Casting and Interval Cap

[nofxpunkerbrian]

The next few weeks I am going to be working on patching up the gs binary file so I can lower the cap of casting and interval. I have been working on skills as well just messing around so I have a good grasp of what to do in editing stats etc.

Right now insta-cast is a big issue for classes especially WF and MG it ruins balance in pvp and also ruins the community base on class differentiality(if thats how u spell it). Your input towards what you think the limit should be would help my testing purposes.

Thanks

 

[Misonia]

Something around -55 / -60 ct would be good enough

3.00 for interval

 

[lotus55]

5.0 works in the original, the only way to kill any class is to physically handle, ax damage more your speed is not satisfactory. Just avoid hitting 5.0 without chi.

About Bug Cast, never let a possible class to have 74% MG Buga with skill. and 51% with pot. Thus achieving instant cast.

My server is possible in both, but the player has to use to get lower sets.

 

[avalanche3]

Still APS and insta cast shouldn't be the problem with well designed server, because it would be impossible with the available gear. What I am looking for is the possibility of adjusting skills. Also I heard that one RU server has 79 skills but I haven't checked that

 

[nofxpunkerbrian]

Insta-Cast is always possible doesnt matter on how poorly or well designed it is. I am capping it so that it can never be possible.

 

[BloodRage]

In PW MAX we limited Base aps to 2.50 for non EA classes and max cast can be a maximum high of 69. Anything more than that causes imba. We controlled both aps and cast so no one can get more than that.

 

[343]

See I was initially thinking APS was a problem too, can't say I've put much thought (honestly) into casting (since I don't really do magic classes =\), I have recently been realizing / thinking about the fact that it's not really APS itself that seems to be the problem.

My current thoughts, on APS at least. The actual problem at hand is being able to "perma-spark" since chi is built so fast AT 5.0 APS. So I figure the absolute best fix would be to rebuild the whole chi building system. Well pretty highly un-likely, I used to think the next best thing would be changing the APS cap (from 5.0 to something like 3.0), but figured "wait a minute" the main actual problem at hand isn't the fact that this game's initial design implemented a 5.0 APS cap, and how widely abused it is now -- to "PERMA-SPARK" and that's the main problem at hand. I am surely thinking -- there's NO way the developers intended for people to do unlimited (500)/700% dmg, 25% dmg reduction, and every 15 seconds receive 20% hp regain and 3 seconds invulnerability.

Well you'll also notice the spark skills are (probably) the ONLY skills that don't have, what, a COOL-DOWN TIMER !

Personally I (now) think this would actually be the BEST resolution to the "APS problem", add/increase the cool-down timer for triple spark to be 60 seconds... with the timer at precisely 60 seconds ALL players regardless of APS will be able to spark at the same time, whether you're an ax hammer barb/bm, crossbow archer, or a 5.0 aps bm/whatever... I've tested over and over and 60 seconds seems to be a PERFECT flat figure.

Now my only question is (not being a magic based player myself) how would or wouldn't this 'fix' any problems with 'casters' ?

I was also thinking about the official game, and why they (probably) NEVER will do something like change the APS 'cap' -- because way too many cat 5.0 abusers would QQ and quit (and ofc they don't want that, but not like I would give two shits). In addition it's not really the problem at hand; and I think one of the best two fixes would be to A) rebuild the whole chi building system (which will also never happen, probably just because it's "too much to do/too much work"), or the easiest option -- ADD A Ducking COOL DOWN TIMER TO SPARK =\

I also realize, 'fixing' it by changing / adding a cool-down timer to triple spark will still give any 3.0 - 5.0 APS players the advantage of building chi at a much faster rate than other characters. So they will, therefore, be capable of using other skills that require chi, and/or sparks earlier than those characters. I however think that this is still the best idea because at least then the player actually has to THINK about their playing ('strategy') opposed to just spamming APS and permasparking for unlimited 500/700% damage, with 25% damage reduction, and every 3 seconds getting a 20% regain to HP and 3 seconds of invincibility !

So, please let me know what you think of this idea :

---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 PM ----------

Also... this is a very important issue to me personally, and I believe the community as a whole, and the games longevity. So, at least for now, this discussion is getting STICKY ! :

 

[renan7899]

Good luck brian, everyone will appreciate the fix for non-cast. That's really boring -.- xD

 

[Romulan]

I already imagine the players that come from pwi: "oh no wtf with the cooldown of the spark? : "

So no I'll probably won't use that fix. It will be more raging from players...

 

[avalanche3]

it's not a big deal with APS or insta cast... It all comes to knowledge of the game. Problem is caused by bad designing of the gear, if one add too much -cast or -interval.

Things that can help to disable insta cast is not giving free crafting mats, removing possibility of crafting 100+ NPC gear, that comes always with 3 addons - adding custom gear instead but with less than -71% including additional possible -6% on npc neck and adorn. Insta cast pots that are doubling -cast can be removed or replaced, so they shouldn't be issue. Even when they exist they last only 5 sec, so not a big deal.

3.33 aps isn't different to 5 aps when it comes to animation of the attacks, so it could be capped to that speed and players wouldn't really notice, but it would help a lot when it comes to balance between especially warriors and robe classes. I limited attack speed on my server to 3.33 aps with possible gear (4 aps on spark, but with level 6 tome that is rather expensive).

 

[nofxpunkerbrian]

In PW MAX we limited Base aps to 2.50 for non EA classes and max cast can be a maximum high of 69. Anything more than that causes imba. We controlled both aps and cast so no one can get more than that.

Controlling the cast can make imbalance as well if you release content the same respect PW does on official maybe a few extra stats you won't have a problem, when I have finished patching GS file you will realise the difference yes -25% cast but this will force people to begin using their classes for their correct purposes instead of relying on casting to be successful.

See I was initially thinking APS was a problem too, can't say I've put much thought (honestly) into casting (since I don't really do magic classes =\), I have recently been realizing / thinking about the fact that it's not really APS itself that seems to be the problem.

My current thoughts, on APS at least. The actual problem at hand is being able to "perma-spark" since chi is built so fast AT 5.0 APS. So I figure the absolute best fix would be to rebuild the whole chi building system. Well pretty highly un-likely, I used to think the next best thing would be changing the APS cap (from 5.0 to something like 3.0), but figured "wait a minute" the main actual problem at hand isn't the fact that this game's initial design implemented a 5.0 APS cap, and how widely abused it is now -- to "PERMA-SPARK" and that's the main problem at hand. I am surely thinking -- there's NO way the developers intended for people to do unlimited (500)/700% dmg, 25% dmg reduction, and every 15 seconds receive 20% hp regain and 3 seconds invulnerability.

Well you'll also notice the spark skills are (probably) the ONLY skills that don't have, what, a COOL-DOWN TIMER !

Personally I (now) think this would actually be the BEST resolution to the "APS problem", add/increase the cool-down timer for triple spark to be 60 seconds... with the timer at precisely 60 seconds ALL players regardless of APS will be able to spark at the same time, whether you're an ax hammer barb/bm, crossbow archer, or a 5.0 aps bm/whatever... I've tested over and over and 60 seconds seems to be a PERFECT flat figure.

Now my only question is (not being a magic based player myself) how would or wouldn't this 'fix' any problems with 'casters' ?

I was also thinking about the official game, and why they (probably) NEVER will do something like change the APS 'cap' -- because way too many cat 5.0 abusers would QQ and quit (and ofc they don't want that, but not like I would give two shits). In addition it's not really the problem at hand; and I think one of the best two fixes would be to A) rebuild the whole chi building system (which will also never happen, probably just because it's "too much to do/too much work"), or the easiest option -- ADD A Ducking COOL DOWN TIMER TO SPARK =\

I also realize, 'fixing' it by changing / adding a cool-down timer to triple spark will still give any 3.0 - 5.0 APS players the advantage of building chi at a much faster rate than other characters. So they will, therefore, be capable of using other skills that require chi, and/or sparks earlier than those characters. I however think that this is still the best idea because at least then the player actually has to THINK about their playing ('strategy') opposed to just spamming APS and permasparking for unlimited 500/700% damage, with 25% damage reduction, and every 3 seconds getting a 20% regain to HP and 3 seconds of invincibility !

So, please let me know what you think of this idea :

---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 PM ----------

Also... this is a very important issue to me personally, and I believe the community as a whole, and the games longevity. So, at least for now, this discussion is getting STICKY ! :

APS isn't that big of an issue considering 5.0 can only be achieved IF the game is controlled with the respect towards balance when sparking and thats IF you are hell so I dont think placing a cap on APS is a big issue but casting is. APS can be defended against but casting cannot especially instant casting. After looking into how the game goes most players can get their gear to 60%+ cast and then rely on pots/spark/skills to achieve insta cast those few seconds of using these pots/sparks are the essential areas of where they can drop upto 4 players a crack without even pressing more than a few buttons. After looking into this and testing cast over and over editing in iweb I realised 75% cast cap is the best because it still allows MG, WF and EP's to still be deadly in pvp and pve and wont eliminate them but it WILL solve the casting problem. This will then guide players to another form of build instead of relying on gear with cast maybe they will work on attack or defence? this then bursts a creativity step and well if your a fan of MMO's the way I am its inspiring to see new changes and I believe this change is for the better.

I already imagine the players that come from pwi: "oh no wtf with the cooldown of the spark? : "

So no I'll probably won't use that fix. It will be more raging from players...

Good riddance to players who cant handle balance lol.

 

[343]

I already imagine the players that come from pwi: "oh no wtf with the cooldown of the spark? : "

So no I'll probably won't use that fix. It will be more raging from players...

To those types of players I say, the door is that way *points*. Don't let it hit ya where the good lord split ya!

Not to mention I've seen more than enough people complaining about it, I'm sure any server that does use this 'fix' is going to have quite a lengthy list of followers (at least die hard GAME players, not these wussy cheaters and abusers) based off of how many people are pissed that PW is so out of balance! That number I'd pretty safely say is in the thousands! And if people are going to actually get mad that someone is FINALLY 'fixing' the game, then they don't have to play -- screw them!

Sadly enough as it is, I think PWE/PWi 'buys into' your theory of "not wanting to piss off players, or hear the QQing" from actually FIXING this PROBLEM. What's even more sad, is this IS going to COMPLETELY FLUSH this game DOWN THE TOILET if something isn't done about it. Sure they/we may lose some players that nerd-rage-quit-QQ because they can't 'cheat' anymore. In the long run however is where it will pay off. Put it this way, for whatever FUCKED up reason I still play PWi, but, with how out of balance it is -- I would NOT recommend this game to my WORST enemy right now !!!! So hmm, loose some players/"customers" now because they QQnerdragequitQQ over something being fixed. Or take the risk of the game burning itself into the ground because people like me wouldn't recommend this game to their worst enemy, once the people that are playing now quit/leave the game will be dead totally. So again, I re-iterate anyone who is gonna QQnerdragequitQQ over us actually FIXING the game, WE DON'T NEED 'EM -- screw them!

 

[hrace009]

The next few weeks I am going to be working on patching up the gs binary file so I can lower the cap of casting and interval. I have been working on skills as well just messing around so I have a good grasp of what to do in editing stats etc.

Right now insta-cast is a big issue for classes especially WF and MG it ruins balance in pvp and also ruins the community base on class differentiality(if thats how u spell it). Your input towards what you think the limit should be would help my testing purposes.

Thanks

i hate Mage/Wizzard :grr:

Long life For Archers lol

 

[das7002]

i hate Mage/Wizzard :grr:

Long life For Archers lol

Heh that reminds me of the first thing I did when I got a server running. An insanely long range bow tt1:

 

[343]

Controlling the cast can make imbalance as well if you release content the same respect PW does on official maybe a few extra stats you won't have a problem, when I have finished patching GS file you will realise the difference yes -25% cast but this will force people to begin using their classes for their correct purposes instead of relying on casting to be successful.


APS isn't that big of an issue considering 5.0 can only be achieved IF the game is controlled with the respect towards balance when sparking and thats IF you are hell so I dont think placing a cap on APS is a big issue but casting is. APS can be defended against but casting cannot especially instant casting. After looking into how the game goes most players can get their gear to 60%+ cast and then rely on pots/spark/skills to achieve insta cast those few seconds of using these pots/sparks are the essential areas of where they can drop upto 4 players a crack without even pressing more than a few buttons. After looking into this and testing cast over and over editing in iweb I realised 75% cast cap is the best because it still allows MG, WF and EP's to still be deadly in pvp and pve and wont eliminate them but it WILL solve the casting problem. This will then guide players to another form of build instead of relying on gear with cast maybe they will work on attack or defence? this then bursts a creativity step and well if your a fan of MMO's the way I am its inspiring to see new changes and I believe this change is for the better.


Good riddance to players who cant handle balance lol.

Back to all seriousness in this thread... So, you think capping 'casting' reduction to be a max of 25% reduction? (did I read that right?) What is it currently (by 'default')?

I would love to help you come up with and perform a fix to resolve this issue once and for all. I was really thinking APS could be left a lone provided there is a 60 second timer put on the triple spark.

So what do you think is the best resolution? Leave APS alone, modify cooldown timer on spark to be 60 seconds, and modify casting reduction 'cap' ?

 

[Anghellic]

Limit channeling reduction to around 50%. I think that's a reasonable compromise and magic classes will still notice a significant difference without being overpowered. PW was never meant to handle constant instacast and it definitely destroys the balance.

Allow a max of 2.5 base APS with 5.0 being achievable via demon spark. This being said, I also think the amount of gear offering increased interval and reduction in channeling should be limited.

I don't agree with placing a cooldown timer on sparks. It was set up the way it is for a reason.

 

[hrace009]

:grr: i make a mistake with MG equipment, i make for hand -10% weapon -10%, and the mage have instant cast :grr:, this job realy make me angry, does anyone know how to change bonus stat for Equipment that has been craft, without player know their Equipment has been changed. if i wan to change the stat manualy, there is around 80 - 100 players was using it :grr: this MG realy ruins Game Balance

 

[nofxpunkerbrian]

Back to all seriousness in this thread... So, you think capping 'casting' reduction to be a max of 25% reduction? (did I read that right?) What is it currently (by 'default')?

I would love to help you come up with and perform a fix to resolve this issue once and for all. I was really thinking APS could be left a lone provided there is a 60 second timer put on the triple spark.

So what do you think is the best resolution? Leave APS alone, modify cooldown timer on spark to be 60 seconds, and modify casting reduction 'cap' ?

I will be modifying the casting cap, I believe interval doesn't need to be touched and the skills are good as they are so basically a casting cap of 75% instead of 95%. Its quite hard to do and will take me a while to figure it out but once its done this can be issue we never need to worry about again.

 

[DaMadBoy]

I've already had some success with trying to balance out my classes, right now all classes on my server (using the armor I created) have a high chance of kicking each others butts and the battles don't go on forever either.

So far I've kept WRs to a maximum of 3.33 with spark and magical classes have -55% casting, defence and attack wise they seem to be well balanced. With that said though I do need to test these sets out more but I'm learning as I go.

Obviously people can still find ways around this and increase their casting and interval but those that do have to sacrifice defences as my own armor will be the only one that goes to level 150 for the time being, so any that do use other equipment or mix it with my own to get faster casting or interval will be put at a defensive disadvatage, so they may deal damage faster but they take more in return.

How well that will work out is yet to be tested but I'm hoping all goes according to plan (not that it ever does but we all live in hope)

 

[343]

I will be modifying the casting cap, I believe interval doesn't need to be touched and the skills are good as they are so basically a casting cap of 75% instead of 95%. Its quite hard to do and will take me a while to figure it out but once its done this can be issue we never need to worry about again.

I do believe there needs to be a cooldown timer added to spark, or APS cap changed (or both) still... I will look into taking care of one or both of these aspects myself, and share any results I obtain