Emulator developers, read this.

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  1. #1
    Ultimate Member FunHotel is offline
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    Emulator developers, read this.


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    Hi,

    Something I've been thinking about is the database structure for new emulators.
    This might be a thread that people will hate as it might sound like I want you to spoon feed the community.

    New emulators want their database structure to be so "unique" or whatever, it's understandable but I think you should look to make it more adaptable to releases out there. Let me explain.

    E.g Arcturus (I like that emulator don't get me wrong). However, they have catalog_items, catalog_pages and items_base? why not furniture? Like 90% of all furniture releases out there is using the table "furniture" and not items_base, yes it is easy to change by yourself, but for all the newbies, they want things to be easily made. It's ofcourse good for them to learn how to change queries and whatever, but it is quite annoying change the queries every single time. I guess you could use a furni adder of some sort to make the queries adaptable to the furniture but still.

    And Comet, why fucking "players" instead of "users"? (I also like Comet dw). It's just so annoying to have to change queries all the time when chaning CMS, adding cms addons or whatever. Maybe stick to what the community has already built?

    I know that there is updates that forces columns and shit to be added, but you get my point.

    Yes it is a big problem that people want to get spoonfed in this community, but the easier it is to make, adjust and add features to your retro the more people will be making retros, and the community might grow, who knows?

    What's your thoughts about this, do you think I am just lazy or is it actually a good idea to stick to what's already built by the community?
    Last edited by FunHotel; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:13 AM.
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  2. #2
    Veteran Glaceon is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    If you want a hotel, spend time on it. If you want to use Comet and your CMS uses users, change it. The problem is, with this we get a million retros. Not that there aren't. and from those hotels, maybe 2 or 3 are a bit special, the rest is the exact same. The amount of time spent on the hotel is sad as well. Just downloaded, setup and thats it. I don't mind it, but then I also am that you shouldn't complain about furniture/base_items and players/users stuff. If you REALLY want a hotel, then it doesn't matter because you wouldn't care to change. If you can't, find a good technician or just don't make a hotel.

    I might be a bit harsh, but I think it's complete utter bullshit developers has to adjust to the community so it can be overflooded with retro hotels which are 99.99% the same. I think it's sad.
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  3. #3
    Death from above! The General is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    Err, furniture table sounds like bought furniture which it does not contain as it contains furniture definitions, therefor in Arcturus I decided to go with items_base (item_definitions felt too long). Emulators use the Habbo class yet they call their database structure users in order to keep in line with the past. If it was up to me and if I did not give a crap about compatibility with other CMS' I would've renamed all users_* tables to habbo_.

    I know that there is updates that forces columns and shit to be added, but you get my point.
    No I don't get it.

    Yes it is a big problem that people want to get spoonfed in this community,
    Thats why you made this post right? To be spoonfed?
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  4. #4
    Ultimate Member FunHotel is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by The General View Post
    Err, furniture table sounds like bought furniture which it does not contain as it contains furniture definitions, therefor in Arcturus I decided to go with items_base (item_definitions felt too long). Emulators use the Habbo class yet they call their database structure users in order to keep in line with the past. If it was up to me and if I did not give a crap about compatibility with other CMS' I would've renamed all users_* tables to habbo_.


    No I don't get it.



    Thats why you made this post right? To be spoonfed?
    "No I don't get it."?
    Try reading that sentence again, I am not saying that it is possible to stick with the standard e.g phoenix database structure, as features and functions is being added which forces you to add some extra columns? How can't you get it?

    "Thats why you made this post right? To be spoonfed?"
    Stop, I know what I am doing. I have my solutions, but why not make things like adding customs more noobfriendly? it's just a good suggestion.
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  5. #5
    Veteran Glaceon is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    Stop, I know what I am doing. I have my solutions, but why not make things like adding customs more noobfriendly? it's just a good suggestion.
    Yeah making sure we get 10+ the 99.99% the same hotels that dont stand out and spam everywhere. Yeah, good idea sir.
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  6. #6
    Ultimate Member FunHotel is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glaceon View Post
    Yeah making sure we get 10+ the 99.99% the same hotels that dont stand out and spam everywhere. Yeah, good idea sir.
    Making it easier to add customs wont make the community more cancer then it already is, try thinking for once.
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  7. #7
    Veteran Glaceon is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunHotel View Post
    Making it easier to add customs wont make the community more cancer then it already is, try thinking for once.
    Well. If you want to go to 0 originality in hotels, then sure, all your points are valid. I'm not going to explain myself again, I did that in my first reply.
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  8. #8
    Ultimate Member FunHotel is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glaceon View Post
    Well. If you want to go to 0 originality in hotels, then sure, all your points are valid. I'm not going to explain myself again, I did that in my first reply.
    I get your point sure, and if it turns out to be cancer just because you "spoon feed" the community with an easier adaptable database structure, we might see more releases for the emulator? (and probably even more help threads). Still, nothing wrong with that.
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  9. #9
    Death from above! The General is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunHotel View Post
    "[COLOR=#666666]but why not make things like adding customs more noobfriendly? it's just a good suggestion.
    Its not hard. PHPMyAdmin, Navicat and HeidiSQL all have pretty neat forms where you can simply input the data. The only thing that confuses most people is the item definition id, catalog item id and the sprite id. It's not rocket science. It doesnt matter if the table name is called items_base, item_definitions, furniture or potato_chips. Contents stays the same, structurally its the same for pretty much any emulator.
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  10. #10
    ◝(⁰▿⁰)◜Formerly CodeDragon ◝(⁰▿⁰)◜ Taiga is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    This idea isn't so bad in theory but in practice it is hard. You never can have an universal Database structure since every emulator is doing things in a different way. There can be made a lot of improvements in certain database structures but this makes it unique for an emulator. An emulator might take advantage of the performance benefits by using a certain structure. Having this difference prevents people from actually breaking things if they don't know what they are doing. Most people in this section write things because they want to learn how to program or implement certain things in a certain way.
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  11. #11
    Hardcore Member cabeludo007 is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    Cool, let's make a RageZone tables naming pattern! But not. The real problem here is on the cms's y'all cms developers are just worry with the appearance of your project but not the structure behind that. There are so many ways to make a dynamic cms that can be used on many emulators just using a single file to handle the communication between cms and database.
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  12. #12
    King of the Moogles Moogly is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    Making customs easier to add involves building tooling that requires knowledge outside of just networking but now we'd also have to do a little bit of flash building, and there's not many who care enough about flash to do such a thing in this community. If you want to make something better this community is now at a stage where you have to put your money where your mouth is if you want to see results otherwise it's highly unlikely.

    Edit:

    As for tables naming pattern, that's all up to the developer, a lot of databases were designed poorly and some got better but had poor decisions in their own areas. Making every programmer adhere to old broken database standards would be worse off for the community, as a result emulators would load a lot slower. A real life example: I remember adding indexing to a simple table for Phoenix and instead of waiting 15 seconds to buy furni from the catalogue we were now buying furniture instantaneously.

    Edit 2:

    The only true way to get a common database is to spec out one that is efficient and create a standard. If developers can agree on that set standard all future emulators should be able to coexist without issue, same with CMS'. Probably a better community effort than trying to build an emulator together since it leaves the actual programming up to the individual developer. This is how WSGI works for Python. Anyone can write web based software solutions in Python adhering to the WSGI spec and be able to plug it in and out of frameworks and web servers with 0 changes to their code base. Simple solution used in production by Python developers everywhere see PEP333 : https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0333/ Maybe we can have HEP? Habbo Enhancement/Emulator Proposals, I count this post as HEP1.
    Last edited by Moogly; 18 Hours Ago at 11:19 AM.

  13. #13
    Death from above! The General is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moogly View Post
    but now we'd also have to do a little bit of flash building, and there's not many who care enough about flash to do such a thing in this community. If you want to make something better this community is now at a stage where you have to put your money where your mouth is if you want to see results otherwise it's highly unlikely.
    Care to elaborate? Would be interesting to hear your ideas. ;) ;)
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  14. #14
    King of the Moogles Moogly is offline
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    Re: Emulator developers, read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by The General View Post
    Care to elaborate? Would be interesting to hear your ideas. ;) ;)
    It's just like when everyone left and Nillus was the only one coding, or when he left and we were left with Meth0d's project, or before Butterfly was leaked and people were riding the Phoenix train. If nobody steps up and fixes what they don't like it will stay as is. There's plenty of books, videos and resources to learn programming in 2017.




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