Just a little note for server devs

[TeenTimTinTin]

Hi. I'm... nobody. Just someone who hasn't played Flyff in more than 2 years.

I don't dedicate myself to the game anymore but I check private servers from time to time. And everytime I end disappointed.
No, there are objectively great servers with active communities that trump the officials. It's just they don't really appeal to people like me. We had our reasons for sticking to the officials regardless of them becoming crap since Version 11 kicked in.
I came here to post in behalf former players who share my opinion and discussed with me before I decided to give posting this a try.
We don't like:
-Banalizing the effort of levelling and becoming a Hero due 20x+ exp rates.
-Seeing the durability of the game being dependant on how many levels beyond 150-H there are or how many times we undergo 'Rebirth'.
-Having the game we know as a PvE driven MMORPG being forced into something entirely PvP based.
-Having 80% of the game's content skipped because getting to 121-H+ is so quick doing the earlier content is a waste of time.
-Seeing characters dealing 200k+ melee damage consistently in Sieges due custom sets and items added on top of the game's already broken content.
-And we certainly don't care for systems that look completely out of place in Flyff but are added because the local dev likes this other game and wants to copy it over on his Flyff server.

Now you must be wondering: "Yeah? Well, sounds like you want to play the offcials."
But no we don't.
Because we also don't like:

-Insulting items such as Rudolph Jewelry Set, Scroll of Unbind and Q-Amps killing the point of effort and dedication in the game.
-Ultra inflated economy Gala doesn't gives a rat's butt about since this motivates people to resort to CS reselling as the only way to make money fast.
-Countless bugs that could have been easily fixed but never are so.
-Statted fashion items, a concept that should have NEVER been added to the game.
-A dumbass lazy community that thinks balance is about making every class powerhouses that can solo anything.
-Game Masters that are never online or interacting with the community in-game.
-Useless skills and content that COULD have been much better with few tweaks


The point I'm trying to make is there are people out there who would rather simply play a fixed tweaked "official" Flyff rather than a private server filled with innovative and crazy custom features. A Flyff with emphasys on rewarding effort over laziness. Cooperation over solo play. And above all about balancing things by scaling DOWN rather than BOOSTING everyone the same.
Flyff has gotten too easy. Too many consumables. Too much overpowered gear and stat boosting content that obliterates the PvE content.
And since it's a PvE driven game... that is a huge problem.

I came up with a list of what the 'dream server' for this kind of people would be. I made a list, showed it to others, discussed, removed and added items. I can't say I showed it to 100+ people, but rather closer to 40 or so.
I doubt we're the only 40 people in the whole world who would want to play in a server like this.


It's a huge read and I don't really expect anyone to read everything. I don't expect anyone to look and think "Hum! I think I'll create a server with those exact changes!". I just hope somebody gets the general idea and gives it a try.
Because even thought people are often claiming "nobody would want to play in a server like that" there sure weren't any similar servers ever going live.

And before anyone asks, none of us actually codes or would manage to maintain a server like this to stay stable and more importantly safe. Besides I'm the only one who actually decided to try leaving this idea here.

Dungeons:
Increase the likelihood of bosses dropping weapons (or set parts depending on the boss). They should always drop at least one.
Apply cooldown for all instanced dungeons. Cooldown depends on the dungeon.
Dreadpet dungeons to have an use. The bosses will drop at least one rare weapon or set part most of the time they're defeated. (Lv15, 30 or 45, depends on the boss)
Volcane has a proper entrance by the volcanic area in Darkon 3.
Every dungeon has their respective treasure chests scattered about. They may give one of several in a list. Bigger chests wield better items. Ressurrection Scrolls, Smelting, Blessing, Buff Pet Transformation or Keys, etc.


Items:
Q, R and P Amplification Scrolls are removed.
ES Amplification Scrolls can no longer be stacked.
Stat-boosting consumables are categorized. Players can no longer activate more than one buff item of the same category.
Remantis Laccotte gets a seperate 1 minute cooldown. Not sold as CS, and very rarely obtained in-game through events or prizes.
Cloaks, fashion items and glasses have their stats removed. Obtained via donation or events.
Pick-up pets are via donation. Except Doggy which is obtained in-game for free.
Some CS such as Ressurrection and Blessing scrolls are found inside dungeons in treasure chests.
Buff pet beads are permanent and obtained as quest rewards. They may be added or removed as the player sees fit. The better ones are obtained as boss drops.
Scroll of Velocity, Scroll of Enhanced Party Skill Range, Holy Scroll and Scroll of Unbind are removed from the game.
Antidote (now renamed Cure Potion) is added to the NPCs. And yes they work.
Debuffer put back in the game as a drop. Functional but not common to find.
Drop system changed to make it so some of the possible drops vary according to the monster species rather than just their level. (Mostly equipment)
Kaillun consumables added to the NPCs.
Level 80+ blue equipment added to the NPCs.


Quests:
Office quests are auto-completed when the player collects the necessary items.
Daily exp quests that reset every 24 hours. They may get replaced now and then, but until then are fixed for every X levels gap.
General or scenario quests reward the player with not only exp and/or penya, but also untradeable items ranging from simple recovery crap to equipment, timed CS, Cloaks, Scrolls, etc.
Quests are the main source of penya outside of items and equipment dropped by monsters. They may have their amount increased to reflect on that.
New general quests and quests chain added for level 45+ characters to tone the grind for exp down significantly.
Quests revolving around the 'former premium areas' are added.
Added the never used NPC music during quest dialog.
The quest "Puppy Yorrn" rewards players with a free Doggy pick-up pet. For different pets they need to donate (or obtain them via events) as pets share the same exact function.


Balance:
Complete overhaul of weapon and set effects to tone down the ridiculous overkill power characters have with them and motivate players to cooperate in parties of more than 2.
Characters are no longer crit gods everywhere and block rate is no longer capped easily.
I know it sounds stupid to be so vague and utopian about this topic but skills and equipment overhaul is something that would need a ginormous list for just something such as "I wish" post.


PvP:
Scale damage down to make PvP less about killing others in a few seconds.
Implement copies of the regular arena for specific level ranges. All arenas accessible via Arena Manager.
Decrease the PK points penalty to 1% per kill instead of the current 5.
Karma + PK ridding quest changed to reflect on the character's level. The lowest the level, the cheapest it is to summon and easiest to complete the angel's bar. Auto-completes itself when the angel is fully levelled.
Red named player doesn't respawns in a fixed area of the continent when killed, to avoid being camped by wannabe heroes.
Guild Siege rewards revamped. This includes 1vs1 Sieges.


Upgrade:
Protection scrolls are removed.
Sucess rates are significantly increased.
Non ultimate revert by -1 instead of breaking.
Ultimate weapons may break. It's supposed to be risky.
Elemental Upgrade never breaks the weapon upon failure.
Element Change Scrolls are found in-game as very rare drops/treasure chests/quest rewards.
Piercing suits is safe up to 0/1. Piercing weapons up to 0/3.


Cards:
Success rate of converting cards have increased proportionally to their type.
3% and 10% cards are removed.
Likewise D cards and S cards are removed.
4%, 7%, B and A cards are dropped exclusively from giants and bosses.


Donation items:
Vanity items such as fashion and option to dye fashion items and vehicles.
Pick-up pets that not "Doggy".
1, 15 and 30 day Full Shout.
ES Amplification Scrolls.
Donation items are not tradeable to motivate players to donate. +50% exp gain is hardly balance breaking when the whole point of the server would be to motivate people to level by questing. The scroll is there for those who insist on grinding instead.


Housing:
Furniture and Guild House teleporter are obtained exclusively through GMs in Guild based events.
All furniture of the same type give the same stats regardless of design but their duration (as well as "Bubble Time"'s) depends on the Bubble Time bar. Idling or logging off within the Guild HQ will extend their buff's duration.
Housing items are permanent.


Collecting:
Cogs have actual uses in some events and unique weapon craft.


Market:
Players can put up to 30 items on sale.
Other players can choose the amount they want to buy instead of whole stacks.
Tax stays. Player must pay them everytime he/she puts an item on sale.
The market is connected to every town.


Lord System:
An NPC is publicly available for players to check logs with amounts received by the elected Lord and what the current total is.
A pop-up will remind players upon logging in election day in case there are any candidates.
The cost of exp and drop Lord skills are decreased by half. Their durations tripled.


Misc:
Lodelight return to the game and are added to new areas.
Quest items go to the quest tab. Not just untradeable ones.
Likewise, every fashion item goes to the fashion tab, even wigs.
Traseia is renamed to Rartesia as it should have been before the moronic name change in eFlyff.
Same for Harmonin (Shaduwar) and Estia Canyon (Valley of the Risen).
Coral Island, Azria, Rartesia and Dark Rartesia are acessible without use of CS tickets. Players complete quests to unlock access to them via a new NPC in each town's station platforms. (Those with airships docked in them) A small fee is paid for the travel. The NPCs with their respective airships are also found at the spawn point of those former premium areas.
The premium areas don't have crazy drop chances anymore. They're there for the exp and peaceful massive spawns instead.
Most but not all items stack to 9999.
"Glow" and "Flying effect" are added back.
Unique weapon craft system is revamped. List of required materials is increased (varies with the type (guardian, historic, etc) of the weapon) and success rate is very high. Does not includes dungeon weapons.
Durability system is put back.
Clockworks can be fought once every 48 hours by the same guild. No need to disband and make a new one to retake the requirements.

I thought there had more to talk about but taking a good look at the list this is probably enough for the point of this. After all this will probably go through deaf ears. I suppose we're in the minority who still cares about Flyff (some more and some less though) and doesn't likes the current approach of private servers. The rest already moved on for other games.


If you read at least half of what I wrote, thank you very much.

 

[raventh1984]

Hmm its sure is on long text to read but i enjoyed it.

Some things i can agree with some things not.

For example
Scroll of Velocity, Scroll of Enhanced Party Skill Range, Holy Scroll and Scroll of Unbind are removed from the game.

Why remove those? Give me an good reason. At least for the Unbind scroll. If you remove it from the game then what is the point of soul linked items you cant get rid off.

 

[Fenris]

@RavenTh: Velocity Scroll = lots of speed and adds jump height. No need for it to add as much as it doesn't. Scroll of unbind = Only real good thing of a Scroll of Unbind is that it can act like a penya sink but then again, I like the fact that people couldn't unbind items.

@OP:

I couldn't agree on many of the listed things, but I could agree on the basics. For example, I agree that the current Rebirth - and Leveling is terrible. PvM is removed from the game and PvP is greatly pushed. What happens to PvP? No real changes since a lot of people are too lazy to even balance PvP. More stats = More balance apparently. However, most FlyFF content is actually terrible and the only reason people would like it is nostalgia. I'd rather see whole new systems that actually work towards the low rate custom world that could be there. Ie: PartyFinder -> Shouldn't be needed. Someone just did this correctly and actually made an Lfg Instance grouper. Props to you know who you are.

I think most of the stuff mentioned is old school when we're entering new ages and there's a lot of simple and extreme edits to current systems that could increase gameplay fun drastically.

 

[Gravious]

Agree with you mostly. I have my mind on a similar sort of server that isn't easy to play.

 

[Mootie]

This post has a few good points, but overall it comes off as another annoying rant about how flyff used to be so great and the new updates made it go to poop. On top of this, you seem to believe you somehow speak for an entire community when you clearly cannot understand the basic concepts of what makes an MMORPG. This list seems like an incoherent list of updates with no centralized concept other than "flyff was good back in the good ol' days, pls make it that way again".

Refer to this post for some of the points I've made regarding this:
http://forum.ragezone.com/f456/days-private-servers-past-987012-post7988075/#post7988075


It aint easy to get a player economy going using all the tricks in the book to attract the majority of the population. How do you expect to get an economy going by extending a part of the game 90%+ of the player base find to be very boring? You cant have an MMO without it being massive. Your server might be very balanced and have good ideas etc, but without at least 50 players online at all times, your game will be far more boring than officials.

That being said, the ideas I like(that aren't super obvious):

Stat-boosting consumables are categorized. Players can no longer activate more than one buff item of the same category.
Characters are no longer crit gods everywhere and block rate is no longer capped easily.
The premium areas don't have crazy drop chances anymore. They're there for the exp and peaceful massive spawns instead.


On a side note, these threads are Ducking annoying. Make a thread with a central idea in depth rather than a tl;dr list of contradicting concepts that haven't been though through properly.

 

[TeenTimTinTin]

There's a reason soul-linked items in other MMOs are permanently soul-linked.
Players are supposed to deal with having to farm the weapons. If you want to sell you'd better not equip it ever. It keeps the value of the weapons from dropping too fast.
Items like Holy Scrolls sort of defeat the purpose of needing skills or partners who remove debuffs.
I don't know how well private server developers handle the game's speed boosts. But in the officials it's quite apparent large speed boosts cause a bunch of position bug issues. That's the problem with things like Velocity.

This post has a few good points, but overall it comes off as another annoying rant about how flyff used to be so great and the new updates made it go to poop. On top of this, you seem to believe you somehow speak for an entire community when you clearly cannot understand the basic concepts of what makes an MMORPG. This list seems like an incoherent list of updates with no centralized concept other than "flyff was good back in the good ol' days, pls make it that way again".

Refer to this post for some of the points I've made regarding this:
http://forum.ragezone.com/f456/days-private-servers-past-987012-post7988075/#post7988075


It aint easy to get a player economy going using all the tricks in the book to attract the majority of the population. How do you expect to get an economy going by extending a part of the game 90%+ of the player base find to be very boring? You cant have an MMO without it being massive. Your server might be very balanced and have good ideas etc, but without at least 50 players online at all times, your game will be far more boring than officials.

That being said, the ideas I like(that aren't super obvious):

Stat-boosting consumables are categorized. Players can no longer activate more than one buff item of the same category.
Characters are no longer crit gods everywhere and block rate is no longer capped easily.
The premium areas don't have crazy drop chances anymore. They're there for the exp and peaceful massive spawns instead.


On a side note, these threads are Ducking annoying. Make a thread with a central idea in depth rather than a tl;dr list of contradicting concepts that haven't been though through properly.

I didn't say I was speaking for the entire community. I only said I formulated the list with feedback from other people. (About 40) And that I seriously doubt we're the only people in the whole world who like at least parts of it.

And I know without a good number of active players many of the ideas don't work. I suppose making certain things easier to help the economy to start temporarily wouldn't be a bad idea, but this list was made over what the current Flyff is.

This isn't about 'going old-school'. Most of us play other games. And many of the proposed ideas are actually based on tendencies present in games like Flyff released after 2010.
To begin with if it was about going old-school a removal of quests would be in order, because old-school MMORPGs are about grinding hardcore and on your own rather than getting help from quests.

The point of this topic wasn't to 'whine' but rather to express despide the fact private server developers can get things done while gala labs apparently cannot, not many of them seem to be willing to simply make a 'fixed version' of the normal game and then update it from there. Instead most servers resort to boost things further and just have everyone do pvp/siege forever after conquering the newest custom dungeon and equipment in one week.

Again, no offense. There are enough people playing servers like that so there clearly is a high demand for that sort of playstile. But there are people who would rather want something more hardcore, with less handholding.


Bottom line, if anyone is willing, just try to do something that appeals to the less lazy side of Flyff's playerbase. The side that doesn't foams if his favorite class can't solo something.

 

[Fur Zi]

I agree with some of these, however, it goes like this.

xx% prefer custom, whilst the remaining % prefer following the 'true' roots of Flyff.

It's very difficult for developers and administrators to satisfy both. I don't think one server has done that. It comes down to personal preference of the developers or staff, the players just have to role with it.
The Flyff scene I doubt will ever be perfect, they'll always be unbalanced items, systems, skills, etc.

"-Insulting items such as Rudolph Jewelry Set, Scroll of Unbind and Q-Amps killing the point of effort and dedication in the game."

Rudolph Jewellery Sets were only available at first to a selected number of people who were willing to spend around a thousand dollars in order to get this, or spend most of their Penya. (In regards to e-flyff) I think they'd deserve it if they were willing to spend a poop load of cash. It'd be seen as irrelevant now in the context of p-servers as any person with basic knowledge can figure out how to edit the stats of jewels, even make it more balanced.

I agree that Q-Amps killed the fun of levelling, but then again in the perspective of the e-flyff developers this meant lots, and lots of money (same thing for Rudolph/Snobell set). For pservers, q-amps would be somewhat useless, so why would that be considered intimidating? However I would further clarify that greed indeed ruined the fun of flyff, but it was never really fun to begin with. Not many people enjoy sitting in a chair clicking all day in order to level. Q-Amps ultimately fast-tracked the process, making them spend more time upgrading their armour, weapons, spending time in the arena socialising, etc.

Scroll of Unbind, In my opinion was a waste of time implementing into the official source. It's irrelevant having an item that is 'soul' linked, which is MEANT to remain with the player, under all circumstances if there's a scroll which enables a player to end that 'link'.

-Game Masters that are never online or interacting with the community in-game.
How is this our problem? Give them credit, they do (or at least use to) a lot more work than you think.

It all comes down to personal preference, some like flyff the exact way the original developers did it, some prefer fully custom, some half/half.

 

[kloklojul]

I really like the idea , in fact i already set a server with a complete overhaule with most of the changes you mentioned, but my goal was to create a 4-player co op server (since we are a group of 4 people (who would have thought of that, eh ? ) who are not satisfied with the current flyff development) after weeks of playing we are far from onehitting the leveling mobs or each other in the arena. We changed the soul binding scroll into a buff scroll that permabuffs your next Soul-Linked weapon depending on the upgrades the weapon had and the level difference. It was a real pain in the arse to give flyff such a big overhaul and to be honest i don't know in how far these changes can be applied on a big community.