RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MPT *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MPT

[bobsobol]

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Okay, I'm making this post because there has traditionally been considerable cross-over between RaGEZONE and Made In Brazil forums.

We have shared users, developers, tools and guides, releases and developments of Priston Tale.

However, [highlight]these two forums are NOT the same[/highlight].

You may be thinking that the difference is that we post in English, and MPT post in Portuguese, and you are correct. But, that is only the tip of the iceberg.

MPT does not care about the legitimacy of releases, or crediting and citing their sources.
RZ considers this a paramount Netiquette, and people who neglect this key point [highlight]will be flamed![/highlight]
MPT covers both developing PT and hacking / cheating in PT. The last two practices are highly illegal to even discuss on RZ, unless it is for the purpose of preventing such things.
You [highlight]may be banned[/highlight] for such releases and discussions on RZ!
Most RZ users can speak English, to some degree. Many only speak it as a second language, and only a few have to rely completely on automated translators. On MPT almost everyone speaks Brazilian Portuguese. (I was quite out-numbered using automatic translators)
Please note that Google (which most Brazilians seem to use as their automatic translator) doesn't understand Brazilian!

Do you see it on the list? No? Pick Portuguese? That's not the same thing you know...

+ Google is pretty good (not perfect) at British, American, Australian, Canadian or New Zealand English. It's quite surprising how good. It's not very good with Caribbean English, but many Caribbeans know about US, or British English, and what is their own adaptations. (ie. what not to expect of the translator)

- It's not so good at French French vs. various African French, Canadian French etc. (Belgian French comes out 95% okay, and Canadian... 75 - 90%) Brazilian Portuguese is considerably different from Portuguese in Portugal. (like African French, or Caribbean English)

Where can you find a Brazilian automatic translator? Not Google, not Bablefish, not SYSTRANet, not IMTranslator... though they all support Portuguese, none of them support the sub-language Brazilian Portuguese.

Although FreeTranslator will only translate English to other languages and other languages to English, it does support Brazilian Portuguese. So I tended to use this, in conjunction with others to get something Brazilian people can actually understand... you might like to try the same in reverse.

If you want to post here, follow RZ rules and ethics. But also write English that people can understand. Check your translations. [highlight]Don't trust the machine![/highlight]

NOTICE: "você" is not "voce", "máquina" is not "maquina"... most of the translators will give you the finger if you miss off the accents.

Many in Brazil are too lazy to bother typing them, or put them in the wrong places. People who don't speak Portuguese at all will definitely not know where to put them! [highlight]Don't be lazy![/highlight]

 

[SheenBR]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

Here is your translation bob:

Translation to PTBR: (a pedido de bobsobol)

Certo, estou fazendo esse post porque tem uma tradicional "briga" entre os membros da RaGEZONE e MIB.

Nós compartilhamos usuarios, developers, ferramentas e guias, liberações e desenvolvimentos de Priston Tale.

Entretanto, esses dois forums NÃO são o mesmo.

Você pode estar pensando que a diferença é que nós escrevemos em Ingles, e MIB em Português, e você está correto. Mas, essa é apenas a ponta do ice berg.

MIB não liga pela legitimidade das liberações, ou dando os devidos creditos e citando suas fontes.

RZ considera isso uma "falta de etiqueta", e as pessoas que não levam isso em consideração, serão "linxadas!"

MIB cobre tanto desenvolvimento e hack / cheats de PT. Essas duas ultimas praticas são altamentes ilegais até pra discutir na RZ, a não ser que seja para prevenir tais coisas.

Voce pode ser banido por liberar tais coisas ou por criar discussoes sobre isso na RZ.

A maioria dos usuarios da RZ fala Ingles, até certo ponto. Muitos apenas falam como uma segunda linguagem, e somente poucos usam tradutores automatizados. Na MIB, quase todo mundo fala Português. (Dava pra contar no dedo as pessoas - incluindo eu - que usavam tradutores.)
Por favor, perceba que o Google ( que a maioria dos Brazileiros parecem usar como seu tradutor ) não entende Portugês do Brasil!

Você ve ela na lista? Não? Clicou em português? Isso não é o mesmo que voce conheçe...

+ Google é muito bom ( não perfeito ) em Ingles Britanico, Americano, Australiano, Canadense ou Nova Zelandiano. É um tanto surpreendente o quão bom é. Não é muito bom com o ingles do caribe, mas muitos caribenhos sabem Ingles Americano ou Britanico, e essas são suas adaptações.

- Não é muito bom em Frances da França vs. Diversos Frances da Africas, Frances do Canada.. (Frances da Belgica vem 95% certo, e canadense... 75 - 90%) PT BR é consideravalmente diferente do português de Portugal. ( Como Frances Africano, ou Ingles Caribenho.)

Aonde voce pode encontar um tradutor de português do Brazil? não no google, não no babelfish, não no SYSTRANet, não no IMTranslator.. embora eles todos suportem português, nenhuma das sub linguagens é português do brasil.
Embora FreeTranslator traduza sómente Ingles pra outras linguagens e outras para Ingles, ele suporte português do Brasil. Entao eu uso ela, em conjunto com outras ferramentas para gerar um texto que as pessoas possas realmente entender... voce poder gostar de usar ela para fazer o processo reverso.

Se voce quer postar aqui, siga as REGRAS e os CODIGOS DE ÉTICA. Mas tambem, escreva um Ingles que as pessoas possam entender. Cheque suas traduções. NÃO CONFIEM NA MÁQUINA!

NOTA: "você" não é "voce", "máquina" não é "maquina"... a maioria dos tradutores vai te dar a palavra errada se voce errar os acentos.

Muitos no brasil são preguiçosos de ao menos colocar os acentos, ou colocam em lugares errado. Quem não fala português nao irá saber aonde coloca-los. Não sejam preguiçosos!

 

[bobsobol]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

Excellent. Thanks DV. :

It even translates to trash by auto-translator.

Many in the Brazil are lazy of at least put the accents, or put in places erraado. Who naonao go to know where puts-them. speaks portugues goes definitely

This is largely meaningless. Red = didn't translate at all, and Underline, lost all meaning.

from

Muitos no brasil são preguiçosos de ao menos colocar os acentos, ou colocam em lugares erraado. Quem nao fala portugues vai definitivamente nao vão saber aonde coloca-los.

Here red are simple fixes for the translator.

Fixed:-

Muitos no brasil são preguiçosos de ao menos colocar os acentos, ou colocam em lugares errado. Quem não fala português vai definitivamente não vão saber aonde coloca-los.

Now, feed that into auto-translator and get

Many in Brazil are too lazy to at least put the accents, or put in wrong places. Who does not speak Portuguese will definitely will not know where to put them.

Okay, so it produced one too many "will", and it's not worded as any English speaker would put it, but I can understand that.

This, I do whenever I use auto-translator to write in another language. The order (syntax) may not be perfect, but the more accurately you write in your language, and the less you include phrases which are vague, or have many meanings... the more likely something that people can understand will come out.

It might not be "correct", but it just needs to be understandable.

Please!? Thank you. :

 

[SheenBR]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

they are understandable, I just forgot some accents, lolo... I'll correct them now.
Just some gramatical errors, but thats fine, already corrected.

 

[bobsobol]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

No no! It's almost a shame to fix it, because it's how Brazilians write, and it's what trips up the translator so much and means anybody else can't understand a word they are saying. XD

Yes... I have to watch what I put in a translator. In English, it's common for English people to say "of" when they mean "off". Spell-checker doesn't notice, we read it back and it will take four or five re-readings to realise "Bugger, I missed an 'F'".

We write "there", "their" and "they're" wrong all the time. We read them correctly when they are written wrong. They sound the same, they write differently, and they mean completely different things. Put the wrong one in a translator, and it can't make sense of what you are saying.

People understand peoples mistakes. Computers and programs don't. "Garbage in, Garbage out" If you want to auto-translate something, it has to be 100% correct before it goes in.

Often, it needs to avoid complex subjects or cultural references too. So, sometimes I will have to completely re-word something to get anything with meaning out.

"Tip of the iceberg", for example. That's a reference to the Titanic. The auto-translator has no idea what a "Titanic" is, and no idea what "tip of the iceberg" means. XD

It means "looks like a tiny thing, but it's actually a massive thing that could well get you killed when you try to drive over, or through it."

 

[Gregoo]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

And you expect people pasting automatic translator soup on this forum to actually read this post ?

I'm pretty sure they don't give two flying f***s and they'll keep doing it .

 

[bobsobol]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

Sorry Gregoo. I thought I had included it in the post, but it seems I only said it to DV when I asked him to write a Brazilian Portuguese "human" translation. So at least they have no excuse not to understand.

No. I don't expect they will read it before "pasting automatic translator soup". (nice one)

But I often post, in a clean thread, anything I'm bored of repeating with slight variation. I'll include everything I have said in different places on the same subject so when I see it again, I can just link to the existing exposé.

Also... I'm British, so I rely on those "automatic translators" quite a bit. Even in second languages I surpass most of my countrymen in, the English suck at "second" languages, (you are no doubt aware of this) so "king of the scrap heap" this is nothing to be proud of.

I endeavour to be understood, if not grammatically correct by their use. That's all I ask of anyone else. In that respect, I hope I can give people a few pointers.

I can see regulars here who do use them, and those for whom English is a "second" language, but one they need no machine assistance with. (like your good self)

Both are welcome, provided the later understand how to use the machine translator. :

The urgency of this thread, and it's aim at Brazilians, as opposed to Chinese, Spanish, Viet etc. is that M.I.B. has been "down" for some time now, and I suspect the influx of poor auto-translations is partially due to this.

 

[SheenBR]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

If you dont have any comments why did you post? Did you even READ the whole post? If yes, I think you misunderstood its purporse. Tip: Read it again, and again, untill you understand it.
This forum isn't the same sh**hole that MIB was, and will never be. Please, be aware of that.

@bob
Not "down for sometime", its down for goood, if you know what I mean (devil face)

 

[Gregoo]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

The thing is that I didn't even notice the post first. I had never read it but it wasn't in bold like other new posts.
Maybe you could ask a mod to merge the 2 first posts with the pinned rule topic. People still won't read it but at least flaming at them will be legitimate tt1: .

Oh and please no "nice job for demoding me" answer, you know who you are : .

 

[Gregoo]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

^
What are you talking about ?

 

[SheenBR]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

Stop the flame war, DK, clean this thread please.

 

[bobsobol]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

Chill guys. You are starting to argue over something about which you agree, for different reasons.

Gregoo is making the point that he has noticed that no mod has stickied this thread, or merged it with the existing rules you set up DV.

(yes, I've also noticed that the main thread does not Embolden many new or updated threads I have not read Gregoo. I follow the date, and when I last visited the forum manually in those cases)

He "jibes" you DV.

This is more common in Northern Europe, and among "African Americans" as a term of endearment. (like "yo momma" jokes) He Trusts "his friend" will not take offence that he knows what winds him up and taunts him with it. I know Gregoo is French, but sometimes I could swear he where Norwegian, and I hope no offence is taken by that.

He knows you, DV, well enough to know your usual response and proves he doesn't need to hear it again. In fact, he will say it for you. tt1:

And Gregoo, DV is quoting the reason for his demotion. His religious devotions did not allow him to respond sympathetically to a certain minority group, (stated above) and his own sense of humour about the subject was not taken "jokingly" by the person it was said to, or by the Admins.

We all know there needs to be more "round the clock" moderation here, and DKh20 is working hard to get that pushed through. He does his job well, but cannot always perform it in a timely manner. He is only one man.

I have said

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, without prejudiced, and with the benefit of the majority in mind. If need be, and with the acceptance of others.

But MeNTAL has... err... "other things" on his mind right now. (DKh20 knows what I mean by that, and anyone who is in contact with MeNTAL outside RZ will too, but I suspect I am in a minority there)

--- EDIT ---
Back on the topic of "understandable translation" anyone trying to work out what an English word may mean in any particular context should check out

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. It's an amazing way of finding all the different connotations our "too commonly used with different meanings" words might be relating to. (we have far too many of them)

Sometimes it also helps me figure out why the auto-translator is not understanding what I am trying to tell it.

Sadly, I don't know anything that can distinguish different forms of "sarcasm", or cultures surrounding "jest". I've even found some German "comedy" that I found funny, though that is popularly thought to be a realm in which Germans are found lacking.

I've also read a "jokes" made by

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in German, on a German TV show translated into English (where the comment looses all it's humour and just becomes offensive) and the most offensive part of the translation was then published in British newspapers completely out-of-context.

Yea, I watched the original interview, and know enough German to ignore the sub-titles and giggled at the joke.

Very sad. The chap (not one of my favourite drivers) has a fantastic sense of humour, in any language. But jokes don't translate well without considerable adaptation.

 

[Gregoo]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

I still don't understand why my post triggered an answer with "gay", "fool", and "stop flaming".

I'm not attacking anybody.
I'm not talking about homosexual people.
I'm not starting a flame war.

I'm just stating that a moderator should be noticed about IF you want it to be merged with the existing rule topic.

Then I'm joking about the fact that a few times when an advertisement/incorrect post was spotted, sheen answered "good job for demoding me, RZ!".
And since the pinned rule post was made by him, this post was a good candidate for this kind of answer.

This is not even an argumentation bob. I don't understand his answer filled with anger...

I don't know the reasons why you were stripped from your moderator position DV, I don't think it was made public and frankly I couldn't care less.

But yeah I'll be more cautious in my answers in the future because some people here lack sense of humor, sad.
I'll just make the dullest posts ever for them.
No pun, no fun, but no misunderstanding.

PS: Maybe maybe, but I went back to the 17th century and it's still french blood. Maybe I have Viking ancestors! And an axe and a skull burried in my backyard! Arrrrr! tt1: !

 

[bobsobol]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

I still don't understand why my post triggered an answer with "gay", "fool", and "stop flaming".

• GAY = The reason DV was De-modded.
• fool = another word for jest, an unintentional acknowledgement of your joke.
  
• flaming = the mis-understanding I'm trying to correct.

This is not even an argumentation bob. I don't understand his answer filled with anger...

Agreed. The aggression is due to the misunderstanding.

But yeah I'll be more cautious in my answers in the future because some people here lack sense of humor, sad.
I'll just make the dullest posts ever for them.
No pun, no fun, but no misunderstanding.

lol

PS: Maybe maybe, but I went back to the 17th century and it's still french blood. Maybe I have Viking ancestors! And an axe and a skull burried in my backyard! Arrrrr! tt1: !

Double lol.

Nice, defuse. Yea, I "got" the joke, and the Normans descended from the Vikings and got all over Europe and started the first "Crusades" which was their final downfall. I certainly know my "real" sirname is derived from the name of a Viking longboat Captain. (leader / headman)

Having said that, the Saxsons where also originally Northern Europeans too. So... It's a humour I'm familiar with, and also familiar with how badly it is taken (for example) in the Mediterranean, Middle East or Eastern Europe.

I would expect Mexicans (again, as an example) to be even more offended by it than the Spanish, who encounter it more from other European tourists.

But it's an extended example of good translations taking on the wrong meaning because of cultural differences.:

 

[adonaifrota]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

It obliged by the hint, now alone I am going to use the, Free Translation.

 

[bobsobol]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

Good show adonaifrota. However, I would not use Free Translator "alone". (only) I would always use in conjunction with another.

Here is how I work.

Write (as clearly as possible) in my language + Tranlator1 = Destination Language

Then

Destination Language + Translator2 = Original language?

Now I can see what no longer makes sense.

If I only use one translation program, it may un-encrypt information it has garbled. If I use two different tools, the chances of them performing the reverse operation and getting the exact same source are reduced. But if I can still read what the second program understood of the first programs output... then there is a better chance a person will understand the automatic translation.

It's still not perfect. I don't expect anything short of paying a person to be perfect. Many religions don't even trust people to translate their sacred texts and not loose meaning, so we can't ask too much of a stupid machine.

 

[SheenBR]

Re: RaGEZONE *NÃO* é a MIB *** IMPORTANT *** RaGEZONE is *NOT* MIB

I thought you were atttacking me. If not, i'm sorry.
And I was dmoded becaouse in off topic sections, a thread like "Is begin gay a choice or not", I said it was a disease and they should see a doctor. Then everybody got angry and I was dmoded. And, I couldnt care less too.