EchoWho - an advanced social network content management system...

[Justei]

I assure you that PHP can work quite well for very large applications, such as a social network. You have a ton of utilities at your disposal that can cache or in some other manner speed up/increase scalability of a PHP application. Remember, you aren't limited to Apache. I could even run PHP using node.js as a webserver.

I know that, I've designed, and worked on large scale websites(including a social network with about 1.000.000 concurrent users), using PHP, and I still use PHP every day for most of my projects.

However, I'm simply stating that PHP might not be the best option for his project, a thought I think should be put into every developers thought if you are creating a large scale network website, to actually think about how the website in itself is going to work.

Keep in mind that the site might not work well with caching, what if the content changes on it dynamicly every 3-4 minutes? Then caching wont be as effective as you would have wanted.

So yes, I have to correct myself, PHP can be scalable, if it's done properly and in the right situation. For a bigger website, such as a social network, I think you will most likely go with RoR or some other solution.
Just like Twitter, Shoppify, Basecamp.

But yes, just like you said, you can use PHP as well. Completely depends on the site in itself and requirements.

In the end, it's up to the project in itself, what's best for the project is what should be used to make it. I'm merely trying to encourage thinking about other options.

 

[s-p-n]

In the end, it's up to the project in itself, what's best for the project is what should be used to make it. I'm merely trying to encourage thinking about other options.

Meh, It's up to the developer. If facebook is stubborn enough to use PHP even though it forces them to create inhumane optimization, I'm pretty certain you can use any language you want for any project if you try hard enough. What ever's easier for you to do I guess is the most efficient choice (labor-wise). I agree with Justei because I don't like using PHP. Timebomb likes using PHP so he argues that PHP can do it. The truth is Node.JS, ruby on rails, and PHP can all do a social network.

The other truth is, these guys at EchoWho probably shouldn't make a social network in any language.. Not for any reason other than to learn, that is. If doing it for the money, disappointment will surely follow.

 

[Grenadier]

Also, i am pretty confused as to why you are using a theme forest theme for your site if you are a web developer...:blink:

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[שเ๒єtгเ๒є]

having a class called Session carring on objects that should be called User is pretty stupid. the snippet is enough i see, fail guys fail xD

Oh yeah! Of course!
That's the hardest part, forgot! It's not like someone else could just code the same thing up in an hour, no, that would be impossible!

xD...

i love your sacasm haha


whatever, sure u can do anything in any language if its built for it, the question is does it make sense. using php is like cutting wood with a hammer, dont hurt yourself Hotcut, the design is pretty, but beware of it.
s-p-n facebook isnt just stubborn, they are stupid. but np, lets all go mark zuckerberg hand in hand with exceptions. ^_°
however php is quick and feels handy for many ppl, but i will never go that line anymore, heil asp.net! ... xDD

 

[Papercup]

We are resuming the development and taking all things into account, thanks.

This is purely educational for me and Lucca, as we no way have the potential to make a 'professional' network. It's good practice for communication and team work skills.

Obviously, It's not to the best standard but we are improving it.

Grenadier, That's completely off-topic.

 

[WireShark]

I love this one if this will be opensource! nice!

 

[TimeBomb]

whatever, sure u can do anything in any language if its built for it, the question is does it make sense. using php is like cutting wood with a hammer, dont hurt yourself Hotcut, the design is pretty, but beware of it.
s-p-n facebook isnt just stubborn, they are stupid. but np, lets all go mark zuckerberg hand in hand with exceptions. ^_°
however php is quick and feels handy for many ppl, but i will never go that line anymore, heil asp.net! ... xDD

You're wrong. Plain and simple. PHP has a lot of faults, but optimization, scalability, and maintaining large applications need not be a worry if you're a true professional. PHP is a crappy language primarily because its API is horrible. But it's feature-rich, it's fast, it's community is large - which means lots of support and third-party libraries and it can technically be optimized and scaled. Facebook is a great example of that, and Mark Zuckerburg is a genius entrepreneur (and, from what I hear, somewhat of a douchebag as well as a meh programmer).

 

[Jordan]

You're wrong. Plain and simple. PHP has a lot of faults, but optimization, scalability, and maintaining large applications need not be a worry if you're a true professional. PHP is a crappy language primarily because its API is horrible. But it's feature-rich, it's fast, it's community is large - which means lots of support and third-party libraries and it can technically be optimized and scaled. Facebook is a great example of that, and Mark Zuckerburg is a genius entrepreneur (and, from what I hear, somewhat of a douchebag as well as a meh programmer).

"fast" somebody has obviously never tried to scale vanilla PHP.

 

[שเ๒єtгเ๒є]

You're wrong. Plain and simple. PHP has a lot of faults, but optimization, scalability, and maintaining large applications need not be a worry if you're a true professional. PHP is a crappy language primarily because its API is horrible. But it's feature-rich, it's fast, it's community is large - which means lots of support and third-party libraries and it can technically be optimized and scaled. Facebook is a great example of that, and Mark Zuckerburg is a genius entrepreneur (and, from what I hear, somewhat of a douchebag as well as a meh programmer).

there are competitions thats feature rich too, thats not the point, can express any language with features. the point on PHP is, that the "features" are horrible classified, without php.net u are unable to track any function, there are no namespaces (ok there are, but not like i want them, i still have to import my files, the current used namespace seems to be useless in most cases), there arent similar name conventions. (look at the array functions, they arent named "array_*" all, but almost lol.)
there are even constants that are still totaly messed up. the problem of PHP is the team doesnt care optimizations of their libs, they are prolly working on it without even holding (online) team meetings, thats ridiculous. (looks like every developer does his poop how he wants it on PHP, without any right general direction)

now u tell me PHP ist fast? by loading all existing libs of the php team in runtime automatically, its not for sure (but's neither slow to be fair).
then, this language isnt able to compile. i.e. ASP.net is a way faster (except for the first compiling).
mightful third part libraries are fine and ok, but the poop will never end by working with PHP, its not even able to debug in a detailed case. i wonder how mark finished his project without freaking out.

dont get me wrong, i dont say PHP is the worsest ever u shouldnt program, everybody is free to do how he feels like. i myself have to give a big thanks to PHP, cuz without PHP i never found out programming is so much fun, it gave me the right direction in my life. but after 2 years of noob programming and finally learning professional programming with professional layers'n'models, i would rather stop programming than returning back to PHP.

srsly ...

if ("456" == 456) { echo "duck you php!"; }
if (strpos("Hallo", 'H') == FALSE) { echo "duck this poop!"; }
...
the problem isnt we lack of third libs, never, never. the problem is how php is ...
- full of surprises
- inconsistent
- no boilerplates
- flacky
- opaque

my fav article about php:

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thx to you RZ for giving me this link few months ago, it helped me to stop clip on PHP like an insane bish.


sincerely, VibeTribe

 

[TimeBomb]

snip

I've been forced to deal with ASP.NET a couple times (Specifically

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; terribly slow), and have found it to be noticeably slower than the majority of other PHP applications I've dealt with. That being said, the speed of a language obviously depends not only on the structure and overall quality of the code, but also on the server setup; you can make almost any website blazing fast with enough setup and resources.

PHP is poorly designed, I probably know this better than most people on this forum. I personally overcome that primarily via building and using components to be used when building applications. Similar to the idea of a framework but more of a toolkit or library than a framework. Doing this means you deal directly with PHP's API less while making PHP applications that much more predictable, usable, and so on.

That being said, from a programming point of view, PHP's API has a painful amount of flaws. I've participated in a bit of PHP's internal discussion - primarily about PHP 5.5, but had to stop. The language's API really is too far gone. Nevertheless, from a business point of view, PHP is still a very usable, viable language for even enterprise-level applications.

 

[Justei]

I've been forced to deal with ASP.NET a couple times (Specifically

You must be registered to see links

; terribly slow), and have found it to be noticeably slower than the majority of other PHP applications I've dealt with. That being said, the speed of a language obviously depends not only on the structure and overall quality of the code, but also on the server setup; you can make almost any website blazing fast with enough setup and resources.

Well, when you say that I'd like to quote something written earlier in the link that VibeTribe sent.

Do not tell me that “good developers can write good code in any language”, or bad developers blah blah. That doesn’t mean anything. A good carpenter can drive in a nail with either a rock or a hammer, but how many carpenters do you see bashing stuff with rocks? Part of what makes a good developer is the ability to choose the tools that work best.

HOWEVER I would still like to say that I agree that PHP isn't worthless, I still use it in day to day work, BUT I'm looking to migrate away from it as much as possible (to the extent that my work allows me to). PHP is good for pumping out prototypes if you're fast and good at PHP, but I merely think that if you're planning on making a huge application, PHP might not be the best choice.

 

[TimeBomb]

Well, when you say that I'd like to quote something written earlier in the link that VibeTribe sent.


HOWEVER I would still like to say that I agree that PHP isn't worthless, I still use it in day to day work, BUT I'm looking to migrate away from it as much as possible (to the extent that my work allows me to). PHP is good for pumping out prototypes if you're fast and good at PHP, but I merely think that if you're planning on making a huge application, PHP might not be the best choice.

What I'm trying to emphasize is that PHP is still very capable of being used (often while avoiding many of the language's design flaws by using a high quality framework or tool set) to build large or even huge applications. Because PHP wasn't initially developed with scalability in mind, it is often much less straight forward to scale PHP (rather than a more scale-friendly language) for huge applications, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near impossible. Website speed of a huge application doesn't need to be a worry, even with PHP, if the code is high quality and you know how and are able to spend the time to set it up efficiently.

 

[s-p-n]

whatever, sure u can do anything in any language if its built for it, the question is does it make sense. using php is like cutting wood with a hammer,

PHP isn't simple.. Sorry but a hammer for PHP makes no sense. Think of using something far too complex for a simple task. PHP is like using a chainsaw to cut a 2x6. The cut won't be clean, it's quite dangerous, and the only reason you're using a chainsaw is because you're a terrible carpenter and chose a chainsaw over a skil saw.. Believe it or not, PHP was actually designed for dynamic web-sites- like how a chainsaw was designed to cut all different varieties of wood. I've seen some nasty butt cuts on factory lumber- they use a chainsaw. So whenever we get lumber we order it long and shave off both ends so it's a nice clean cut we can use. Now, it wouldn't be that easy to run a factory with a cleaner saw- as it would bind with large lumber and the blade would get dull faster- it's really not worth it. So a chainsaw is probably the most practical "one-tool-cuts-all" saw, but that doesn't mean it's better for everything. In conclusion, PHP is very popular and useful because it plays a very broad roll in web development. It's probably the most efficient way to ship out unique, dynamic web-sites to several clients with a variety of needs. You don't even have to be a good carpenter to use a chainsaw, nor do you have to be a good programmer to make something useful in PHP.

Okay time to make fun of PHP is over..

Timebomb has a point though. PHP Comes with all the tools you need, and if you know what you're doing, you can make wonderful tools. PHP 5.4 is a ton of fun better than PHP 5.3. I can't say I like everything about Apache2 and PHP, but I can say for people who develop sites for Apache2, that PHP 5.4 is a good option. If the topic has turned into a debate on which of the 4: ASP.net, PHP, Node.JS or Ruby on Rails will make a better EchoWho web application, I completely disagree with all claims. Languages are not bad software engineers, bad software engineers are are bad software engineers... Not to be confused with languages that were coded by bad software engineers....

 

[שเ๒єtгเ๒є]

PHP isn't simple.. Sorry but a hammer for PHP makes no sense. Think of using something far too complex for a simple task. PHP is like using a chainsaw to cut a 2x6. The cut won't be clean, it's quite dangerous, and the only reason you're using a chainsaw is because you're a terrible carpenter and chose a chainsaw over a skil saw.. Believe it or not, PHP was actually designed for dynamic web-sites- like how a chainsaw was designed to cut all different varieties of wood. I've seen some nasty butt cuts on factory lumber- they use a chainsaw. So whenever we get lumber we order it long and shave off both ends so it's a nice clean cut we can use. Now, it wouldn't be that easy to run a factory with a cleaner saw- as it would bind with large lumber and the blade would get dull faster- it's really not worth it. So a chainsaw is probably the most practical "one-tool-cuts-all" saw, but that doesn't mean it's better for everything. In conclusion, PHP is very popular and useful because it plays a very broad roll in web development. It's probably the most efficient way to ship out unique, dynamic web-sites to several clients with a variety of needs. You don't even have to be a good carpenter to use a chainsaw, nor do you have to be a good programmer to make something useful in PHP.

i rly like your chainsaw example, u got some right points on it, and your story is funny
indeed, PHP is easy and fast to use, but its very dangerous in many aspects. in the first case, php was just a non programmer language, something to get done very fast. i see there are good points for newbies in programming, who just want to have alittle dynamic tasks in their web presence. this is the reason its so popular, it doesnt require so much work to get into it, and its even the better solution for quick projects that require a little piece of whatever. now my mad point on this is, php is still strict to its own code style behaviour. after 4 months learning asp.net on my company i did a little php project for a nice amount of money in few hours, and i got pissed. not just cuz php seems to be the unholy crap of everything if u program in higher language again, just cuz i couldnt program saver with it. my first turn was to try to force php to be type save, to tell this stupid language im not a newbie, i want to be strict, i want this value stays int forever, and that value stays string. forget it, it forces u to be unsafe, it brang depressions to be, its like eating a cold soup.

Timebomb has a point though. PHP Comes with all the tools you need, and if you know what you're doing, you can make wonderful tools. PHP 5.4 is a ton of fun better than PHP 5.3. I can't say I like everything about Apache2 and PHP, but I can say for people who develop sites for Apache2, that PHP 5.4 is a good option. If the topic has turned into a debate on which of the 4: ASP.net, PHP, Node.JS or Ruby on Rails will make a better EchoWho web application, I completely disagree with all claims. Languages are not bad software engineers, bad software engineers are are bad software engineers... Not to be confused with languages that were coded by bad software engineers....

i like your last statement, all i do say to this:
"choose the best for u", like i never said "nobody should use php", go ahead, but do it right or i start laughing

 

[Papercup]

Updated and fixed all of them issues,

Still improving on this daily with Lucca.

Updates -

* Compatible with all browsers except Internet Explorer
* Login and Register complete
* Fixed Background positioning and quality
* Works with all screen sizes
* Added JavaScript checks for the alerts
* Fixed register redirect

 

[Papercup]

* Forgot password complete
* Email sends out etc

 

[Jax]

Seems like a project that will be finished, Good luck Sean (topman).

 

[Papercup]

We removed the Gender part for the registration to make it faster registration for the members.

The JavaScript checks to see if any of the fields are empty, and if they are it uses a alert with a msg variable alerting you that the field is empty.

 

[WizCoder]

Site looks very nice, hope you complete it as it appears to be focused on a lot which is good.
I'm working on something too, hopefully I could share it with ragezone eventually.

 

[Papercup]

Thanks, I am currently waiting on the internal designs.