Is there such thing as vectorless? Are AC currents proof of a vectorless quantity?

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  1. #1
    Gamma Justice For All is offline
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    Is there such thing as vectorless? Are AC currents proof of a vectorless quantity?


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    There are 2 types of currents when it comes to electricity, DC and AC.

    AC stands for Alternating Current and DC stands for Direct Current.

    In a Direct Current (DC) battery for instance, the electricity flows from a + (positive) to a - (negative) source, or in other words it flows in one direction from one place to another. With an Alternating Current (AC), the electricity flows back and forth reversing its direction periodically.

    Now let's take a look at what a vector is in mathematics/physics. A vector is something that has magnitude and direction. Magnitude is another word for 'size' and direction is the motion of an object in relation to where it is traveling. So a DC current has a vector from + to -, but what about an AC current, if it is alternating back and forth? Does everything in the universe have a vector? In relation to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, it is impossible to know the exact location of anything at any given point in time, so does an AC current have a vector? Or any current for that matter?

    If something is alternating back and forth, does it have a vector or magnitude of direction? If so, it is only temporary until it reverses its course and changes direction. Say for example my vector (or direction of travel) is south at 2 MPH - then I travel north at 2 MPH, and repeat this infinitesimally, does my 'Alternating Current' (or better put Alternating Direction) have a vector? If so, does it only occur temporarily? If not, than I am vectorless, or I possess no magnitude of direction in spacetime permanently. How can this be possible? Seems rather self-contradictory to me.

    In order for something to exist, it has to have a location is space as-well as time.

    So in other words, a vector.

    But with something that alternates, I.E an Alternating Current, is it vectorless?

    Or does it exist in physical spacetime?


  2. #2
    ◝(⁰▿⁰)◜Smile◝ (⁰▿⁰)◜ Taiga is offline
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    Re: Is there such thing as vectorless? Are AC currents proof of a vectorless quantity

    Fundamentals of Electricity learns your that AC flows in a sine wave.
    Everything has a vector even if it is 'not moving' because it will be a zero length vector.
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  3. #3
    Gamma Justice For All is offline
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    Re: Is there such thing as vectorless? Are AC currents proof of a vectorless quantity

    Sine-waves could still be considered vectorless could they not?

    If something is oscillating and travelling in a rhetorical pattern than it is has only a temporary vector. Something that travels in a fluent non-rhetorical path has a 'permanent' vector and can be defined at a different point in space and time at any given time - while an oscillating rhetorical path has only temporary or repeating vectors.

  4. #4
    ◝(⁰▿⁰)◜Smile◝ (⁰▿⁰)◜ Taiga is offline
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    Re: Is there such thing as vectorless? Are AC currents proof of a vectorless quantity

    Quote Originally Posted by Justice For All View Post
    Sine-waves could still be considered vectorless could they not?
    Nope.
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  5. #5
    Gamma Justice For All is offline
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    Re: Is there such thing as vectorless? Are AC currents proof of a vectorless quantity

    Quote Originally Posted by Taiga View Post
    Nope.
    Would you mind providing valid information to back up your assertion rather than a one word response?

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  6. #6
    ◝(⁰▿⁰)◜Smile◝ (⁰▿⁰)◜ Taiga is offline
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    Re: Is there such thing as vectorless? Are AC currents proof of a vectorless quantity

    It isn't even a vector, Wikipedia explains it perfectly.
    A sine wave or sinusoid is a mathematical curve that describes a smooth repetitive oscillation. A sine wave is a continuous wave. It is named after the function sine, of which it is the graph. It occurs often in pure and applied mathematics, as well as physics, engineering, signal processing and many other fields.
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  7. #7
    Gamma Justice For All is offline
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    Re: Is there such thing as vectorless? Are AC currents proof of a vectorless quantity

    Quote Originally Posted by Taiga View Post
    It isn't even a vector, Wikipedia explains it perfectly.
    A vector, Euclidean vector in this case, is something that has magnitude and direction, okay a sine wave is not vectorless, I guess, but is something for example that has a rhetorical pattern or path vectorless in the sense of having a different defined point in space and time - rather than a repeating vector or point in space and time?

  8. #8
    Non Omnis Moriar Kreeate is offline
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    Re: Is there such thing as vectorless? Are AC currents proof of a vectorless quantity

    At the quantum level, none of this is 'exactly' relevant.
    Quantum science is in its infancy and there are many, many things we simply don't know.
    That being said, the science behind this is being developed, prodded and scrutinized as we speak.
    THAT is what is of importance to me right now.

    We could debate quantum effects or vectors for a hundred years without reaching a coherent conclusion. Modern science is onnit. Let's see where it goes.
    Last edited by Kreeate; 02-08-17 at 07:37 PM.
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  9. #9
    Deep thoughts Is there such thing as vectorless? Are AC currents proof of a vectorless quantity? Joopie is offline
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    Re: Is there such thing as vectorless? Are AC currents proof of a vectorless quantity

    Kinda late to the party, but AC do have vectors. I like to work them out as V on the Y axle and I on the X, the image is the other way around. The image shows the relation between the current and voltage as a sine wave, but also as a vector. This sine wave can be seen by using an oscilloscope.



    I can understand why you think AC is vectorless, but it really isn't. Every point at the sine wave you can make a vector diagram out of it, but doing so is a waste of time and not practicle. Everyone uses Vrms (voltage root-mean-squared) for calculations and even multimeters (volt meters?) gives you that value. Vrms is like the average value (kuch) over time, in this case: half of a sine wave (like the one in the image).

    Fun fact: old KWatt meters can't measure inductive or capacitive power. So by adding coils or capacitors at your place you can reduce your energy bill (I do not recommend this).




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