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New World Order? Have you even watched the video?
Also, ask yourself this question, who does anyone NOT want to live in such a world? The people that are powerful now, of course, who else would deny such a world is great, if it could exist.
How could you guys not see the point of the video?
A world where the need for jobs is eliminated because everything is automated? A word with no limits on consumption because there is no money? A world doomed from the start because of the strain on finite resources? A world based on the huge assumption that everyone on the planet will reach some vague 'new consciousness'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daevius
come on surely you can see the problems with this
I don't, as I don't think retards should have it easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daevius
There, your first very problem. How do you fit me into socity :)
I'm 110% sure you cannot come up with a solution that doesn't either involve killing me, or using a solution that the current world order allready uses (such as letting the majority deside, democracy)
Special classes and jobs set aside for you, disability benefits for your mental handicap, and it will be done so that we may alleviate our sense of guilt at having lacked the mercy to abort you as a fetus, effectively preventing your acting as a plague upon the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
Is that a suitable suggestion, DeathArt?
At your comment made in the previous page of this thread, declaring yourself an intellectual elitist... I assure you, you are a pseudo-intellectual, at best.
A strong society, comprised of strong individuals, will care for its weakest members, under the philosophy that the weakest link defines the whole. Destroying the weakest bits until they are all gone results in a collapsed society. So giving you disability benefits to make myself feel better suits me just fine, even if it results in my having to work five or ten more hours a week. ^^
HI!
Like alot of ppl here i'm gonna give my opinion, even if it's a stupid one... (NOT POINTING OUT FINGERS)
There something wrong with the "Monetary system", not just in the US but everywhere, but isn't something wrong with this system also? Will corruption simply disapear like the polution and the current economy?
But apart from this, don't you guys see the same problem over and over?
Isn't problem... us? Not U.S... I mean us, humans...
When will it be "THE" perfect system? Maybe if we could take the human factor out...
Humm... what would be like with no humans?
That happend to be how the current system works, atleast where I live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Netrogor
BUT YOU SAIZ THE CURRENT SYSTEMZ IS WRONGZ!!!!!!!!!111111111111111
I bet all of you based your idea of how the world works on the U.S.A. , which happend to be the most retarded place in the world, not to mention the place where least care about partisipating in the political system (what, 30-40% votes?, we got 80-90% in Europe, biatch), and doesn't have any proper form of "welfare care system".
humans infested the earth and now were destroying it, go us
actually when our leaders spend more on war than caring for our homeless it is not how our system works, pull your head out of your arse pleaseQuote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
Well guys, I'm new to the forum but i'm glad to hear of people actally trying to get the word out there... There is a group of only around 20-30 people down in yorkshire all watching and spreading the word on the project... It is small at the moment but there must be something that we can do isn't there?
I've been told its hopeless. And i understand the people's point of view how it is, i mean its hard to find a way out of the system and i would like to know your lot's views on how you think you may get out of it.
Please post back,
Wild. x
I have to say i've had a very basic quick read over the posts and i don't understand that some people could possibly be happy in what we are in at the moment. I agree for the fact that some people believe that humans are the problems to the world, But if it was not us it would be something else. The main problem i can see at the moment is also the money system and i don't see how people can sit back and be content with the crash's usally cause delibratly, The constant inflation of prices ripping the money from our pockets that we have to work so hard for very little.... I'm probally one of the youngest on here and i don't understand how people can be so god damn closed minded over what we are MADE [Not choosen] to do with our lives... Religion, money... There fake, if you believe in a god then thats your own personal view but there all created by someone bigger and better then you and you grow up having to just agree with the rules and ideals placed infront of you.... How could you live happy see'ing that? Are you that nieve?
Rediculous if you ask me...
Wild, x
Idealogical propaganda? Who the hell do you think you are? I mean get a frigging grip and stop being a self centre'd.... Well i can't say what i would like to say without it being inapropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
I hate people like you, Your better because it treats you better? You don't believe in ideals of this, but you laugh in the face of Jehova's Withness's... I remember people who were like you... Remember September 1939???... Just because people believe something doesn't mean there wrong. It is people like you who diminish people's views that cause the problem, and i find you almost disgusting thinking your BETTER then us because we want to actally do something about this... I hope to god that one day that system you seem to love so much bites you in the ass and opens your eyes. ''Poor scrubs will always cry <3'' ....
Get a grip mate.
Wild.
That might be how it is where you live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exclamatio
It's certainly not here. Our defense-department's budget is only 1.3% of the countrys BNP, compared to USA where it's around 4%.
Here's a few links for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_welfare_model
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark
You might live in a shit country, I don't. So why would I share opinions that only matters in your shit country.Quote:
Denmark, with a free market capitalist economy, and a large welfare state,[3] ranks according to one measure as having the world's highest level of income equality. From 2006 to 2008, surveys[4] ranked Denmark as "the happiest place in the world," based on standards of health, welfare, and education.
It's a question of blind belif. If you blindly belive anything you're god damn stupid, and I take my rights to tell you so.Quote:
Just because people believe something doesn't mean there wrong. It is people like you who diminish people's views that cause the problem, and i find you almost disgusting thinking your BETTER then us because we want to actally do something about this.
I couldn't care what you belive, but the video itself says to tell everybody that their belif in the current system is wrong. So if you spread the video, be sure to receive aggressive counter comments like this.
The more pissed you get about my comments the better. You may wake up some day.
And the system will only bite me in the arse if I break the law (laws are nessary). Sure paying 60% in tax may be "getting bitten", but I highly prefer the scandinavian welfare model over how the rest of the world works.
Interesting question and of course a trick one no one on here would in any true sence understand how to manage a goverment in and form of order (even a brand new one) its falls to me it seems to point out that as we are only individuals and there for alone we cant create this order the goverment has just to much power but if i could hyperfetically then firstly it would be to remove people like you from genrall population we could all do with a breath of fresh air unhinderd by people whos only joy is to trash others view beliefs and dreams then we could get on with sorting the important stuff out as for those who would dissagree its a new world order a benifit to all who would dissagree?? its a goal that cant be reached but in an ideal view no one would be unhappy but alass in the end it is but a dreamQuote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
Nightheart
I never said that i blindly believed anything, Nor that you piss me off. The money system is point blanantly in your face its hard to ignore... Thats my main point of this all that the money system is truely f**ked.
Also i cannot get my head around how you act, I have already woken up... I'm not saying the venus project will work... Because its very ''Out there''... Nor the fact of how the hell we can get out of the money loop because its pretty much close to impossible. All i am here for is to see people's views... Even yours. But you seem to be so far up your arse that you make me want to swat you down. To be honest i think its time you wake up and take a step back from your computer, and take a good look around you. Are you honestly telling me that everything in this world is right? Even part of it, or are you that closed off that you cannot or will not try to look for the answers of the Bigger picture...? You should just watch what you say in the future. Not all of us are bad off, we would just like it diffrent. We may not be able to do it... But its always worth the try...
Wild.
Hi again...
So... it seems that we can't ban mankind out of this place...
I vote to keep up the good work!
That way we will destroy ourselves!
But with humans out of the way, the earth will have alot of time to pick itself up!
GO HUMANS!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netrogor
Jesus. People with conflicting views are considered disabled or are removed from society?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightheart
And to think that it is us who are being called closed minded. ha.
The current system benefits me more than the suggested sytem.Quote:
then we could get on with sorting the important stuff out as for those who would dissagree its a new world order a benifit to all who would dissagree??
It occours to me that most of you fail to understand how in incredible retarded the majority of all people are. Just look at the different sub-forums on ragezone, and spot all the retarded questions.
I shall quote for you:
Wizards first rule: People are stupid.
No question is a stupid question in AMERICA.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
Maybe in Europe but that's you guys.
im tired of people saying america is stupid. your just as stupid as us, get over yourselves
Hey it's fine, there will always be different views on subjects. Everyone is different, and some can accept this video, or idea, or "movement" or whatever you want to call it, as a possible future for the human race, and others can deny it, because that's all it is at the moment, a possibility.
If I said that Earth would be destroyed in 2 months, some might believe it, others won't. Until people see evident signs of change with their own eyes, and when the event actually happens or doesn't... that's when their final opinions will be set whether or not to believe it.
Just consider the possibility, because everything is possible, it might not be probable, but everything IS possible. That's all you need to do.
someone can give me another link? maybe like in youtube link cause i cant load it..it doesnt play..
Hmm I've been looking for an angle to pursue my writing so I think I may have found it now =D
I love the goals of The Venus Project. I've always thought I was just slightly insane for the way I looked at the world since it made no sense to anyone else it seemed, but after watching the video I happy to know someone feels exactly the same as I do ^_^ Society's values inhibit progress and besides procreation we're not here for anything else but to benefit the next generation, meaning more progress is good lol
YAY!
And you derive that logic from a book about magic wizards? (I believe that's Harry Potter)Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
You're no smarter than the all the people you look down on for not at least attempting to solve the problem and just accepting what is essentially defeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vannaroth
vannaroth, I want to take this moment to point out just how incredibly stupid you are for trying to put that twist on my words, while at the same time further explaining my comment concerning DeathArt.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
By stating that I was okay with how things already work, with disability insurance coming out of my pocket, termed 'taxes', I was making it clear that I actually support the current monetary system... at least, to a degree.
By saying that I was okay with working a few extra hours to care for the mentally disabled, I made it clear that I was not attempting to remove DeathArt from society, but to take care of him, as he is not competent enough to care for himself.
DeathArt reinforced that by agreeing with me, saying the current system benefits him - because it does... people like me work hard to make sure DeathArt can still live a comfortable life, despite his handicap.
Your ignorance regarding common literature is amazing.Quote:
And you derive that logic from a book about magic wizards? (I believe that's Harry Potter)
No, it's not from Harry fucking Potter. How about you spend some more time reading, than posting on the internet.
Typical modern kid thing, thinking anything related to magic is related to Harry Potter *sigh*
Also, I still don't see the answer on how this new World Order would handle people not accepting it.
I guess none of you ever thought that far, but only look at the "ZOMG ROBOTS CAN DO OUR WORK, HURRAY NO WORK!" part of it.
Hmm, the idea of robots doing all our work is a compleatly rediculous idea, Freeing us from everything?
And when the robots break... Who fixes them? Other robots...? And when they break... Human will have to do it... Also make the robots in the first place, You telling me everyone will just agree to do that for free? Kinda need to open your eyes to that, I actally agree crystal clean on death's last comment. As i said the only reason i am here is to see the views on the moneytary system because unforortionalty for me it don't not support me in the way of some... And to the people who have it well, I say well done and i hope you all keep up with it.
If we have to live in the system, we should make the best of it huh?
Wild.
[As for the kid wanting the movie, http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ ]
lol, well excuse me then. Regardless your knowledge is still derived from a fiction fantasy book, the point remains... Try a piece of relevant literature to quote before you lecture me on my literacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
All one needs to do is sway the mind(s) of those in power or those of the majority. The plan isn't perfect. Not everyone will accept the social change. One would assume that corporations that already benefit from the system greatly would rather maintain the current system because it benefits them. Essentially the only thing inhibiting the progression of this idea is greed and selfishness.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
1. We don't have to live in the systemQuote:
Originally Posted by wildwulfhowl
2. The basis of the idea is that if such an instance occurs and a machine needs repair a skilled operator would do so under the impression that if he does not fix the machine he in-turn suffers from it as well.
I will submit that it is a hard thing it is fathom someone ready to work for what is apparently nothing. Since we're so in tune to a capitalist and materialistic reward system you're taught to believe that for each job there is a direct reward. However, if this new society were to work the operator need only realize he benefits from the repair of the machine. Someone benefits from the production of the machine or the machine would have no purpose to even be built initially.
I knew some of the things in this video before I even watched it and it still cut me deep. Even though the ideas for a free society are good ones it will never happen or it will take a very long time. Because people are confined to a pre-standarized way of living they won't get out of their safety shelter and see the true state of the world because of fear and propaganda that decides how we should live. This video is true in every sense just the solutions not very good ones. With that and the internet thing going on we have more than one thing to combat. Unless over 80% of humans beings are suddenly opened up to the true state of reality I'm afraid that our utopia that we have waited for will never happen at least in our lifetime. We outnumber the politicans and leaders of the world but we live in fear of breaking laws thus killing off new advances in technology thus killing off a piece that is needed to live a way of life. It was a fine video to watch and at least gave me hope that someday our world can be like that but for now I know that it wont happen for a while because more believe what is in front of them rather than what is around them.
sorry, I didn't realise that DeathArt actually called himself a retard in jest and that your post was made in that context. I thought you were implying he was mentally disabled on the basis that you disagree with him on some level. The 'removed from society' part was entirely in response to Nightheart's post though which to be fair I did also quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Netrogor
Which happends to be the excact two things that define Homo sapiens.Quote:
Essentially the only thing inhibiting the progression of this idea is greed and selfishness.
You realise, some of us enjoy our jobs? You might have a shit job , but I enjoy developing advanced IT systems. The reward of the job for many is not the payment, but the job itself, the occuptation that otherwise wouldn't have existed, or the communication with the colleges you otherwise wouldn't have meet.Quote:
Since we're so in tune to a capitalist and materialistic reward system you're taught to believe that for each job there is a direct reward.
But ofcource you take stand with those creating the video, who try and convince you that WORK IS BAD, YOU WERE TAUGHT IT WAS GOOD; BUT THAT WAS A LIE.
You talk like nobody can think free if they are educated. So basicly you must be a retard at the bottom of socity to belive the video, or else it denies the point of well educated people who belive in the system, can also think free?
Not retard, I was talking about not accepting the systems political rules.Quote:
sorry, I didn't realise that DeathArt actually called himself a retard in jest and that your post was made in that context.
I'm autist btw. so I get extra benefits from the current system due to that \o/
hmm, a free world order. a free world order wil only happen if all humans are of the same mindset. and to make all humans have the same mindset, many others with not of the same train of thought will have to die. if they do not die, they will form another group of people who will clash with our new world order, and with 2 groups of people with differing views, that will mean war.
the message in the videos are a peaceful approach to making the free world order. but we are humans, there will never be a same train of thought ever happening worldwide, encompassing every human in the world. so what do we do with the people with differing thoughts ? try to understand them and the action behind their motives ? their motives is that they do not agree with the idea of a free world order. and what they want is the exact same as what we want. they want the free world idea to be shredded, and we want their anti-free world idea to be shredded.
now as sun tsu says, if u can't defeat them, join them. so we've physically caught them, but we just cannot defeat their mental state and ideals. as a free world order, we should not forcefully implement our ideals on them. so, should we join them in their ideals, set them free, and try to change them gradually in the near future ?
oh my, i should go discuss on the official website instead -_-
regards
I saw Zeitgeist the movie-remastered version on googlevideo over a year ago, never managed to share it much tough.
It is very detailed and proves very well that our lives are being controlled and it will only get worse.
I watched this video too and the point was about the same...
[I did not proof-read this, there may be a few grammar mistakes]
People are spreading around this movie and believing everything that is being said in it. Throughout the 19 minutes of watching this movie, I have come across many fallacies (information used by an author that is assumed to be true). The creator/producer of this movie is NOT a credible source. In order to prove information, you must prove it. Yes Peter Joseph did, but he provided information that isn't credible. He gave many quotes and did not provide information on where he obtained the information (sources). IF he did research this, than he has put false and biased (not telling the whole truth) information into this movie. The quotes he has put into the movie ACTS as valid information when in fact, these cannot be considered valid or correct. I can provide information critiquing this information, showing counter-research from valid and credible sources, to show how much of this movie is either biased or false. (I have access to thousands of credible databases (google is not credible) due to being a college student.) I am not posting this to prove anything, but am just getting a point across which is; the majority of this movie (from what I saw and can predict) is not valid. The movie expresses the authors opinion even though they showed information, it is assumed to be true (fallacy).
----------------------
I read a few posts in this thread, and many people are arguing with DeathArt. My question to you (the people arguing with him) is why would you argue with someone, say he doe's not know what he is talking about. While you clearly don't know what you are talking about. You did not research anything about this topic, and have gotten all your information from one source (this movie). You should not talk unless you can prove what you are talking about (with valid research (not google or another search engine)).
A great place to find information to either prove this movie is correct or wrong, would be a Time Magazine database (which dates back to 1953 (I may be wrong on that date)) or an economic database which searches from other databases as well. The majority of you will not be able to access a top-of-the-line database because 1) you will not pay for it or 2) you are not attending a university or college. A good high school database is Galegroup, but you will need to obtain a password from your high school in order to access it.
I am predicting that people may flame and/or attempt to argue with me; I will not argue with you. Please, if you do flame/argue, show your sources where you got your information from and don't use things you heard from this movie. Otherwise, you will be wasting your time.
-Joshua
1) IP check, please?Quote:
Originally Posted by standup1016
2) You are a hypocrite of the highest order.
3) What exactly was false in the zeitgeist movie? I would like to know what you feel was false; I already have a pretty good idea on that, but hearing you say "what's what," will allow me to figure out if you even watched it.
4) Where are your sources, or was that your +1 for joining the forums (btw, welcome to RZ)?
5) The movie is two hours long. Excuse my French, but acting like you saw all that it had to offer in nineteen minutes is bullshit. ^^
Ive been researching for a couple of years now on the subjects detailed in both zeitgeist movies and although they do offer a very close representation of whats goin on it makes alot of attacks on religion (im an atheiest myself) and suggests we let technology free us from work, all sounds good and all but its competition that drives us humans and without that advancements would be slower. I know many of you are gonna say thats not true but ignoring that.... the most important thing to take away from these movies and many like it is this, we are at a pivitol moment in time that technology is either going to free us or enslave us and goverments of the world are attempting the latter. On this I think we can all agree that if we dont stand up for our rights now we and our children may never get the chance again. We really need to do something about this.
You might say "but im just one person" This simply isnt true you are one in a huge percentage of people that share the same veiws and you must do somthing be it signing petetions or visiting your local councils demanding answers.
The biggest un-reported fact that they are pushing right now is the whole reason why we arnt enslaved already and thats the internets neutrality. By this I mean the unrestricted net as we know it. Imagine losing the ability to host your own sites and views, sites like this and much of the internet would be gone and they plan to charge you for and limit you too for simple things like sending email. Democracy (like it exists anyway) would be takin of the table completely because if a few companies are givin control of the internet they would be able to stop the alternete veiws of sensitive subjects eg 9/11. How could (in their veiw)undesirable politicians get their message out, they simply couldnt and either could we.
Feel free to disagree as its your right too (for now) but to the people that dont if you havnt already please take the time to watch these movies and go listen to what alex jones has to say. Dont beleve everything in zeitgeist as alot of it is pure bunk, the money system can work problem is its engineered not to as I and many of you have seen the documents to prove.
Just do your own investagation and dont just beleve one persons view including mine.
Watch these films/documenteries.. Terror Storm Final Cut, Loose Change 2nd Edition, 9/11 Road To Tyrrany and End Game there are loads more though these are the only films that offer evidence in place of the in most cases silly untested theories in the zeitgeist film particulary the new one except for the parts about ecomomy and the need to abolish dependency of fossil fuels and use of available renewable energy. Ive known all this for a long time and is common sense if you would of gave it an hours thought without watching this film also dont forget hitler bribed the people with a so called eutopia world too and we all know how that worked out and besides theres more real threats to take care of before we could ever see the suggestions made in this video realised, like patents for all these technologies held by the electric and gas companys never mind the mental people running the world planning to wipe 80% of us out using virus's if we did rise up aginst them (dont beleve me do the research yourself).
The Zeitgeist films has raised our numbers and awakened more people to the truth and I thank Peter Joseph for that.
Now feel free to attack me personaly lol joke, Im real happy to see this thread in here just shows thats this things bust wide open now. I didnt bother to read the preceding posts as I know from experience its likly full of full blown arguments defending zeitgeist as preists do their bible. Be nice and voice your opinions as I have. If you are on the same page as me send me a pm, I do like speaking with well informed people.
that video might be true (or some of it) might be not, but i think that we do agree that something is wrong here, and that at least something must be done.
(BTW: this is my 1500th post! thought i should do it in an important place.)
I do not agree with the zeitgeist world if there was a new world order just a couple of years later there would be madness to get power
and then there will be war and everyone will hate everyone
Everything but the history lesson in the start.Quote:
3) What exactly was false in the zeitgeist movie? I would like to know what you feel was false; I already have a pretty good idea on that, but hearing you say "what's what," will allow me to figure out if you even watched it.
And it's not us having to show proof of it's false, it's you having to show proof of it's true.
I think you'll have a hard time proving anything related to the CIA or 9/11th terrorist attack (I go with the common version of it, not the paranoia version like you).
So I dare you, proof. Scientific proof, not random video's and photoshopped images from the internet.
The fact is, you can't show this. If you could, you had allready, and everybody would been convinced from the start.
So basicly, you lost. Now go live like a paranoia retard off the grid, nobody care. When you die at home before you thought medicine was dangerous, and nobody was around to help you because you dispised socity as it works today, nobody will care about your death.
Because nobody knew you ever existed. Except the people on the internet. And they wouldn't care more than 4chan does when moot dies to get more funding.
In short: shut the fuck up and disappear so nobody know you're there. Then you're happy, and we're happy. Perfect world for you and me.
whats fed?
Wow; you're raging like a spoiled little girl not getting the Ferrari cake she wanted on her sweet sixteen.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
I now want you to quote me - quote the words that supposedly stated I bought into everything the Zeitgeist movie displayed. I know you can't, because:
A) I directly said there were things in it that I knew to be false
B) You are immature
C) It is beyond your mental capacity as a human being
And that about sums it up.
Really - I can't stop laughing (it helps that I am high) at your raging so much over so little. :lol:
Just a note for all you dumass saying its fake blablabla, you gotta get your facts right,
just because you sit 24/7 behind the PC and never see daylight doesnt mean its fake,
do your research - get your homework done, you'll find out that everything said in this video
is REAL.
So please, stop talking trash and go to your research.
-
Banks are getting bankrobbed all over the world now, money is being lost everywhere, that means
something aswell doesnt it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponyx
Listen chicka, saying that everything in that movie is real is like saying that if anyone on a screen told you anything then you would practically agree. Not everything in the video is real and to think so is very nieve.
Give me evidential proof of the eco hitmen, other then the zeitgeist movie. Also, saying that death has been behind his computer 24/7 where does that come from? Him being on this forum? Because i could say the same for you... There has not been one bank in england that has been robbed. And please change your avatar... Because i cannot take you seriously with the legally blond chick as your picture.
Wild.
oh well damn there goes my argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponyx
i was afraid of getting rick rolled!
wouldnt have suprised me after that april fools day joke lol
also on the subject if it was that easy why is the government in subject having trouble with the Economy right now?
another weird thing is an american guy told me 5 years ago that the world economy would be in tatters in 10 years
The Fed is the Federal Reserve Bank, the 'Central Bank' in the United States.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake?
also, sorry if I'm late, but, has anyone else besides me seen BOTH the first and second movie?
I disagree with the Zeitgeist Movement.
Seeing you're still in High School, and american, I can't stop laughing at it's your country having problems :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Netrogor
i agree, but just cause your in high school does not mean you are stupid. im in high school, and i can think for myself unlike alot of people who arent in high school.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
yes, i have. i prefer the zeitgeist movie to zeitgeist: addendum, i highly reccomend both to anyone who hasnt watched them both, well worth 4hrs of your time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cask
remember how 5-10 years ago a few people were saying how economies are going to crash, and how there will be global warming and pollution problems if we keep going the way we are?Quote:
Originally Posted by mossip
those people were branded as loonies and hippie freaks at the time, but they were right werent they?says something about the way our society refuses to believe anything that might challenge our lifestyles, even if its a little thing.
i agree about the fact that there is no such thing as a human who isint greedy and currupted, its the way we work, its been proven over and over that humans cannot all be on one level, there has to be upper class, middle, and lower class, otherwise eventually one person breaks the ranks and thinks they are above everyone else and anarchy breaks out.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
the video never said that you shouldnt work, just not to work in currupt organisations like major banks and governments.
i am 100% for the zeitgeist movement.
Zen.
Agreed, the first is a lot better than the second, Addendum. I even got my teacher to watch the first one over the second one.Quote:
Originally Posted by tedelex06
i liked the 1st one more because it talked about things i could understand. i have a friend which is an archaeologist and i had him do a little research on what Zeitgeist says about religion. Well it is true. Horus's story did existed long before Jesus and it's quite amazing how similar they both are!
I'm an atheist but i was in a catholic school being trained and most of these i did know. What they told us there was not to believe what the devil has been placing among historical facts!
For those who haven't seen any of these films, i strongly recommend to do so.
I can't believe a person like Mental can be so naive.
http://www.conspiracyscience.com/art...eist-addendum/
Assume everything you read and see on the internet is a lie. Check the sources of what you read. I'd rather base an article on encyclopediadramatica than Zeitgeist.
you have to understand that the people behind Zeitgeist are some of the most intellectually dishonest individuals you will ever encounter. They don't care about other viewpoints. The whole movement resembles a faith more than anything else.
Read some of your own posts. You are an incredibly intolerant person, with, as you have shown thus far, no respect of any kind for the opinions and views of others. The post I quoted is included in those you should read over and pretend somebody else wrote - if you aren't on something, you'll realize they quash out and refuse to factor in opposing beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by vannaroth
actually all I've done so far is point out that this movement is an ideological matter so nobody is right or wrong here really. What I did do is point out some of the issues I have with the idea, for example the fact that it appears to be largely based on assumptions such as that all human beings will reach some purely theoretical 'higher' level of thought and consensually resolve all issues henceforth. it is for that reason that I compare it to a faith. At least one zeitgeist supporter in this thread alone has even advocated the 'removal' of those who do not share the belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by Netrogor
The part about the people behind the zeitgeist films being intellectually dishonest is in my opinion entirely correct, and nothing to do with respect for beliefs. One look at the source lists for both films would confirm that. But I think you'll find i have been entirely respectful of peoples' right to follow their ideas or not - however that doesn't stop me from having issues with the ideas themselves. So far I haven't called anyone 'ignorant', 'elitist', 'stupid' or similar based on their opinions of this movement, which is more than some others in this thread can say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vannaroth
'Nuff said. You are full of shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by vannaroth
Next please? Hopefully somebody who'll present an opposing view and support it, rather than attack others.
what you quoted doesnt in any way refer to people's opinions of the movement but rather to the attitude that one can be 'incorrect' in opposing it. as i said, people can subscribe to zeitgeist if they want but berrating others for not following it is entirely foolish given its ideological rather than factual nature. that is what that post meant. sorry you misunderstood it but in future try not to misrepresent my views to support your own or at least don't insult me while doing so thanks.
Your saying everyone that buys into it, period, is a moron, isn't misrepresenting you when I make fun of how full of shit you are when you claim you haven't attacked anybody in this thread.
All you have been doing is flaming, flame-baiting, and quashing opposing views, as some sort of side-kick to DeathArt, relying on him to be the main force (and now that he isn't posting here, you are being rather easily called out for it - since attention to poor attitudes and flaming/flame-baiting isn't centered on him anymore).
Now seriously - where are the people with opposing views... who'll actually voice them? I'm not talking about vannaroth's, "Everyone who buys into this is a moron," crap... I'm talking about a respectable opposing view that doesn't attack people.
I didn't even read past this part of your post as you obviously didn't read mine. This is simply not what I said at all and I will not suffer arguments based entirely on misinterpretations of my posts. Read my last post, in it I gave a very clear explanation of what I meant, and it is nothing like what you have suggested. So far almost everyone in this thread has been acting maturely however you are disrupting things with name calling and extreme misrepresentation. In fact so far in this thread you have not made a single post that hasn't contained some degree of insult, and this entire dialogue between you and me has been the result of you a) misunderstanding one of my posts, and/or b) you refusing to accept or acknowledge the correct meaning of that post following my explanation of it. it is irksome indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Netrogor
Here are your exact words from an earlier post ->
Yea... you sure are mature, vannaroth.Quote:
Originally Posted by vannaroth
this whole silly argument has been spawned from your refusal to understand one of my posts and now you are attempting to turn it into a personal battle. if the best you can do is call me out over one post that you didn't even understand correctly then seriously, don't bother because I'm not going to humour you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Netrogor
---
now if anybody would care to participate in actual debate then I will re-iterate some of the issues I have with zeitgeist:
-the intellectual dishonesty of the filmmaker as shown by his source lists for both films (I can elaborate if required)
-the faith-like aspects of the movement: nobody knows for sure what will happen when the 'transition' is achieved or even if it can happen
-the supposed end result or even the means to achieve it are not necessarily desirable by everyone anyway, it's a matter of personal beliefs.
-the idea that profit is inherently evil and that technology and technology alone is what helps us. to me it seems that a system where supply exceeds demand and everything is done by technology and machines would be a breeding ground for idleness and ignorance.
Debate...
Something tells me vannaroth is lost. This thread isn't in the debate section - while debates may take place, that is not its only purpose.
And THANK YOU! If you actually read my posts, you'd see I was nagging at you to return to the thread and offer something, rather than attack people like you were doing. Now that you are doing that, all is good.
Actually if you read back through my posts you will find that the only insult I have used was in that relatively old post that you misunderstood, and even that was directed at non-specific individuals so can't be really classed as an attack on anyone. Now read back through yours, if you will. Almost all have contained direct insults. I also see you just couldn't resist taking a jab at me with that little 'debate' comment there. totally unnecessary and completely pointless, given that the nature of this thread so far has been geared toward debate.
if you really feel the need to post in this thread again then please, stop making it personal and stay on topic. i suggest that once you have read this post you delete your one above and i'll do the same with this one, as opposed to continuing some ridiculous quarrel that seems to have stemmed from some personal problem you have with me. if you choose the latter i will delete this post anyway and wont respond to yours.
activism, i dont like.
Slaveism you do like? ;P
the zeitgeist movement and idea is all about unity and to respond to our true spiritual nature, anyone who has read philosophy in a conscious way has a sense of our spiritual nature and our natural search for the truth. the zeitgeist movement encourages us to that search for truth. anyone who understands the actual state of the world knows there's something very very wrong about money, poverty and how goods are distributed, the zeitgeist movement doesn't claim to be the perfect solution but a step towards human development and a more equal society at least. with that said I support the zeitgeist movement and encourage everyone to watch both movies and come up with your own conclusions. Watch the movies!
(Sorry, I'm not quite good in speaking english. These are only my thoughts, they might not be accurate.)
I agree with the Zeigeist Movement, but only for certain extends. I'm not trying to say Zeigeist Movement isn't correct, but from what I see, Zeigeist Movement is a future revolution if the movement is known to everyone. I'll try to explain it in detail.
1. How does the Zeitgeist Movement become Revolutionary?
This can only happen when POOR is more than RICH. When poor are more than rich, they overthrow the government, just like any other historical cases of communism. Then how does poor gets more than rich? This is due to several occurance.
1st Occurence :
As stated by the video, the longer the greed(Money) last, more people would suffer from bankruptcy. When more suffers from bankruptcy, more gets poor. This cause the revolution to happen.
2nd Occurance :
When American's World Trade Center lies dead flat. When the World Trade Center closes down, all government would gather all their money from all banks and then all banks including World's Bank would claim back all assets being loan out. All premises would be claimed back and all companies and factories would suffer bankruptcy. When comapnies and factories closes down, many would be unemployed. When unemployed, people would not go to small outlets to shop and therefore, small outlets would close down. This is CHAOS. This massive unemployment would cause more people to get poor. Therefore, causes the revoluton to happen.
There are more occurence for the would to make Zeitgeist Movement to become revotionary, but they are not sensible. For example, "The government of all countries is going destroy all money in their states to enhance the Zeitgeis Movement." This is impossible.
2. Then how the Revolution goes?
1st -
When poor are more than rich, poor tends to overthrow the government, like when had happened during the monarchy empire. Example : Riots, terrorism, creation of new leadership, etc.
2nd-
New groups or parties would be form to make this movement revolutionary. These groups would be the leading groups that pushes down the politic system.
3rd-
After overtaking the government, new policy would be given to improve lives of people.
Example : Moneytary of all expenses would become 0. All debts would be cut off.
4th-
Governments and politics jobs do not have vaulation, they work for nothing. In another word, they only do voluntary work. (Political jobs are civl services like police that governs the country.)
5th-
People do not do work. Technology of agriculture feeds them. Where farms are govern by te government.
This sounds like a communist state. In factual, it is. As stated in the video, there'll be no government, I personally thinks that a state without having a government is impossible. Groups of people without leaders wouldn't survive. Government leads people on their behaviour and leadership is the key of the revolution. One wouldn't want chaos to happen, right? So, government is required.
The Zeigeist Movement is only made temporary. Why?
Answer : Greed.
Even if it's in the commnuist state, there would be jelousy, and jealousy leads to greed.
When greeds come in, people would want the history of 'money' to occur again, but in another form. This would cause another revolution. These 'money' in the new revolution is less harmful than the money being used in the modern world. This is due to the economic reset.
The disadvantages of the Zeitgeist Movement
When the revolution occurs-
-People do not require to work, therefore, like a communist state, they are not commited to work as food comes in for free.
-There'll be no competition within people, and therefore, they slack all day long.
-From this point, the rich would get unhappy as they see that their efforts were being put into waste.
-Techonology do not improve.
-Education would be badly affected.
In conclusion, The Zeitgeist Movement, is a revolution that is something that have to be made, which resets the economic structure. The Zeigeist Movement is importation for us and to keep the poor survive.
Wish you guys understand what I'm trying to express. Thanks for reading. :/:
For someone who's "not quite good at English," you've just made the most sense I've seen in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Endothermic
The Zeitgeist Movement, in my opinion, is a pipe-dream of a perfect world.
We will never have such a world due to the competitive behaviour of humans (which is instilled in us through nature/natural selection/evolution and not because of the monetary system as the movie has us believe - read Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene which explains in-part what I'm trying to say).
The notion that a select few "engineers/technicians/scientists" would work for humanity out of complete selflessness is again, a pipe dream. Yes, I'm sure they would reason that by 'fixing the machine' they will be in-turn benefiting themselves as well as the rest of society, but they will soon come to question ''why should we do all the work for the rest of this idle society?'.
Ever been pissed off that your hard earned money gets taken off you via tax and soaked up by those lazy people claiming benefits off of the government for refusing to work (jobseekers allowance)? Same thing.
Also, with this kind of society - laying back and allowing 'technology' to solve all of our problems - aside from being impossible, would cause the world to fall into idleness and ignorance (vannaroth gets credit for pointing this out).
Why is it impossible you ask?
For example, thousands of people would be required to 'work' (full-time in many roles) in order for these technologies to be operational. Pilots, conductors, engineers, maintenance/repair guys, scientists, teachers etc... would be needed to operate/repair this technology and teach others to do the same. And everyone involved in this would have to do it all for "the good of society as a whole". So these people get to 'waste' their lives just so the majority of the population can sit in their mansions and soak up everything for free? Isn't this exactly what the Zeitgeist movement is trying to prevent? Apart from the majority/minority is switched in today's world (many people work and a few get to reap the rewards), though at least with the current system the worker gets something to show for his/her efforts (i.e. money to spend on themselves).
There has ALWAYS been some sort of trading system in human society. Whether it was gold, land, food, slaves or indeed money, it has always been there. Why? Because we need it in order to form a structured society and we need it for motivation. A lot of people are motivated by the prospect of more money (or more of the things money buys) and without that motivation, society would not progress as quickly as it does, if at all. Society also needs leadership, and without it, chaos would ensue.
Yes, there are many holes and problems with the current system, and it should be changed, but I think this way is not the answer. Human (and any other animal) society has always been about survival of the fittest, and most people will exploit any system if they can, so there is no answer to the perfect world - it doesn't exist.
I personally don't have many problems with the current system, it rewards those who put in the effort and those who figured out how to manipulate it. The people at the top of society (rich business owners and politicians) would not agree with this and those that conjured the Zeitgeist Movement (and many who endorse it) would not agree if they were to make it to the top.
This seems to me as a solution for those who are not willing to work for a living, or those who have grown up dreaming of living in a mansion and driving a Ferrari but have only just come to see that it's never going to happen for them. I just don't think this so-called revolution has been thought out very much, it seems to me that it's idealistic and very ignorant of its repercussions.
I apologise for the sporadic nature of my response, I had to end it abruptly due to the fact that I'm off out now :P.
I'm posting this reply for :
1. People who thinks that the Zeitgeist Movement is TOTALLY wrong.
2. People who thinks that the Zeitgeist Movement is TOTALLY correct.
3. Blurs.
Dear readers,
The Zeitgeist Movement is not totally correct, nor wrong. It's not totally ideological either, because due to some extends, it would happen. Let me explain this further to prevent misunderstandings.
As I've said ealier in the first post, this Zeitgeist Movement would be a factual revolution in FUTURE, not in PRESENT, whereby the poor gets more than the rich. When the poor gets more than the rich, the poor would overthrow the government and this causes revolution to happen. (Read my previous post.) This could only happen when everyone knows about this Zeitgeist Movement or either someone, probably a leader of the people introduces it. This shows that Zeitgeist Movement has a possibility to become true, but it's only temporary.
There's also a possibility for make the Zeitgeist Movement become permanent.
How?
In many ways, depending of the Educational System and Religious. These are factors that changes the mind set of people and take them out of greed. This changes wouldn't happen within a day nor week, not even a year nor a dozen, it'll take a century or even a millenium. (Provided that they don't get intact with the term : Money)
Why?
People would want to have more power than others, therefore, greed is being revealed. These are common to almost every human. They tend to want more money so that they could gain power. To change their ideologcal thinking, it's possible, but it'll take a very long time for them the change.
In conclusion, it is almost impossible for the Zeitgeist Movement to become permanent. Because, due to our human nature, what we want is power(greed). Example : To win others, to win more support, to have more glory, to have better results. Tell me, would you give up on studies and let others have better results than you? Or would be rather become the first in your class? Logical?
But I personally thinks that this Zeitgeist Movement is positive as this movement would do an overall Economy Reset.
What is an Economical Reset?
It changes all monetary factor to ZERO for the period of time, then changes all assets back to their historical cost. Therefore making the assets of all people equal, This makes less of the population of the world to get poor. So, I agree the the Zeitgeist Movement.
As stated above, the Zeitgeist Movement is equally right is equally wrong. In fact, there's no right or wrong for this movement.
Anyway, it'll almost take us a century for the Zeitgeist Movement to become ture as we people do not have the power to overthrow the politics in present. People at present should see this as an educational programme of economic structure in the politics, instead of flaming or fighting among each other as both parties are not wrong.
Most importantly, I'll have to thanks the Adminstrator of RaGEZONE (MetaL) and the Sub-Adminstrator (Exclamatio) for sharing this video of The Zeitgeist Movement. It really opened my eyes about the economical factors and facts of the politics. Thanks alot.
Peace,
Endothermic
When Zeigeist Movement is made permanent, it'll be the Evolution of a new human with new human nature.
Known as the Evolution of New-Human.
...this is just a load of crap, the fact that evryone forgot the golden rule. you do not spend money you dont have!!!!, and is no-ones fault, no scam, no "enslaveing".
Is it just me or is the idea of the Zeitgeist Movement coming off as a simply reiteration of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto. The poor people "enslaved" by the impoverishing monetary instution will cause them to rise up and defeat the rich. They will then go about restarting the entire global money system so everyone is equal.Or at least that is the gist I get from watching part of the movie and read the comments.
We know, as history shows, Karl Marx was wrong, while his idea of equality may not be so bad, it is an unachievable goal. The first main reason people are not willing to give up National Identity, Religion, Language, and money for the sake of Equality and Unity. Those that think it is possible to do this need to get a serious smack of reality in them. Secondly, these "proletarians" that are enslaved by the monetary system are far better off then they were when Karl Marx wrote his famous book.
Lastly, It is IMPOSSIBLE for true equality to every exist. If, as EndoThermic says, we have a Economic and Political Reset...
Who will lead?
Who decides what is right and what is wrong for society?
Does not that person that decides what is right or wrong have more power than the person that has to follow the rules?
These questions can go on forever...
P.S. This movie was done by a guy that thinks 9/11 is an inside job, so the validity of what he says is an automatic zero in my book.
While Communism would actually be an ideal form of Government, as a True Communism would mean equality and the likes, that will never happen. First and foremost, human beings are evil. Your natural instinct when you see an apple is to eat it for yourself. It takes an act of will to share it, or give it to another human being, even if they may be starving and you are not. That is why Russia was corrupted with dictators such as Joseph Stalin, and China by Chairman Mao.
That's good to know; that you aren't open to discussion on this, that is. You shall be ignored, as is your wish, from here on out (concerning this specific discussion). I would appreciate it if no +1 posting took place from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loregoreth
Communism, corrupt or not, is not the way to go. Equality can NEVER be achieved, simply because we are NOT equal. Some people are more intelligent, stronger, faster etc.. than others and that is the way of the world, it is our inequalities and our differences that make the world an interesting place. These characteristics of human beings has given rise to competition between each other and a striving for success which has lead to progression as a species (take the Space Race and World Wars as examples; the amount of technology born from those periods was enormous).
If we were all the same, the world would be a stale and boring place with next to no progression at all.
And I don't think human beings are evil by nature. Evil is a subjective term anyway, so it cannot be used in absolute to describe an entire species. Yes, people are selfish by nature, but that is not the same as being evil. By being selfish, we survive, we look out for ourselves, our friends and our family (especially our children because the needs of the next generation surpasses that of our own); it's an evolutionary imperative.
Communism's great on paper, terrible in practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra
best post in the whole threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Hydra
this is so true i already understood most of it but alot of this is new information and i'm definitly gonna tell my friends about this
may be beacuse the ones that have lead the biggest comunist gov where idiots xDQuote:
Originally Posted by KyleEnos
But u cant say 100% that capitalism is perfect
Zeitgeist basicly say everything big is corrupt, without proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by tedelex06
I hereby claim the Zeitgeist is corrupt and the founders are corrupt and wish to be dictators of the world.
You will now belive me, since you belive everything on the internet is true.
If you want me to prove it, I ask you to prove why banks and governments are corrupt. Neither of us can prove it, thus returning to square one, where common sense applies.
Common sense says Major banks and governments are NOT corrupt, since it's not common sense to wear a tinfoil hat and be super paranoid as Mental/Excladimo is.
Well said. And while we're at it, that's very common for people who craft propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by vannaroth
I still think alot of the High School kids in this thread totally missed out on what propaganda means.
Go read a book, on paper, in the living room, without a computer. You might learn something.
QFTQuote:
I personally don't have many problems with the current system, it rewards those who put in the effort and those who figured out how to manipulate it. The people at the top of society (rich business owners and politicians) would not agree with this and those that conjured the Zeitgeist Movement (and many who endorse it) would not agree if they were to make it to the top.
This seems to me as a solution for those who are not willing to work for a living, or those who have grown up dreaming of living in a mansion and driving a Ferrari but have only just come to see that it's never going to happen for them. I just don't think this so-called revolution has been thought out very much, it seems to me that it's idealistic and very ignorant of its repercussions.
im sorry mods for not participating to the team becosa im very busy ryt now
To those, who think equality can't be achieved and people aren't equal:
That's right. With these conditions that build up our life, we will never be equal. But people are equal, if threated equally.
One might have born somewhere in Africa and another in New York. Does it give them different rights? I don't think that's right.
To those, who think "human nature" won't allow to achieve this:
There's no such thing as "human nature"... it's only human behaviour, the way we've grown up. Watch the movie a couple of times. It's been said there that in the Roman culture, families with children would watch Christians being eaten by lions, and that would be their entertainment. Human behaviour, not human nature - the way their surrounding world (either in small scale, a community, or a large, the whole world) makes us behave.
With that said, greed and evilness is the human behaviour, that one adopts from their surrounding society. With a new society, it's possible to minimize greed and evilness, as there would be no money, and everyone would get what they want.
Of course, all of that wouldn't happen all out of sudden, it would take time, but it's possible.
Why would people want to work?
What do you do when you have nothing to do? Ok, many of you play computer games etc. - but not all the time, right?
People get ideas, ideas they want to realize. Other people might appreciate new ideas and help to realize them. Self-employement in the highest degree, I'd say.
I don't expect people to understand the motivation to work, but with a new school system, it would be possible. A new school system where people would be taught that work is just as creative as arts, which it is, if there's no reward for it. Make something and share it with the rest. Why not? Pleasure of giving something to others - ever felt that? I have, and I like it :)
Government?
Not in the way we have it now. People would decide over themselves, probably in smaller communities, like cities... it would be shaped by the people themselves, as they decide.
There are many questions, and many possible answers. Here's the FAQ page of the Zeitgeist Movement: http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/faq-home.htm
Remember, if you read or write something, it's an opinion. There are no facts about the future, because it doesn't exist... yet...
Got bored after 5 minutes. Stopped watching, no idea what it's supposed to be about. Seems like a load of bollocks.
The Movie Really Touched Me
Watched it before though...
@Vans,it's all about how the government uses you,the ones that's behind everything,behind politics or anything you could imagine.People that haven't at least watched such documentaries,has no point in takin' human rights seriously.
This movie is very very true, its useful for those bomb happy and narrow minded ppl to watch....
I truely doubt this/these problems would be cured until thousands or even million years later.
That's why action is needed. Without acting, the problems won't get solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by -=DooMeR=-
Don't know about you guys but I'm not just sitting around. I aim to have fun and help others.
what makes you believe there is no such thing as human nature? You seem to have ripped that directly from the film, and the film seems to have plucked it out of nowhere. It is ridiculous to assume that a human being is merely a blank slate. If behaviour is the result of localised environment, then why are certain traits consistent throughout all cultures, and in some cases indeed species? Among those included is greed. it's a logical trait, an extension of the natural will to survive - when 'need' inevitably turns into 'want'. You can call it human behaviour, and indeed it is strictly speaking, but if it is invariant throughout all cultures in all of history - then what meaningful distinction is there?Quote:
To those, who think "human nature" won't allow to achieve this:
There's no such thing as "human nature"... it's only human behaviour, the way we've grown up. Watch the movie a couple of times. It's been said there that in the Roman culture, families with children would watch Christians being eaten by lions, and that would be their entertainment. Human behaviour, not human nature - the way their surrounding world (either in small scale, a community, or a large, the whole world) makes us behave.
With that said, greed and evilness is the human behaviour, that one adopts from their surrounding society. With a new society, it's possible to minimize greed and evilness, as there would be no money, and everyone would get what they want.
Of course, all of that wouldn't happen all out of sudden, it would take time, but it's possible.
Creative works sucks if you happend to be a mathematician. But again, no mathematician would belive in the Zeitgeist movement.Quote:
I don't expect people to understand the motivation to work, but with a new school system, it would be possible. A new school system where people would be taught that work is just as creative as arts, which it is, if there's no reward for it.
I hate creative work, I hate having to have a imagination, and I hate stupid people.
Science is build on math, math is build on logic, logic is the cornerstone of the universe.
Some human brains can simply not manage math, but they might manage art. Creative unlogical work.
Thus humans are never equal, as some humans are to stupid to understand the logic of the universe, so all they do is create "art" , a form of anarchistic thinking which eventually leads to things as the Zeitgiest movement when they realise the clever people gets more benefit from the other clever people.
Ingratitude is the way of the worldQuote:
Make something and share it with the rest. Why not? Pleasure of giving something to others - ever felt that? I have, and I like it :)
I stopped liking it a long time ago. I only share with people who prove themself to be on a equal intellectual level. Oh, if you belive in the Zeitgeist movement, you're not. You're at the bottom of the food chain , and I'll let you rot there untill your mind start to understand the logic of the universe.
Actually you got a point there with the survival instinct. But you forgot one thing - if there's enough to survive and even more, what then? Would there be greed?Quote:
Originally Posted by vannaroth
As for the human nature - it also depends on what you understand with that. You might be born with instincts, but they build the basic behaviour, which can be changed later.
Isn't freedom a part of 'human nature'? Is it really freedom we have now? If yes, can you live without working for the society, without earning money?
There are many resources in the world, most of them are natural, except for one - money. As long as money is controlled by specific institutions (people), and is a part of our lives, there is no freedom.
If you're a mathematician and don't trust other people, that doesn't mean other mathematicians do the same. I'm capable of mathematics and programming more than my classmates (not because I was born smart, but I was eager to learn much, which the education system should actually support, not give too much work so that one would have too little free time for oneself), and I'm creative too. Music, for example, can be a mix of logic and creativity, especially the classical music - the tempo and tones that fit together - it's more logical than creative. Nowadays music can be made by persons who aren't that good at logics.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
I'd say you are trusting the now-existing economics too much. Haven't you looked around? There's an (almost) world-wide inflation, affecting many people's lives! If that's the world you want to live in, then please - remain into your own world, but let the others do what we please. The Venus Project is capable of what its all about even if not in a world-wide scale, and besides, it's not a must to everyone.
I know one of the major profs at Michigan State University, in the Engineering Department, who believes in the Zeitgeist movement, or at least parts of it. You might know him, if you're a math major - he's rather famous amongst those who love logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathArt
I'll update this in about eight hours... I have classes to get to now.
Well i just feel like something is very wrong in the world and i believe a change must be done and zeitgeist movement has the best vision for me
You and I think alike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Look
I watched this video ages ago when it was posted on Digg, it makes some good points about money but come on the Venus Project?
It's such a nice idea but it's just never going to happen, people are power hungry and a society without a leader would divide the populace over simple political differences.
All I have to say is fuck this. I cant be bothered to take into this, whats the point? What I understand about this (very little...) is that this movement basically calls everything corrupt, and unjust. Well, quite frankly if you dont like it, leave. Move to a new country, migrate to a part of the country where you will be out of touch with the 'unjust' world. The world we live in is all about personal gain, and is a dog eat dog world. If you dont like it, go be a rasta, go move to a remote tribe in africa, go live on a farm in the middle of no where.
Our current world has a system in place to do good, the system was designed to provide justice, and equality. No this doesnt happen all the time, but we hear more often then not the times when our system fails. It is more interesting and entertaining when our system fails, so cases of injustice are pointed out through movies, articles, television etc... The 'flaws' in the system is that it has to be reinforced 100%. Which means people can manipulate the system in their favor, and although common sense tells you the person is wrong, or guilty the system says they are correct/innocent. The people who do this for the most part do well in society, although they are looked down upon, they do well (financially and spiritually). You may ask why cant we sometimes let common sense prevail? Simple, its like going into an elementary school and giving 1 child a chocolate bar, why that person? Why none of the others? Soon they will all want one.
I have been on 2 pages of this thread, and it appears this thread (as expected) has turned into a debate between extreme supporters, and extreme opposition. Quite frankly, how do you have time to be in a heated debate about this? Like I said before, if you dont like your current situation, change it, but be realistic, use common sense.
Perhaps watch the video before making yourself look like an idiot...
Perhaps read my reply before calling my an idiot. I said a couple times I cant be bothered to watch a 1.5 hour video about some paranoid group trying to spark a revolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clysse
Hence, you shouldn't be posting here, in this thread, Haggard. Kudos on confirming Clysse's statement.
Doesn't discussion of a video imply one has watched said video before commenting on it?
Edit: Ok, so i'm re-watching this, and it just got to the thesis statement about "We're in slavery for money blah blah blah" and the problem that popped into my head was, what's the cure? I mean, sure it's nice seeing people enlightened about the corruption, but what other system exists that can support the raging population of the world and still maintain the stability (I know, there isn't much, but there is some stability in the world that stops us all from dying) that exists today?
Seen this, and alot of others. and guess what, they are right :lol:
Great movie, I like it very much !
wow. its so true that its scary... i shall get my brother/cousins to watch this.
can you get away with not paying a loan with this equation?
that the money they borrowed, was made out of thin air?