The Zeitgeist Movement

Communism, corrupt or not, is not the way to go. Equality can NEVER be achieved, simply because we are NOT equal. Some people are more intelligent, stronger, faster etc.. than others and that is the way of the world, it is our inequalities and our differences that make the world an interesting place. These characteristics of human beings has given rise to competition between each other and a striving for success which has lead to progression as a species (take the Space Race and World Wars as examples; the amount of technology born from those periods was enormous).

If we were all the same, the world would be a stale and boring place with next to no progression at all.

And I don't think human beings are evil by nature. Evil is a subjective term anyway, so it cannot be used in absolute to describe an entire species. Yes, people are selfish by nature, but that is not the same as being evil. By being selfish, we survive, we look out for ourselves, our friends and our family (especially our children because the needs of the next generation surpasses that of our own); it's an evolutionary imperative.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hydra

Communism, corrupt or not, is not the way to go. Equality can NEVER be achieved, simply because we are NOT equal. Some people are more intelligent, stronger, faster etc.. than others and that is the way of the world, it is our inequalities and our differences that make the world an interesting place. These characteristics of human beings has given rise to competition between each other and a striving for success which has lead to progression as a species (take the Space Race and World Wars as examples; the amount of technology born from those periods was enormous).

If we were all the same, the world would be a stale and boring place with next to no progression at all.

And I don't think human beings are evil by nature. Evil is a subjective term anyway, so it cannot be used in absolute to describe an entire species. Yes, people are selfish by nature, but that is not the same as being evil. By being selfish, we survive, we look out for ourselves, our friends and our family (especially our children because the needs of the next generation surpasses that of our own); it's an evolutionary imperative.

---

Communism's great on paper, terrible in practice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hydra

For someone who's "not quite good at English," you've just made the most sense I've seen in this thread.

The Zeitgeist Movement, in my opinion, is a pipe-dream of a perfect world.

We will never have such a world due to the competitive behaviour of humans (which is instilled in us through nature/natural selection/evolution and not because of the monetary system as the movie has us believe - read Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene which explains in-part what I'm trying to say).

The notion that a select few "engineers/technicians/scientists" would work for humanity out of complete selflessness is again, a pipe dream. Yes, I'm sure they would reason that by 'fixing the machine' they will be in-turn benefiting themselves as well as the rest of society, but they will soon come to question ''why should we do all the work for the rest of this idle society?'.

Ever been pissed off that your hard earned money gets taken off you via tax and soaked up by those lazy people claiming benefits off of the government for refusing to work (jobseekers allowance)? Same thing.

Also, with this kind of society - laying back and allowing 'technology' to solve all of our problems - aside from being impossible, would cause the world to fall into idleness and ignorance (vannaroth gets credit for pointing this out).

Why is it impossible you ask?

For example, thousands of people would be required to 'work' (full-time in many roles) in order for these technologies to be operational. Pilots, conductors, engineers, maintenance/repair guys, scientists, teachers etc... would be needed to operate/repair this technology and teach others to do the same. And everyone involved in this would have to do it all for "the good of society as a whole". So these people get to 'waste' their lives just so the majority of the population can sit in their mansions and soak up everything for free? Isn't this exactly what the Zeitgeist movement is trying to prevent? Apart from the majority/minority is switched in today's world (many people work and a few get to reap the rewards), though at least with the current system the worker gets something to show for his/her efforts (i.e. money to spend on themselves).

There has ALWAYS been some sort of trading system in human society. Whether it was gold, land, food, slaves or indeed money, it has always been there. Why? Because we need it in order to form a structured society and we need it for motivation. A lot of people are motivated by the prospect of more money (or more of the things money buys) and without that motivation, society would not progress as quickly as it does, if at all. Society also needs leadership, and without it, chaos would ensue.

Yes, there are many holes and problems with the current system, and it should be changed, but I think this way is not the answer. Human (and any other animal) society has always been about survival of the fittest, and most people will exploit any system if they can, so there is no answer to the perfect world - it doesn't exist.

I personally don't have many problems with the current system, it rewards those who put in the effort and those who figured out how to manipulate it. The people at the top of society (rich business owners and politicians) would not agree with this and those that conjured the Zeitgeist Movement (and many who endorse it) would not agree if they were to make it to the top.

This seems to me as a solution for those who are not willing to work for a living, or those who have grown up dreaming of living in a mansion and driving a Ferrari but have only just come to see that it's never going to happen for them. I just don't think this so-called revolution has been thought out very much, it seems to me that it's idealistic and very ignorant of its repercussions.

I apologise for the sporadic nature of my response, I had to end it abruptly due to the fact that I'm off out now :P.

---

best post in the whole thread

this is so true i already understood most of it but alot of this is new information and i'm definitly gonna tell my friends about this

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KyleEnos

Communism's great on paper, terrible in practice.

---

may be beacuse the ones that have lead the biggest comunist gov where idiots xD

But u cant say 100% that capitalism is perfect

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tedelex06

the video never said that you shouldnt work, just not to work in currupt organisations like major banks and governments.

---

Zeitgeist basicly say everything big is corrupt, without proof.

I hereby claim the Zeitgeist is corrupt and the founders are corrupt and wish to be dictators of the world.
You will now belive me, since you belive everything on the internet is true.

If you want me to prove it, I ask you to prove why banks and governments are corrupt. Neither of us can prove it, thus returning to square one, where common sense applies.

Common sense says Major banks and governments are NOT corrupt, since it's not common sense to wear a tinfoil hat and be super paranoid as Mental/Excladimo is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vannaroth

you have to understand that the people behind Zeitgeist are some of the most intellectually dishonest individuals you will ever encounter. They don't care about other viewpoints. The whole movement resembles a faith more than anything else.

---

Well said. And while we're at it, that's very common for people who craft propaganda.

I still think alot of the High School kids in this thread totally missed out on what propaganda means.

Go read a book, on paper, in the living room, without a computer. You might learn something.

Quote:

---

I personally don't have many problems with the current system, it rewards those who put in the effort and those who figured out how to manipulate it. The people at the top of society (rich business owners and politicians) would not agree with this and those that conjured the Zeitgeist Movement (and many who endorse it) would not agree if they were to make it to the top.

This seems to me as a solution for those who are not willing to work for a living, or those who have grown up dreaming of living in a mansion and driving a Ferrari but have only just come to see that it's never going to happen for them. I just don't think this so-called revolution has been thought out very much, it seems to me that it's idealistic and very ignorant of its repercussions.

---

QFT

im sorry mods for not participating to the team becosa im very busy ryt now

To those, who think equality can't be achieved and people aren't equal:

That's right. With these conditions that build up our life, we will never be equal. But people are equal, if threated equally.
One might have born somewhere in Africa and another in New York. Does it give them different rights? I don't think that's right.

To those, who think "human nature" won't allow to achieve this:

There's no such thing as "human nature"... it's only human behaviour, the way we've grown up. Watch the movie a couple of times. It's been said there that in the Roman culture, families with children would watch Christians being eaten by lions, and that would be their entertainment. Human behaviour, not human nature - the way their surrounding world (either in small scale, a community, or a large, the whole world) makes us behave.
With that said, greed and evilness is the human behaviour, that one adopts from their surrounding society. With a new society, it's possible to minimize greed and evilness, as there would be no money, and everyone would get what they want.
Of course, all of that wouldn't happen all out of sudden, it would take time, but it's possible.

Why would people want to work?

What do you do when you have nothing to do? Ok, many of you play computer games etc. - but not all the time, right?
People get ideas, ideas they want to realize. Other people might appreciate new ideas and help to realize them. Self-employement in the highest degree, I'd say.

I don't expect people to understand the motivation to work, but with a new school system, it would be possible. A new school system where people would be taught that work is just as creative as arts, which it is, if there's no reward for it. Make something and share it with the rest. Why not? Pleasure of giving something to others - ever felt that? I have, and I like it :)

Government?

Not in the way we have it now. People would decide over themselves, probably in smaller communities, like cities... it would be shaped by the people themselves, as they decide.

There are many questions, and many possible answers. Here's the FAQ page of the Zeitgeist Movement: http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/faq-home.htm

Remember, if you read or write something, it's an opinion. There are no facts about the future, because it doesn't exist... yet...

Got bored after 5 minutes. Stopped watching, no idea what it's supposed to be about. Seems like a load of bollocks.

The Movie Really Touched Me

Watched it before though...


@Vans,it's all about how the government uses you,the ones that's behind everything,behind politics or anything you could imagine.People that haven't at least watched such documentaries,has no point in takin' human rights seriously.

This movie is very very true, its useful for those bomb happy and narrow minded ppl to watch....

I truely doubt this/these problems would be cured until thousands or even million years later.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by -=DooMeR=-

I truely doubt this/these problems would be cured until thousands or even million years later.

---

That's why action is needed. Without acting, the problems won't get solved.

Don't know about you guys but I'm not just sitting around. I aim to have fun and help others.

Quote:

---

To those, who think "human nature" won't allow to achieve this:

There's no such thing as "human nature"... it's only human behaviour, the way we've grown up. Watch the movie a couple of times. It's been said there that in the Roman culture, families with children would watch Christians being eaten by lions, and that would be their entertainment. Human behaviour, not human nature - the way their surrounding world (either in small scale, a community, or a large, the whole world) makes us behave.
With that said, greed and evilness is the human behaviour, that one adopts from their surrounding society. With a new society, it's possible to minimize greed and evilness, as there would be no money, and everyone would get what they want.
Of course, all of that wouldn't happen all out of sudden, it would take time, but it's possible.

---

what makes you believe there is no such thing as human nature? You seem to have ripped that directly from the film, and the film seems to have plucked it out of nowhere. It is ridiculous to assume that a human being is merely a blank slate. If behaviour is the result of localised environment, then why are certain traits consistent throughout all cultures, and in some cases indeed species? Among those included is greed. it's a logical trait, an extension of the natural will to survive - when 'need' inevitably turns into 'want'. You can call it human behaviour, and indeed it is strictly speaking, but if it is invariant throughout all cultures in all of history - then what meaningful distinction is there?