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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Christianity and Islam both has the same foundation. They believe in the same God. The difference lies in how they are practiced. Islam has a very strict set of rules. They can't change it. Christianity has changed every time someone felt like changing it over the past 2000 years. I do not deny that there are a lot of negative things about Christianity. I am not a Christian myself. But Christianity is a religion that centers around the individual, unlike Islam which centers around society. Christianity can be interpreted and practiced in pretty much any way a person wants, Islam can't. Therefore Islam hinders societal development a lot more than any religion does.
It doesn't. Like I said before, take a look at Turkey, they've been becoming more and more western.
As for changing it, why should it be changed, if God is all knowing, then why would his words be any less true today. If anything, the Islam atleast keeps things as they were intended, the interpretation should however change and that has, hence by far the majority of Muslims are not terrorists trying to execute the litteral words in the Qu'ran.
Yes quite a few countries who can be considered Muslim countries do need to evolve, but like I said, take a look at western countries 50-100 years ago. The way I see it, aslong as they are making progress and the majority does not want war or anything like that, then they should be free to evolve in a way they feel comfortable with.
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The Bible is a compilation of texts. After the introduction of the New Testament, much of the Old Testament's teachings became obsolete. It's a true chaos. Through chaos there is freedom.
But God is all knowing, meaning the old testament is either full of lies, or God is not all knowing. Either way Christians should accept the old testament as real, or find themselves a new religion, because if some of it is fake, all of it could be.
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The Qu'Ran was written in Arabic. Technically, it cannot be translated because Muslims believe the words are divine and written in such a way that it cannot be imitated or be properly translated into other languages. Therefore English translations should only be treated as interpretations. A lot of Muslims learn Arabic because of this very reason.
Which makes sense. I mean I hate Dutch subtitles, I haven't needed them for a long time, but back when I did, I always prefered English subtitles, when you are watching a comedy, then when it gets translated you will miss puns or you will get different jokes etc, because a literal translation doesn't work.
Now imagine a holy book, if it gets translated then it can never be as accurate as the original and if you believe those are the words of God, do you really want someone else to translate it? Or do you want the actual words.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
Time to bring in another important fact that we all seem to overlook,
This isnt just about the burning of books, it is about the counter attack to that, and the counter attack to the counterattack and the attack against and so the road goes ever on.
Retaliation.
Burn a holy book, get yours burned. Burn a Mosque, get yours burned. Burn a muslim, get yourself burned who knows till where it goes on. It wouldn't be the first time that such events take place.
What is the actual essence of this event, to cause hate, what does hate cause? violence.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...arsonists.html
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
GohanSSJ
It doesn't. Like I said before, take a look at Turkey, they've been becoming more and more western.
As for changing it, why should it be changed, if God is all knowing, then why would his words be any less true today. If anything, the Islam atleast keeps things as they were intended, the interpretation should however change and that has, hence by far the majority of Muslims are not terrorists trying to execute the litteral words in the Qu'ran.
Yes quite a few countries who can be considered Muslim countries do need to evolve, but like I said, take a look at western countries 50-100 years ago. The way I see it, aslong as they are making progress and the majority does not want war or anything like that, then they should be free to evolve in a way they feel comfortable with.
Turkey is actually a really secular country. It is not an Islamic country like Pakistan, Iran or Saudi-Arabia. They work hard to avoid having Islamic influence on their politics, despite the large Muslim population.
[quote=GohanSSJ;5900049]But God is all knowing, meaning the old testament is either full of lies, or God is not all knowing. Either way Christians should accept the old testament as real, or find themselves a new religion, because if some of it is fake, all of it could be.
Some of the reason Christ came was to introduce a new concept to the religion; forgive and retribution. Most, if not all, of God's vile actions in the Old Testament was revenge for something. When Christ came, he preached of forgiving the sinner.
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Originally Posted by
GohanSSJ
Which makes sense. I mean I hate Dutch subtitles, I haven't needed them for a long time, but back when I did, I always prefered English subtitles, when you are watching a comedy, then when it gets translated you will miss puns or you will get different jokes etc, because a literal translation doesn't work.
Now imagine a holy book, if it gets translated then it can never be as accurate as the original and if you believe those are the words of God, do you really want someone else to translate it? Or do you want the actual words.
Yeah, it makes sense. But that also means that the Qu'Ran today is the exact same Qu'Ran as 1400 years ago, and society has developed a lot since then. This was before globalization, the Internet and international laws against war crimes.
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Originally Posted by
EnhanceGFX
Time to bring in another important fact that we all seem to overlook,
This isnt just about the burning of books, it is about the counter attack to that, and the counter attack to the counterattack and the attack against and so the road goes ever on.
Retaliation.
Burn a holy book, get yours burned. Burn a Mosque, get yours burned. Burn a muslim, get yourself burned who knows till where it goes on. It wouldn't be the first time that such events take place.
What is the actual essence of this event, to cause hate, what does hate cause? violence.
Mosque burned to the ground by arsonists - Telegraph
In the civilized world we have realized that revenge solves nothing. We shouldn't fear violence for using our freedom of speech. That's the difference between us and you, and it is why our society has managed to develop better.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
[quote=Mr.Lucifer;5900146]Turkey is actually a really secular country. It is not an Islamic country like Pakistan, Iran or Saudi-Arabia. They work hard to avoid having Islamic influence on their politics, despite the large Muslim population.
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Originally Posted by
GohanSSJ
But God is all knowing, meaning the old testament is either full of lies, or God is not all knowing. Either way Christians should accept the old testament as real, or find themselves a new religion, because if some of it is fake, all of it could be.
Some of the reason Christ came was to introduce a new concept to the religion; forgive and retribution. Most, if not all, of God's vile actions in the Old Testament was revenge for something. When Christ came, he preached of forgiving the sinner.
Yeah, it makes sense. But that also means that the Qu'Ran today is the exact same Qu'Ran as 1400 years ago, and society has developed a lot since then. This was before globalization, the Internet and international laws against war crimes.
In the civilized world we have realized that revenge solves nothing. We shouldn't fear violence for using our freedom of speech. That's the difference between us and you, and it is why our society has managed to develop better.
Burning holy buildings and books is not speech anymore.
Speech is words, this is acting, an act of violence.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
Freedom of speech is synonymous with freedom of expression, which includes non-violent acts such as flag and book burning.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
Mr.Lucifer
Freedom of speech is synonymous with freedom of expression, which includes non-violent acts such as flag and book burning.
And mosque burning.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
Burning mosques go under violent act or vandalism. Let's try to use our brains.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
Mr.Lucifer
Burning mosques go under violent act or vandalism. Let's try to use our brains.
Which seems to be the next step.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Turkey is actually a really secular country. It is not an Islamic country like Pakistan, Iran or Saudi-Arabia. They work hard to avoid having Islamic influence on their politics, despite the large Muslim population.
My point exactly.
They have a seperation of church and state, yet it's obviously a Islamic country, just like how most, if not all, of the western countries are Christian, especially countries like the US. While a religion might not govern directly anymore, those in charge are largely Christian not to mention that whether people are Christian or not, it has influenced us all.
Our version of freedom now (go through the history books and you will see a lot of claims of freedom which we wouldn't consider as freedom today), is spreading, but it takes time, it will eventually reach the whole world. But you can't expect countries in the middle east to just switch around, their culture is different to ours, they will eventually change, but not by force.
Again, Turkey is a good example of that, due to their position they have become more western much faster then other countries, you can also see a difference between the western side of it and the east side.
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Some of the reason Christ came was to introduce a new concept to the religion; forgive and retribution. Most, if not all, of God's vile actions in the Old Testament was revenge for something. When Christ came, he preached of forgiving the sinner.
But like I said, God is all knowing and good. Besides if I'm not mistaken the new testament still speaks of hell etc for those that do not believe in him.
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Yeah, it makes sense. But that also means that the Qu'Ran today is the exact same Qu'Ran as 1400 years ago, and society has developed a lot since then. This was before globalization, the Internet and international laws against war crimes.
And like I said, Islamic countries have grown with it, changing their ways and interpretations.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
GohanSSJ
My point exactly.
They have a seperation of church and state, yet it's obviously a Islamic country, just like how most, if not all, of the western countries are Christian, especially countries like the US. While a religion might not govern directly anymore, those in charge are largely Christian not to mention that whether people are Christian or not, it has influenced us all.
Our version of freedom now (go through the history books and you will see a lot of claims of freedom which we wouldn't consider as freedom today), is spreading, but it takes time, it will eventually reach the whole world. But you can't expect countries in the middle east to just switch around, their culture is different to ours, they will eventually change, but not by force.
Again, Turkey is a good example of that, due to their position they have become more western much faster then other countries, you can also see a difference between the western side of it and the east side.
Turkey is not Islamic. There are just a lot of Muslims living there although the Muslims who live in Turkey are far more "Muslim by tradition" than in the other Muslim countries. Turkey has an unique history that permits such secularity.
It's naive to believe that the way we have developed into freedom is the only way to develop. That every civilization will eventually become like us. While I do agree that forcing into developing usually ends badly, it is some times the only option. Islamic countries are becoming a threat to our freedom.
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Originally Posted by
GohanSSJ
But like I said, God is all knowing and good. Besides if I'm not mistaken the new testament still speaks of hell etc for those that do not believe in him.
And like I said, Islamic countries have grown with it, changing their ways and interpretations.
On the contrary, Pakistan still cannot take up loans they desperately needs because Islam forbids paying interest.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
EnhanceGFX
Right now you are yabbing a pile of nonsense in a mediocre attempt to escape argumentation after i have proven your dumb statements incredibly wrong. And the most funny part of all this is, we both weren't born during both of those wars, not even near birth.
infact, not even during the cold war, yet you seem to know little about your country.
He's talking perfect sense, even in this very quote you are using words you clearly don't know the definition of, jus throwing them out there and hoping it means something.
I say it again, you are a moron.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
Canon
He's talking perfect sense, even in this very quote you are using words you clearly don't know the definition of, jus throwing them out there and hoping it means something.
I say it again, you are a moron.
You tend to join in again with your random remarks while your not even attending the actual subject?
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
EnhanceGFX
You tend to join in again with your random remarks while your not even attending the actual subject?
We are so far from the subject now it is laughable.
Here's something for you to think about. This world is full of assholes and idiots, this sort of thing is going to happen, and it's going to happen alot. If you are so offended by it, feel free to leave, as in, /suicide.
Don't come onto a forum and just talk shit. Go be miserable by yourselves and let the rest of us get on with life and stop being such arrogant whiney little pricks.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
Canon
We are so far from the subject now it is laughable.
Here's something for you to think about. This world is full of assholes and idiots, this sort of thing is going to happen, and it's going to happen alot. If you are so offended by it, feel free to leave, as in, /suicide.
Don't come onto a forum and just talk shit. Go be miserable by yourselves and let the rest of us get on with life and stop being such arrogant whiney little pricks.
Brings me back to stating that you are talking out of a fatman on a chair perspective, not to forget, you mentioned that your country had no president, aka your not even in the US, and you don't seem to be muslim either, brings me back to:
"Randomly making remarks about both parties in an attempt to troll while not even being a part of the subject of conversation;
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
So you're saying you have to belong to one of the groups to partake in the discussion? Really, EnchanceGFX, stop debating. You can't do it. The reason Internet debates can be interesting is that people from all kind of backgrounds join together without a predetermined opinion, allowing far more diversity in the debate. That is something you as a Muslim wouldn't understand because Muslims don't care about anything but issues involving Islam.
And FYI: I'm a Norwegian and a non-Muslim so I am as ineligible as Canon.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
Mr.Lucifer
So you're saying you have to belong to one of the groups to partake in the discussion? Really, EnchanceGFX, stop debating. You can't do it. The reason Internet debates can be interesting is that people from all kind of backgrounds join together without a predetermined opinion, allowing far more diversity in the debate. That is something you as a Muslim wouldn't understand because Muslims don't care about anything but issues involving Islam.
And FYI: I'm a Norwegian and a non-Muslim so I am as ineligible as Canon.
Yet happens to be so that you search and post decent things worth reading and replying to, and it happens to be that you know what you are talking of.
That is the only difference sufficient to make a difference and kill your argument.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
EnhanceGFX
Yet happens to be so that you search and post decent things worth reading and replying to, and it happens to be that you know what you are talking of.
That is the only difference sufficient to make a difference and kill your argument.
LOL, did he just say this? Canon knows, trust me.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
Shinija
LOL, did he just say this? Canon knows, trust me.
If he "Knows" then he should start acting like he knows.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
Mr.Lucifer
Turkey is not Islamic. There are just a lot of Muslims living there although the Muslims who live in Turkey are far more "Muslim by tradition" than in the other Muslim countries. Turkey has an unique history that permits such secularity.
It's naive to believe that the way we have developed into freedom is the only way to develop. That every civilization will eventually become like us. While I do agree that forcing into developing usually ends badly, it is some times the only option. Islamic countries are becoming a threat to our freedom.
On the contrary, Pakistan still cannot take up loans they desperately needs because Islam forbids paying interest.
A lot? 99% of their people is registered as Muslim.
And no, they won't become like us, every culture is unique, that includes all the western countries, however they will eventually fit more into what we see as normal, the same goes for countries like China etc.
They all just need to grow.
If you actually do believe they are becoming a threat, then I suggest you take God's word litteraly and start murdering them all...
If not, then give them the room to grow just like we did, western countries have a history of blood, murder, intolerance, slavery etc etc, what makes you so sure they won't grow like we did?
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
what religion is china anyway?
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
Looks like the largest religion there is Buddhism, however there is no accurate amount of how many people follow it, estimates are between 10 and 30%.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
Actually Spain was also a Muslim country before.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
on the military end of this, intel reports (along with common sense) that those radicals who will take part in burning the Qur'an, those Islam radicals who will witness it will make an example of them.
They want us to act like this to give them a reason to blow us all up. If you're a civilian and you're a little worried, imagine being the Marines who will go to fight the hornet's nest of radials head-on.
Also I would like to point out that if the debate starts to end up being two people arguing over posts not related to the subject that entitles this thread, please re-frame from your immaturity it's just a forum. My comment is about such arguments is not up for debate. no pun intended.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
Osama biladin is a fkin terrorist bitch ass, he is bring shit to muslims. He probably thinks he will fking go to heaven with the stuff he does, blow up innocent people and collapsing down buildings, he is probably brainly fked up and this is not even allowed in our religion (islam), killing people for no shit will be going to hell 100% sure. Look at people in pakistan, growing weed and making drugs to sell it to get money to buy weapons to kill american troops or w/e. this is not even something to be proud of and they expect there self to be blessed by god for doing this, its bull shit and crap, sometimes i feel this religion is fking people's brain and making arab people unable to develop because people are making shit out of there mind but i don't even give a shit about what they say, any way i can't leave this religion cz my life later on will probably be fked up..
Me and my friend where discussing what is written on the quran and what is written in bible book, actually there was no difference, the only difference is that in quran its forbidden'd to eat ham and to gamble. I believe this rules was also in the bible but old priests changed probably like everything and which makes it hard for some people believe that a religion like islam exists and a prophet called Mohammed exsits, since it was removed from the bible. Christians has no problems against Muslims until Osama fked up all of our societies, the most racist people to arabs and muslims are jewish people. Which i mostly don't like them cz they judge people on crap.
Probably if i know Osama biladin's place, i would fking report you think i will give a shit?
Muslims will not take any action if they burn the Quran not that they will take the bible and burn it. ofc not cz its a religion and it is probably the most fked up thing you will do and you will be fked badly at judgment day, it will just lead to more political problems.
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Re: Koran burning day on 9/11
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Originally Posted by
MoeZe
Osama biladin is a fkin terrorist bitch ass, he is bring shit to muslims. He probably thinks he will fking go to heaven with the stuff he does, blow up innocent people and collapsing down buildings, he is probably brainly fked up and this is not even allowed in our religion (islam), killing people for no shit will be going to hell 100% sure. Look at people in pakistan, growing weed and making drugs to sell it to get money to buy weapons to kill american troops or w/e. this is not even something to be proud of and they expect there self to be blessed by god for doing this, its bull shit and crap, sometimes i feel this religion is fking people's brain and making arab people unable to develop because people are making shit out of there mind but i don't even give a shit about what they say, any way i can't leave this religion cz my life later on will probably be fked up..
Me and my friend where discussing what is written on the quran and what is written in bible book, actually there was no difference, the only difference is that in quran its forbidden'd to eat ham and to gamble. I believe this rules was also in the bible but old priests changed probably like everything and which makes it hard for some people believe that a religion like islam exists and a prophet called Mohammed exsits, since it was removed from the bible. Christians has no problems against Muslims until Osama fked up all of our societies, the most racist people to arabs and muslims are jewish people. Which i mostly don't like them cz they judge people on crap.
Probably if i know Osama biladin's place, i would fking report you think i will give a shit?
You obviously don't know shit, I would give my two cents but who gives a crap what I have to say.
