or Battle Points, it was done because of you, your effort, so you deserve it totally.

Well, your effort partially, someone had to teach you how to do it, but still, you were the one that had to do the "hand work". You know what I mean, right?

I do agree that some guides are outdated, but you don't have to wait until a moderator does an updated guide. You can do it yourself, help the community!

If you think that there is any bad guide arround here, outdated guide or anything like, give me, bob or DK a PM and we'll see what we can do. :

 

[masterdragon]

Re: Make beginners and intermediates become teachers

Oh my...

Dudes, i know what are u all talking about...

But im not asking to be given all you knowledges to me or something like this.
I just wanna to have the way to it!

Damn!
I have spent about a week or more just trying:
(Spending ALL the time installing, uninstalling, downloading, copying, pasting things...)


- Convert/Import/Export correctly the maps/itens in 3D MAX, which everything becomes black inside it(inside the damn 3D MAX [6,7,8 every version i tried])
*Yes, i have followed those incomplete and vague tutorials/realeases, which has not a tutorial instead:

"Here, this is the tool to do this, that other is to that
bye, see you next time "

*I already did tga reader/bmp reader/smd reader in every damn file of Ricarten Field (example).
(Nothing! The Ducking town look all black inside 3DMax)
(Already tried kpt [posted here] and mpt [mistery] client field folders)
LOOK:

- Quickly Disable/Delete rain function that f*ck annoys me.

- And others little stupid stuffs everyone don't should be worried all about.[/COLOR]



Im not talking to that specific questions (but in general), i talking to have time n work to spend doing my changes, learning (i really wanna read some stuffs about asm, olly and 3dmax to be able to that). And not spend hours and getting tired with things thats already common and OLD!

Im intendig to make a new conception of priston server.
NOT with big changes and resouces! I JUST WANT TO DO THE BEST SETTINGS i can handle only with values and minor stuffs!

Most guys here spend answers/replys and they own time talking too much and giving less solutions.

Whatever, its just a discussion btw.
Don't take my words literally, which u all are used to do.

Thats it!

Thanks n Sorry.

 

[SheenBR]

Well, I can't do much with 3DS, so as I said, if you think that there is any vague/incomplete tutorials not related to 3DS, but PT itself, post the links here and I'll look through them

 

[masterdragon]

Well, I can't do much with 3DS, so as I said, if you think that there is any vague/incomplete tutorials not related to 3DS, but PT itself, post the links here and I'll look through them

- smd/ase converters:
http://forum.ragezone.com/f399/sandurrs-smd-converter-736316/
*Ok, its a realease, but still need information related to use in 3DS [which is it did for])
*but know i know about how use, and its not problem now, AT ALL!
*But still need to know how properly use these 3 (bmp/tga/smd readers):
>If they need to be in same folder, inside and among the map files u want to edit
>Why even when read, .tga files don't show itself like images (like occur with .bmp). Its normal?
>What to know about the path (C:\textures\) given by smd reader, if has some trouble not putting the folder to convert in that path (but, of course giving the right path where actually is the you folder [in my case D:\...\...\])
>Even if a path in a D:\ disk would did some problem converting with smd reader (who knows...)
>If some client have the tga/bmp/smd incompatible with readers/converters (i've tried with ricarten map of these 2:
http://forum.ragezone.com/f399/mpt-server-client-admin-files-875876/ and
http://forum.ragezone.com/f399/client-full-kpt-v2-52-a-923790/

-And when we look to a 3DS tutorial about linking .tga/.bmp/.ase files, there is nothing telling:
*If something inside need to be added or configured (inside 3DS) to properly see the map
*Where .tga and .bmp works inside 3DS:
>Are they read by 3DS? Or need to be imported? If so, how?
(Someone, told me to keep .bmp and .tga (unblocked) in C:\textures\ [but what if i even haven't C: ? XD]

Asking everything of that, cause im always ending like this:

 

[ScreamingFox]

In the case of the maps, just use the PT maps in MAX.. I have downloaded it here at RZ.. =D..

If you want to see the maps (i mean BMPs and TGAs) on the viewport:

-Run that windows 'search' for the BMPs, on the field folder..
-Copy all of those and paste it to a new directory(folder), called c:/textures or whatever..
-Run the same search, but now for the TGAs, and paste them to the same folder..
-Patch the BMPs and TGAs with your favorite patchers..
-Now open the map on MAX.. It will ask you for the textures..
-You point the folder you created and pasted the textures ('use path')..
-Now click on the map and press 'Z' (just to center it on the viewport)
-Press 'M' (will open the material editor)..
-In the material editor, you will see some gray balls (material samples), below those, there are some icons..
-Press the 'icon'(without a proper button) with an eyedropper (PT:'conta-gotas')
-Now click on the map.. It will put the map's material on the material editor..
-Now click on the map's material..
-And then click on the icon (on the material editor) that has a chess board and an lamp bulb (show standard map on viewport)..
-If you still can't see the textures on the map, just select the material and apply it again on the map..
-To apply a material, you must select the object (the map) and then (on the material editor) click on the icon that has a ball pointing to a cube (assign material to selection)..


And i think this is it.. It may have 'more steps' but i tried to describe it in a more simpler way..

 

[masterdragon]

Thanks, it really helps me alot (i guess).

But you can at least tell me why did it occurs?
I mean the "black appearance" of maps in 3DS.

And have no other way to solve it?

Because.. And in case i wanna to edit itens and other things?
Theres no .max of the itens, isn't?

 

[ScreamingFox]

This 'black appearance' is probably the 'normals', in this case you probably have to flip the normals (use the modifier 'Normal' on 3dsmax).. But with those maps on max you wont have this problem..

'Normals' tell the program which way is facing inward and outward on a poly(gon)..

About the items, it is better to create them since they are simple and you wont gain much editing them.. though i have converted some and never had problems..

@edit: To create the items, just create them on a real size scale (1:1 metric system), move the object's (the item's) pivot to where the character would hold it and export as ASE, and thats it =D..

 

[masterdragon]

Thanks ScreamingFox.

Most of things cleared to me now.
One last question (just for ask):

Theres some item template/model released to help create/edit new ones?

PS.:
Its normal can't see the .tga files (like bmp)? even patched?

 

[bobsobol]

I would think that the maps are black because of path inconsistancies or unconverted texture file headers.

To use my converter, drop the folder on it. End of story. If it still misses some files, just drop any and all files which don't show a thumbnail (after you've insalled an explorer thumbnail filter for TGAs, that is) onto it.

The reason paths stuff isn't documented on the converter is because it doesn't convert the paths, it just copies them from the SMD to the ASE, just as the client copies them from the original ASE to the SMD. They are all over the shop, and don't work right in 3DStudio because that's how the original authors made them. Each time they get a new artist (s)he has her own idea about where textures should be stored on her computer. The client doesn't care so much, because it assumes they will all be in the client folders. 3DStudio does care, and expects them to be prescise.

I think the wold would be a wonderful place if nobody had a big care and everybody had lots of money to use as fire lighters. But I'd usually rather be shown how to do something than have it done for me. Most importantly, because I would usually want to do something similar, but not quite the same.

The easiest way for you to achive you basic server, with the alterations you want, is to start with one of the oldest releases (which is why I re-released Operz original) or the newer one Sheen put out. Those have very few custom changes and are a great base for anything you want to do.

If things exist in releases here which there isn't a guide for, we should try to figure out how it's achieved and write a guide for doing, just that one thing. Keep doing that, until everything which is available in any release is also available as a guide. IMHO.