In response to the "Move it if you want" thread...

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Originally Posted by maney

Theres only one way that you can stop this thing:

"When the buying stops the killing will too"

Target the buyers, not the killers.

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Yep. There's no reason to kill if no one's buying the end products.

That or get a change in the law that'll ban the sale of fur clothes, rugs etc.

I've reached a conclusion.
Im determined never to buy any real leather or fur ever again, and when I alone chose what food I buy for myself I'll become a vegetarian.

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Originally Posted by RsX

I've reached a conclusion.
Im determined never to buy any real leather or fur ever again, and when I alone chose what food I buy for myself I'll become a vegetarian.

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I respect you very much RsX.

I couldnt watch the film, choosing instead to read the posts.

I have been a strict vegetarian for many years, and bothers me that some ppl still find it funny or odd that i am. I dont give ppl an earache explaining why i choose not to buy leather or eat meat, instead im the one that gets fed up being judged for living by my beliefs. For ppl to say there is nothing they can do is not true. By choosing to not buy leather/fun/animal derivatives and eat meat you ARE helping. Helping in a BIG way. None-the-less i do understand that for some that sacrifice is too great, so I urge for people to buy cruelty-free products instead, ie: free range meat. here is a site some of you may find usefull if u wish to try help:
(im not allowed to post urls as this is my first post..so please just google 'stopping animal cruelty' where 5 posts down u will find 10 Things Teens Can Do to Help Stop Animal Cruelty and similar sites)

there are other sites where you can find ways, easy ways even. Sometimes just signing a petition is enough to get government to put forward public outcry in united nations talks. Animals are helpless, WE are NOT. If you feel compelled to help, DO!

I do not mean to preach. I have lived by my own believes quietly and privately only chosing to state them when asked.

Gl to all that decide not to think 'someone else will do something, i may as well just turn a blind eye'.

And again, respect to RsX for wishing to take action.

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Originally Posted by yeah

I respect you very much RsX.

I couldnt watch the film, choosing instead to read the posts.

I have been a strict vegetarian for many years, and bothers me that some ppl still find it funny or odd that i am. I dont give ppl an earache explaining why i choose not to buy leather or eat meat, instead im the one that gets fed up being judged for living by my beliefs. For ppl to say there is nothing they can do is not true. By choosing to not buy leather/fun/animal derivatives and eat meat you ARE helping. Helping in a BIG way. None-the-less i do understand that for some that sacrifice is too great, so I urge for people to buy cruelty-free products instead, ie: free range meat. here is a site some of you may find usefull if u wish to try help:
(im not allowed to post urls as this is my first post..so please just google 'stopping animal cruelty' where 5 posts down u will find 10 Things Teens Can Do to Help Stop Animal Cruelty and similar sites)

there are other sites where you can find ways, easy ways even. Sometimes just signing a petition is enough to get government to put forward public outcry in united nations talks. Animals are helpless, WE are NOT. If you feel compelled to help, DO!

I do not mean to preach. I have lived by my own believes quietly and privately only chosing to state them when asked.

Gl to all that decide not to think 'someone else will do something, i may as well just turn a blind eye'.

And again, respect to RsX for wishing to take action.

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Thanks :)
Plus, I just wanted to note that being vegetarian is also healthy, so you get many advantages for just one disadvantage - the taste.

Next time I walk by a Kentucky Fried Chicken and my mouth starts to water all I'll have to do is think of this video - think of how this food was really made.


There is one episode on South Park that really demonstrates this concept.
The kids were sad for the baby cows when they made them into veal.
They negotiated with the government and changed the name from veal to little tortured baby cow, and people stopped buying it completely and millions of baby cows were saved.

It just goes to show that if people could see what this "meat" was, and that this meat was once a living creature, they start understanding.

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Originally Posted by RsX

I've reached a conclusion.
Im determined never to buy any real leather or fur ever again, and when I alone chose what food I buy for myself I'll become a vegetarian.

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in my opinion that's a little harsh there RsX. Animals that are killed for meat are in no way possbile treated like that; it's quick, painless, and clean. Just because you saw that video doesn't mean every animal gets treated like that, and when you say becoming a vegetarian, for what? Because you saw animals you wouldn't normally eat become multilated? Now about fur....I don't wear any so I'm good.

imo RsX you need to let the stuff out of your system before thinking irrationally. I'm not saying vegetarians are wrong (although protein in veggies are difficult to get these days), but you need to think about how much that can hurt yourself by not eating meat, especially since it's meat from animals not shown in that video. :/

You know the meat in your area isn't like that, don't make yourself not eat it because of someone else.

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Originally Posted by The_Gatekeeper_

in my opinion that's a little harsh there RsX. Animals that are killed for meat are in no way possbile treated like that; it's quick, painless, and clean. Just because you saw that video doesn't mean every animal gets treated like that, and when you say becoming a vegetarian, for what? Because you saw animals you wouldn't normally eat become multilated? Now about fur....I don't wear any so I'm good.

imo RsX you need to let the stuff out of your system before thinking irrationally. I'm not saying vegetarians are wrong (although protein in veggies are difficult to get these days), but you need to think about how much that can hurt yourself by not eating meat, especially since it's meat from animals not shown in that video. :/

You know the meat in your area isn't like that, don't make yourself not eat it because of someone else.

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I didn't just finish watching the video and come to this conclusion.

I read up on it, it turns out that animals used for meat don't live lives. The second they are born they are put in cages, overfead, and stay there until they die. It's a life of waiting for death. In my opinion that is extremely horrible and I want to do something about it and I have come to this conclusion.

There is meat which is called open graze meat, which means that the cows were not put in cages the second they were born. They lived a normal life before they died and were used for meat. But this kind of meat is rare and costs hell of a lot.



So yeah.

IMO some people are taking this a little too far.
Not every animal is treated like this, jeez.

its not about trying to take it too far. What you do, is of course up to you. Nor am I suggesting ppl live strict lifestyles.

Although being a vegetarian is really simple lol..iono wot the fuss is. Actually i was vegan for quite a while, so vegi is simple stuff :p

And actually The_Gatekeeper, your misinformed about the ill effects of being vegi. People who are vegetarian are generally healthier. Most vegis are informed about their dietry requirements unlike most meat eaters who often dont give it a second thought. You get more protien from dairy and soya than meat, and more vit B12 from brazil nuts than meat could ever contain. People have often said our teeth are like they are for meat eating when in fact our teeth are actually formed for piercing fruit, those nice pointy ones we have that ppl call canines are infact incisors for piercing fruit not biting into flesh. As for the meat industry, most of the meat you eat will be from animals reared in overcrowed dark rooms (ie pigs..who are extremely intellegent btw..are often reared never seeing daylight so that the flesh is pinker when the animal is killed. Visually more attractive for the consumer), battery chickens and hens. Also its documented that often when animals are 'stunned' by the machine before skinned (stunning them means their is no internal bleeding or damaged skin/meat), it regularly is not enough and the animal wakes up during the skinning process. These are FACTS guys not fiction. And another fact for you is that to FULLy digest all traces of red meat from your body it takes 5 years, YES 5 years to break down. Thats why people often get compacted colones. If you wish to know more pls google 'How humans are not physically created to eat meat' (i cant post with the link as i have not made enough posts) But like I said before, if you are determined to eat something thats dead (for thats what you are doing) the least you can try do is eat something that is cruelty free/free-range.

If you wish to bury your head in the sand, that is your choice, but to say some ppl are taking it too far is narrow minded.

We are intellegent creatures (apparently) and thus we should be humane to other living creatures. We are not barbarians, we understand the implications of causing death and pain, so no matter what you say to yourself, this ISNT justified.

If I had to kill in order to survive, that would be a different issue, but i dont. There is so much good food at our disposal.

The OPTION to do something is yours, you have a choice, unlike animals.

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Originally Posted by yeah

its not about trying to take it too far. What you do, is of course up to you. Nor am I suggesting ppl live strict lifestyles.

Although being a vegetarian is really simple lol..iono wot the fuss is. Actually i was vegan for quite a while, so vegi is simple stuff :p

And actually The_Gatekeeper, your misinformed about the ill effects of being vegi. People who are vegetarian are generally healthier. Most vegis are informed about their dietry requirements unlike most meat eaters who often dont give it a second thought. You get more protien from dairy and soya than meat, and more vit B12 from brazil nuts than meat could ever contain. People have often said our teeth are like they are for meat eating when in fact our teeth are actually formed for piercing fruit, those nice pointy ones we have that ppl call canines are infact incisors for piercing fruit not biting into flesh. As for the meat industry, most of the meat you eat will be from animals reared in overcrowed dark rooms (ie pigs..who are extremely intellegent btw..are often reared never seeing daylight so that the flesh is pinker when the animal is killed. Visually more attractive for the consumer), battery chickens and hens. Also its documented that often when animals are 'stunned' by the machine before skinned (stunning them means their is no internal bleeding or damaged skin/meat), it regularly is not enough and the animal wakes up during the skinning process. These are FACTS guys not fiction. And another fact for you is that to FULLy digest all traces of red meat from your body it takes 5 years, YES 5 years to break down. Thats why people often get compacted colones. If you wish to know more pls google 'How humans are not physically created to eat meat' (i cant post with the link as i have not made enough posts) But like I said before, if you are determined to eat something thats dead (for thats what you are doing) the least you can try do is eat something that is cruelty free/free-range.

If you wish to bury your head in the sand, that is your choice, but to say some ppl are taking it too far is narrow minded.

We are intellegent creatures (apparently) and thus we should be humane to other living creatures. We are not barbarians, we understand the implications of causing death and pain, so no matter what you say to yourself, this ISNT justified.

If I had to kill in order to survive, that would be a different issue, but i dont. There is so much good food at our disposal.

The OPTION to do something is yours, you have a choice, unlike animals.

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Tell that to the vegetarians who are lactose inloerant and allergic to peanuts, and who the hell drink Soya? :p

True though, but meat and poutry contain a good bit of protein and something like Carrots are Celery wouldn't suffice. Yes Brazilian nuts are high in protein (I myself am obsessed with cashews ^_~), but so are Pork Rinds and they both have one thing in common; saturated fats and lots of it. Wouldn't it be a vegitarian if you ONLY ate vegitables, and not nuts and drank water and not dairy products? Besides I always thought it was unholy (for vegitarians) to drink from the utters of who that didn't sink their teeth into.

I never weared fur ;P too expensive xD

genryu your comments are so fucking stupid, you might aswell shut up.

And i tottaly agree with "yeah"

http://www.petitiononline.com/122288R/petition.html

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http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video....=wm&speed=_med

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Originally Posted by The_Gatekeeper_

Tell that to the vegetarians who are lactose inloerant and allergic to peanuts, and who the hell drink Soya? :p

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If you are Lacto-intolorant there are plenty of different dairy substitute options. Including goats-milk based products, no-dairy calcium enriched rice milk/products and of course soya. The problem is most ppl dont bother to check out the options and try other products because they go with what they are brought up on, or what advertising/peer groups consider acceptable. Often we eat with our eyes, if our brain tells us its supposed to be delicious then we enjoy it more. Our palate can be re-educated, and I now gag at the idea/smell of certain foods. I for one actually ENJOY drinking soya, as milk seems gloopy and gross to me, but soya isnt just a drink. A lot of cereals are soya enriched for example..

but anyway..i just find your comments interesting only because u reflect the general public viewpoint. Which is a viewpoint based on little knowledge and research. People actually dont take an interest thats the problem, as they are happy to live with the blissful ignorance that the burger they are sinking their teeth into disguised with all manner of seasonings and sauces was once a living breathing creature badly treated for a quick snack.

I dont mean to sound the extremist here, but of course this topic touches my beliefs, and I KNOW why i dont eat meat or live like i do, I certainly cannot be accused of following a trend or being missinformed. But many of you eat meat because ur conditioned to believe its what we should do. If humans were true carnivors they would eat their meat raw and drink the blood, but as a gen rule we consider it disgusting. Prefering instead to season and cook it. Carnivors would not eat an animal burned and cooked in a forest fire. The nutrients they receive is from raw meat. We are nothing akin to these animals, we are infact herbivores that have deviated.

Well, I realise most of you must be sick of my ranting. But its just that im am truly informend in this area, and i know the arguments that the general population put across without actual research.

Plus living a humane lifestyle is not depriving yourself, you'd be surprised how easy it is AND how enjoyable if you knew the options. None-the-less there are ways in which people can HELP without living the way i do. The wrong thing would be to turn a blind eye completely.

p.s

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True though, but meat and poutry contain a good bit of protein and something like Carrots are Celery wouldn't suffice. Yes Brazilian nuts are high in protein (I myself am obsessed with cashews ^_~), but so are Pork Rinds and they both have one thing in common; saturated fats and lots of it. Wouldn't it be a vegitarian if you ONLY ate vegitables, and not nuts and drank water and not dairy products? Besides I always thought it was unholy (for vegitarians) to drink from the utters of who that didn't sink their teeth into.

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eating no dairy/soley eating vegitables etc is vegan. Vegitarianism gen accepts dairy. The dairy products true veg eats come from animals that are humainly treated, and eating cheese with non-animal renit.

Most foods contain at least some protein. Good sources of protein for vegetarians include nuts(so long as not allergic) and seeds, pulses, soya products (tofu, soya milk and textured soya protein such as soya mince), cereals (wheat, oats, and rice), free-range eggs and some dairy products (milk, cheese and yoghurt).

Most meat eaters over consume protien and for strict vegitarians they rarely have saturated fat in their diets. Vegitarian diets result in a low cholesteral diet.

Basically, again, its about being informed.

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Originally Posted by RsX

I've reached a conclusion.
Im determined never to buy any real leather or fur ever again, and when I alone chose what food I buy for myself I'll become a vegetarian.

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As good as a conclusion it may be, check out the keywords...

You see, even though real fur is more expensive you never quite know do you? Unless the fur is really cheap. If i were to make that conclusion i just wouldn't buy fur.

Although seeing that video i still eat meat today. Yes, animals do get totured before being killed but it's the food chain. It's your own personal desicion to become a vegitarian or stop eating meat, i respect that. But how many lives can you change if only you do it? See what i mean? You can become a Vegitarian...but i'm not. I dont think i ever will.

There is no real solution other than donation.

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Originally Posted by NoOxygen

genryu your comments are so fucking stupid, you might aswell shut up.

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Thank you >_> but this thread existed because I showed the link

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Originally Posted by Zetal

Yes, animals do get totured before being killed but it's the food chain.


There is no real solution other than donation.

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OK, you already know i could rant forever on this subject. :S Hard for me to keep stoom on this.

Re: 'the food chain' If you had read my previous post you would know this is a false belief. THis food chain..as in humans eating meat..is infact a deviant. We are NOT supposed to eat meat. Period. OUr bodies suffer because of it. And the way we kill is not natural. There is NO natural food chain process here, so dont kid yourself.

There is a 'real' solution, even if you do not wish to give up eating meat. YOu can be informed about what you are eating, about what products you are buying etc. Buying from companies that do not get involved in harsh animal testing will help. THere is no point in donating when you go buy the products that are being dripped into rabbits eyes for example. For heavens sake, the only appeal I am stating here is for people to wake up and smell the coffee on this topic, not to become martyrs. Just be informed. Take time to read what 'easy' changes you can make. Like buying (or asking your parents) to buy free range or washing powder that isnt from companies such as Proctor & Gamble. Many of the alternative cruelty-free products are on your supermarket shelves, and dont actually cost more.

Is a little time researching so hard to do?

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I will add a personal comment tho...cant help myself. Many years ago when i first became vegetarian (I grew up in a small town) my family and friends scoffed saying it would make no difference. With time the vegetarian market has grown, with vegetarian foods now common place in supermarkets and restuarants. Its been a constant slow process, but the world is changing with time. I believe that in the future the change will happen albiet maybe in a centuary. I believe people will look back agast and wonder how we actually ate meat in the same way the majority of ppl look back and think how barbaric it was to consider a person with darker skin as less important (and slaves) than someone with white skin. Exteme tho most of you think this point of view is, remember that all radical opinions that were actually for the betterment of society have always been scoffed at and considered extreme at first.