Freedom vs Faith

[Boko]

Can't believe nobody posted about this yet O_o

This topic is about those Danish caricatures of the prophet Muhammad, which resulted in massive revolts near embassy's and shit.

What do you guys think about this stuff?

Here's a link to an article about it

I personally agree with the fact that they shouldn't have been meant as an insult to the Islam community, but I still think that some people are overreacting. I just listened to the 12 o'clock news, and they were talking about people wanting a fatwa put on the people who made the cartoons (Meaning they want them killed). I know lots of people are offended by the pictures, but Muslims should be treated equally, like everybody else.

Any thoughts?

[MentaL]

[Obbob]

Well i come from Sweden and they attacked our embassy.
I can understand that they get mad about the insult, but here in Sweden there are Muslims who lived here for 15 years that is starting to destroy things and making violence.
That is totally wrong of them, they lived here for 15 good years and as soon as the Muslims in palestina is starting violence they do to.
Imo the Muslims here in Sweden should be glad we dont kick them out like they did to us in their country.

[Smo]

Bottom line is, the muslims fucking suck. And before you ask; Yes, I am going to get racist about it. Those assholes have been holding banners saying things like 'Behead those who insult Islam' and 'It's OK to murder those of conflicting faith' - now I think I speak for every sane human being when I say WHAT THE FUCK? The dipshits have done nothing but fight for some bullshit 'cause' because without a cause to blow shit up, their martyr's (dare we call them that) are just nobodies. GET A FUCKING CLUE.

[FragFrog]

Don't forget its only a very small portion of muslim community that actually gets angry about this.

But yes, that portion is bloody out of its mind. Critisizing political and ethnical ideas is a common trade in most European countries, doing it by ways of a cartoon only strengthens the motion that it is a mere joke. Who doesn't remember that great song 'I want to take you to a gay-bar' featuring shots of Bush and Blair talking to eachother with the suggestion of a rather disturbing conversation. Thats about as direct an insult to two of the most important political leaders as possible, and the only reaction was some TV channels wouldn't broadcast it any more...

Or to use an even more accurate analogy: if some bully on school anoyes you, little kids will try fight him. Adults will simply ignore him since they know better. Radical muslims are behaving like little kids here, only proving once again that their religion is an infantile excuse for murder and hate.

Ow, and before anyone gets any smart ideas: I WILL ban everyone who starts flaming on sight! Keep this civilised!

[Boko]

You guys should all remember that it is a different culture we are dealing with. They have very different opinions on certain matters than we do. By insulting their prophet we basically insulted their existence (Prophet = faith, faith = their lives). And that's why they are acting like this. To us, it's overreacting and pretty much lame. To them, it's their lives, and they just deal with criticism in a different way then we do.

What if it was the other way around. What if THEY attacked what WE believe in, like freedom of speech. We wouldnt understand why they would do it, because who doesnt want freedom of speech? But basically that's what we're doing to them. We're judging their culture even though we have no right to judge them.

I'm not saying this because I think it's right what they are doing (Because it's not. Who the hell sets fires to embassy's O_o), but you guys should consider what we did to them. For us, it's not a big deal that we printed those pictures in papers, because our culture is based on freedom of speech. That however, isn't the case with Muslims. They have a different culture and we should respect that.

Greetings,
Boko

[MentaL]

Over reacted.

[FragFrog]

What if it was the other way around. What if THEY attacked what WE believe in, like freedom of speech. We wouldnt understand why they would do it, because who doesnt want freedom of speech? But basically that's what we're doing to them. We're judging their culture even though we have no right to judge them.

Actually, think about this one more carefully. What would happen if someone made a joke about our freedom of speach? Would you want to kill that person?

Yes, we are insulting their way of life, and their culture. The reason for that is simple, and clear to anyone, especially those with an open mind about this: their culture, contrary to most western ones, does not value life. It does not respect others. It does not even have room in its religion to peacefully co-exist with other religions.

This means there are two options: either that religion changes or dies out in its current form, or they destroy the rest of the world.

Now, we are lucky indeed that muslims for some reason never got the same level of sophistication as western society has in terms of nuclear and biological warfare. There have been a few close calls, but in the end they never managed to stop fighting amongst eachother for long enough to pose a thread to western society. I do not doubt that this is at least partly due to their different values and believes and more importantly lack of tollerance.

I fear indeed that the only chance men has to survive into the 22th century is for the Islam to either dramatically change its view of other religions or to diminish / die out.

[Boko]

their culture, contrary to most western ones, does not value life. It does not respect others

Depends on what kind of Muslim you're talking about :tp: (Not all muslims want to kill you when you say 'Muhammed is gay', or at least I hope not lol).

But I agree with what you're saying. For the most part in their society, it's just plain fuked up O_o

Let's just hope things change for the best...

Greetings,
Boko

[Genryu]

Bottom line is, the muslims fucking suck. And before you ask; Yes, I am going to get racist about it. Those assholes have been holding banners saying things like 'Behead those who insult Islam' and 'It's OK to murder those of conflicting faith' - now I think I speak for every sane human being when I say WHAT THE FUCK? The dipshits have done nothing but fight for some bullshit 'cause' because without a cause to blow shit up, their martyr's (dare we call them that) are just nobodies. GET A FUCKING CLUE.

Man, thats random, not all muslims are like that so don't judge them, and yes I am a muslim, and what you say is totally random, I never saw muslims like that so shut up.Think big.

[Smo]

Man, thats random, not all muslims are like that so don't judge them, and yes I am a muslim, and what you say is totally random, I never saw muslims like that so shut up.Think big.

Take a look in the paper then. And no need to tell me to shut up, that's no way to defend yourself is it? Look at all the muslim extremists - they're totally out of line and need to get a fucking clue. When was the last time you heard of a Christian/Catholic/Buddhist go and blow something up because they got insulted? Bottom line is the muslim extremists are so narrow minded that they're just like big babies.

Edit:



'Nuff said huh.

[SiGGy]

The ones that're acting like twats over a little picture just need to grow the hell up.

[FragFrog]

Depends on what kind of Muslim you're talking about :tp: (Not all muslims want to kill you when you say 'Muhammed is gay', or at least I hope not lol).

But I agree with what you're saying. For the most part in their society, it's just plain fuked up O_o

Let's just hope things change for the best...

Greetings,
Boko

It is my understanding that:

1. Everyone not in their culture must die. Hence, every true muslim does not respect life, at least not that of a not-muslim.
2. They are rewarded 70 virgins if they die while killing non-muslims. Hence, dieing is an integral part of being a good muslim (why else should they be rewarded?).

Do note that in my humble opinion 70 virgins is somewhat of a bitch. I mean, I've dated a few and it usually takes ages to get them to sleep with you

And ofcourse not all muslims are like this, far from it probably. But that is only because most of them do have common sence and have realised that killing infidels is not the sollution. However, can someone like that be considered a true muslim when one of their guidelines and most of their leaders in fact state that they must kill infidels? It is like being a catholic and working on sunday, or a budhist and eating cow's I imagine: hypocritical crap.

If you want to believe in something, fine. But do not call yourself follower of a belief and not follow some of its rules just because they make no sence. If you have to do that, you should think again about why exactly you follow that believe in the first place.

Hence, all muslims are either crazy fundamentalists or hypocritical wanabees.

(ow, and just to make a point clear: I'm an atheist. I do not follow a certain religion, even though I have been a christian for the first 20 years of my life. In the end, I just didn't want to be a hypocritical wannabee.)

[Genryu]

Why is that everytime one muslim or couple of hundreds fuck up, the other muslims gotta pay, thats fucked up.
All the muslims I know(icluding my family)aren't near the shit you guys are saying so I don't get it,and no I'm not a crazy fundamentalist or hypocritical wanabee.I've been thinking and It looks like, this topic is just plain crap, talking about some crazy muslims , who think theý get-ta chance into heaven when they do things like that,hmm well give them the fault,I don't care, as always.

[DonTonberry]

My Aim In Life Is To Become A Police Officer. If I Saw Some Fucking Nobhead Holding Up Signs Saying "Death to the Infidels" In The Middle Of London, I'd Arrest The Fucker White, Black, Pakistani, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Rich or Fucking Poor. The Fact Is, Only Muslims Are Doing This In London. Boo Fucking Hoo Someone Made Cartoons About Islam, Jesus Fucking Christ Have You Ever Seen South Park? If Christians Bombed Embassy's And Threatened Or Even Killed People Because Someone Made Humour At Our Religion, There'd Me A Shitload Of People Dead.

Genryu, Are We Not Allowed To Voice OUR Opinion About Your Religion? We've Neither Been Racist Nor Stereotypical Since We've Been Talking About The Extremists Carrying Out The Attacks. Stop Getting So Defensive, Your Two Steps Away From Being A Sign Carrying Fucknut If You Carry On Getting The Hump Everytime Someone Doesn't Like Islam's Ass.


BTW The Cartoon's Were Shit - I'd Be More Offended That They Thought I'd Find It Funny.

I'm not saying this because I think it's right what they are doing (Because it's not. Who the hell sets fires to embassy's O_o), but you guys should consider what we did to them. For us, it's not a big deal that we printed those pictures in papers, because our culture is based on freedom of speech. That however, isn't the case with Muslims. They have a different culture and we should respect that.

Kiss My Ass - These Fuckers Are Living In Our Country's, They Should Obey And Live By Our Culture. We Should Not Bend Over To Please Them Incase Of Retribution Or Upsetting Them.

[Boko]

Cheers Don... *kisses his ass, as requested*

Although:

Kiss My Ass - These Fuckers Are Living In Our Country's, They Should Obey And Live By Our Culture. We Should Not Bend Over To Please Them Incase Of Retribution Or Upsetting Them.

Actually, our society also has some restrictions on 'Freedom of speech'. And I also wasnt saying it like we should obey them and not say anything. It just isn't a very good idea to do it, especially in the times we're living in (It's called respect. Maybe you think they don't deserve it, I dunno. But being friendly is always the better way to go).

To FragFrog though:

- I thought it was 7 virgins only? O_o whatever lol

-

However, can someone like that be considered a true muslim when one of their guidelines and most of their leaders in fact state that they must kill infidels? It is like being a catholic and working on sunday, or a budhist and eating cow's I imagine: hypocritical crap

The way you're saying it, it is almost as if their is only one real interpretation to the islamic (and also other) religions. That however, isn't the case. There are countless of ways to interprit the islam religion. In fact, as I've learned it at school, muslims are all about respecting life, not killing it. That's a way other muslims interprit it. That doesnt of course mean that all muslims do. Most of the muslims we see on the news are likely fundamentalists and extremists. But you shouldnt base an entire culture on what a few wackos are doing.

Besides, the "being a catholic and working on sunday" is crap. Catholics believe in Jesus and Jesus worked on sundays. I think you might have mistaken that with some other people ;)

I also follow the christian belief. I hope you don't think I'm a hypocritical wannabee...

Greetings,
Boko

[FragFrog]

The way you're saying it, it is almost as if their is only one real interpretation to the islamic (and also other) religions. That however, isn't the case. There are countless of ways to interprit the islam religion. In fact, as I've learned it at school, muslims are all about respecting life, not killing it. That's a way other muslims interprit it. That doesnt of course mean that all muslims do. Most of the muslims we see on the news are likely fundamentalists and extremists. But you shouldnt base an entire culture on what a few wackos are doing.

Quite possibly there are also other intepretations of the Islam and Koran that I am not aware of. Yet for some reason they insist on calling it 1 faith (even THE one faith). In christianity you also have wacko's, quite a lot of them even, but there are many different factions to christianity who, though they follow the same believe, share none of the others extremistic properties. I hereby propose we call all the muslim fundamentalist from now on 'towlieheads' and all the other ones simply muslims. That way, muslims are (relatively) good and we can still make fun of towlieheads without insulting an entire culture ;)

Besides, the "being a catholic and working on sunday" is crap. Catholics believe in Jesus and Jesus worked on sundays. I think you might have mistaken that with some other people ;)

I also follow the christian belief. I hope you don't think I'm a hypocritical wannabee...

My opinions about christianity are quite clear, but I will not voice them here since this isn't the right topic. However, a good catholic should not work on sunday, which is even in genesis (god rested on the 7th day of creation) and in quite a few other bible chapters as well (for example when Jesus is walking alongside a field with his deciples and some priests ask him if he doesn't find it offensive that his deciples are collecting grain on a sunday). Contrary to what you stated did Jesus not allow work on sunday, he just stated that common sence should be used in what you can and cannot do.

And yes, I do know most of the bible by heart, so don't even try argueing about that ;)

Anyway, believe what you think is right, I just urge you not to simply follow one belief just because your parents did. If you do that, you end up as a fundamentalist who doesn't know WHY he is doing what he does, just that his dad did it before him and his granddad before that etc etc all the way back to one idiot with a few disturbing ideas.

[Boko]

And yes, I do know most of the bible by heart, so don't even try argueing about that ;)

What else can we do but argue :tp:

Besides, it all comes down to interpretation. God rested on the 7th day, that doesnt mean WE have to ;) And the field part is just because the discipels have a different interpretation than Jesus. It's just all interpretation (And let's just say that I have a somewhat different view than most in my community). Let's not argue about it, because it'll end in interpretation shit anyways.

Anyway, believe what you think is right, I just urge you not to simply follow one belief just because your parents did

Couldnt have said it better. And I actually dont believe because my parents do, or because I was raised that way (My sister probably is, as far as I can tell). I actually wouldnt have been religious if I wasn't a 100% certain that God existed.

I can't prove to you that he exists, (and I know this is going to sound VERY weird) because I know he exists only because I've felt him. And just to make things clear, I'm not here to get you guys to be religious and all (I personally hate those guys, they're like forcing their opinions on to you. I mean, go do that to your children or people who ask for it or something). It's more like a personal experience. I'd tell you more about it, but that probably make things weirder than they already are (to you guys anyways).

To get on-topic: Best thing we can all do is appologise to one another (Europe and Middle East). You're probably gonna say 'Why the hell do we have to appologise!?!'. Let's just say that unless we stop being so fuking stubborn (we as in both our cultures) it'll end in things far worse than buildings burning down. And as sophisticated as we all think we are, maybe it's time to show some of that sophistication. Because until now, the only thing we've given the Middle East is reasons to get them mad.

You might think I'm an idiot, but isn't it in the best interest of us all that we live in peace? Might sound like a dumb question, but we're not really getting there.

Greetings,
Boko

[Josh]

And yes, I do know most of the bible by heart, so don't even try argueing about that ;)

I know the KumaSutra off by heart, but you dont see me boasting :D


Probably whatever I post will be taken the wrong way (somehow :dry:), so I won't post anything.
I'm not racist, sexist, etc either :P

[cameronmd]

no one should die because of something they believe in, if your religion says you gotta die for something then dont do it because why would a saviour make someone die? I cant really put what I mean out right but if you get what I mean try to say it better plz. But other then that our rules are alot better then their stupid "you do this stupid thing that doesnt really efect people, you die!!" if I'm misunderstanding them please says so.

[clicker]

IN the 16 or 17 century you can say that almost all faiths are a little bit radical just look at JOan of arc which was burned aliveor the so called witch by orders of a bishop or priest
Even Scientist like Galeleo( i forgot the spelling) cant publish his findings the earth revolves around the sun cause the church says that the sun and all heavenly bodies revolves on earth and earth is the center of all.. but by 19 and 20 century many faiths have adjusted many religious taboos bigotry which once punishishable by death are now just mere amusement or curiosity... even japan lost its belief that there emperor is god the last one in 19century.. but some have not change or adjust to conform with time

those authors who publish the caricature might have honestly think its just ok afther all in the western world jesus christ for example have been publish in a manner thats very "blasphemous" you can see that on magazines in roling stones, tabloids, even in playboy...in t -shirst just google it you cant see far more"blasphemous" pose....if you take the radical point of view..... just recently a book called da vinci code if you read it what do you think its gone to the extreme many got angry demostrated but did you SEE THE POPE ordered to kill the auhtor...in contrast i remember theres a book called satanic verses i think its a 1990s book im still playing lego at that time but im a fun news reader and the author was issued a religious order and who could kill the guy will go to heaven with heavenly rewards. if you compare the 2 books the latter is more extreme or we can say "blasphemous" in a sense.

IN western world or not realy western in a sense we can say Most of the world(20 century standard) you can practise and preach i say again preach openly your religion to yourself and to other ppl but sadly many countries like saudi you can pray there your faith but you cant preach there oh no religios police will cane you as my poor civil engineer uncle experience it there while working in that country he was accuse of preaching the bible but actually they are just praying there with some saudis freinds just watching..

now poor europe sooner or later will have a problem while it can accept immigrants and some times adopts the immigrants culture into there own culture which can be done easly as long its base on free will cultures... some habits and culture it cant adopt example parental marraige where fathers will decide whom there daughter can marry
(which sometime leads death and violence) this culture are practice by multiple faiths like ..exampl islam,hindus,etc,,.. polygamy maybe.. many moree blah blah blah:shutup3:

i think the world just gone crazy sooner or later its going more carzy and so on and on and on crazyer crazyeerr i think we need alien invaders here so all humans will unite and stop going nut..:shutup3:

[rambo3]

the title "Freedom vs Faith" nicely sums it up... so i guess its just a conflict of cultures

[xeLJoYo]

Im totally anti-religious, and basically regard religion as a method to make people believe in something to help them cope with the world.
As such, anyone who reacts so intensely over a religious issue, is hereby a retard.

[Boko]

Im totally anti-religious, and basically regard religion as a method to make people believe in something to help them cope with the world.
As such, anyone who reacts so intensely over a religious issue, is hereby a retard.

Well, it's not JUST a religious issue, that's the point of it all!

[xeLJoYo]

Well, it's not JUST a religious issue, that's the point of it all!

how is this not a religious issue?
this is as religious as it gets. Some Danes draw a cartoon, Muslims get mad cause they feel insulted. Tough luck for both of them. Kill eachother over it if you must, but leave me out of it.

[Boko]

how is this not a religious issue?
this is as religious as it gets. Some Danes draw a cartoon, Muslims get mad cause they feel insulted. Tough luck for both of them. Kill eachother over it if you must, but leave me out of it.

I never said it wasnt a religious issue. I said it wasnt JUST a religious issue. There's a difference ;)