Videos leaked of US troops firing on civilians and reporters in Iraq

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Originally Posted by darkdemon89

so after watching this video, then reading every single post. ive come to this. i know that half of you wont agree and the other half will. because thats just the kinda response you will get with something like this. But enough with this.

The american military is basically bred to kill. dont deny it, look at your own countries military, even if your not in a current war ( your lucky) you can find AT LEAST 10 guys who are ready to blow the heads off some other guys. For the people that say the gunner was trigger happy, lets think of it this way. If you were told that the war your fighting was to "better the world" and were shown images and video of what these guys have done to INNOCENT people, OF COURSE you would get trigger happy if you saw these guys. They basically tell you to kill and be proud about what you did. i understand that these people, or at least some, where completely innocent. and its horrible that it happened. but just like others have said. WTF are you doing crouching around a building pointing SOMETHING at a helicopter. USE YOUR HEAD. i dont care if this is a warzone or not. Obviously there is something going on, otherwise they wouldnt have been patrolling the area. If you look at the crouching individual and compare it with other war videos, you would swear the guy was trying to shoot you down. now i did notice that he said they were being fired upon right after he noticed this, was it unnecessary? probably. But again, you have to realize that some of these military people could have lost fellow soldiers in the same exact way.

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He didn't point shit at the helicopter. He was taking a picture of something down the road. The helicopter, a common sight in Baghdad, was about a kilometre away. He had absolutely no way of knowing that it was watching them, it could have been watching anyone or anything. To him, all he was doing was innocently taking a picture. This guy was born-and-raised Iraqi war photographer. I think he knew a little more about how to behave in these situations than you or any of us, so we can all stop accusing him of being stupid now.

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Another this to note is that the whole van incident is pretty well uncalled for. i understand the fight on both sides, but dont make it sound like the american military are terrorists for hurting a child that they didnt know existed til they scanned the area. If that was so, they would have blown the head off her. INSTEAD they helped the child..... Get your definitions of terrorist correct.
Also, it wasnt the gunners fault for this. one of them told a higher ranked officer about the situation, which was then approved by that SAME officer to engage, notice the chatter between them.. If they were so damn trigger happy, they wouldn't care and just blow the whole city up or atleast kill the guy the van was trying to save. so u cannot blame the gunner himself. After the main group of military personal showed up, notice that someone asked who authorized the attack. obviously wondering wtf went wrong if they were all civilians.

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They opened fire on an unarmed man giving medical assistance to a wounded and unarmed person. That's a war crime, and would be even if he was an insurgent. It's against the first Geneva Convention. He saw the situation, requested to open fire, and then he did. That makes him responsible.

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Another big part you need to understand is this. Just because this video shows a group of 10-20 people being slaughtered for just an assumption doesnt mean this is the worst thing to ever happen in a war. go look up the statistics for civilian causalitys in any war. WWI WWII Vietnam ANYTHING! you will notice that EVERY WAR HAS THIS PROBLEM. its part of it, sadly.

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Because bad things are always happening it doesn't mean we should ignore it when something like this comes to light. I don't doubt that stuff like this happens/happened a whole lot in Iraq, but it's rare that we get to see the raw footage.

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Originally Posted by troublemaker1111

He didn't point shit at the helicopter. He was taking a picture of something down the road. The helicopter, a common sight in Baghdad, was about a kilometre away. He had absolutely no way of knowing that it was watching them, it could have been watching anyone or anything. To him, all he was doing was innocently taking a picture. This guy was born-and-raised Iraqi war photographer. I think he knew a little more about how to behave in these situations than you or any of us, so we can all stop accusing him of being stupid now.

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im not really sure about this, if u watch him, why would he be continuously moving farther out as if he was waiting to get the "right" photo of the object. he doesnt even bring the camera up til right before the copter goes behind the building. yes its possible he was taking a pic of something else. but to point the lens (or whatever) right before going behind the building is a little sketchy if i were a gunner.

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They opened fire on an unarmed man giving medical assistance to a wounded and unarmed person. That's a war crime, and would be even if he was an insurgent. It's against the first Geneva Convention. He saw the situation, requested to open fire, and then he did. That makes him responsible.

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like i said, i dont like this part at all. was totally wrong but he got the OK to open fire, so its not his fault. yea he is trigger happy to. clearly can see that

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Because bad things are always happening it doesn't mean we should ignore it when something like this comes to light. I don't doubt that stuff like this happens/happened a whole lot in Iraq, but it's rare that we get to see the raw footage.

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and yea its awesome footage (not as in deaths) but to get this footage, its rare

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Originally Posted by darkdemon89

INSTEAD they helped the child..... Get your definitions of terrorist correct.

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False, the ground troops radioed for permission to MedEvac the children to a US military hospital (which is what they are supposed to do) and it was denied, so the children were to suffer until the local ambulance came and be treated there instead...

Crash

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Originally Posted by CrashOveride

False, the ground troops radioed for permission to MedEvac the children to a US military hospital (which is what they are supposed to do) and it was denied, so the children were to suffer until the local ambulance came and be treated there instead...

Crash

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watch the video from 21:39 to 21:50
if thats not a little girl being taken to the tank/humvee, then i must be so baked i cant see straight

and if you could, can u tell me where they got denied, i cant find it. not being an ass, i just really cant find it

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Originally Posted by darkdemon89

watch the video from 21:39 to 21:50
if thats not a little girl being taken to the tank/humvee, then i must be so baked i cant see straight

and if you could, can u tell me where they got denied, i cant find it. not being an ass, i just really cant find it

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27:30~28:20, request and denial.

Crash

yea, thats a bummer.
but he makes it sound like they were notified of this pickup.
still, at least someone tried

thanks for sharing!

btw, what does ip in that sense stand for?

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Originally Posted by darkdemon89

yea, thats a bummer.
but he makes it sound like they were notified of this pickup.
still, at least someone tried

thanks for sharing!

btw, what does ip in that sense stand for?

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I'd hazard a guess at Iraqi Police.

Crash

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Originally Posted by CrashOveride

I'd hazard a guess at Iraqi Police.

Crash

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ah, ok thanks.

i also just noticed that towards the end, with the missle part, that they were worried about the friendlys and went a different route to shoot it. to bad for the guy walking right in front of the building tho. again, shoulda waited to shoot

They're bunch of senseless people.
I bet all they can do is use guns.

Put them on a 7th grading science quiz bee.

they have a show for that, its called "are u smarter than a fifth grader"

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Originally Posted by SeraphiPod

They're bunch of senseless people.
I bet all they can do is use guns.

Put them on a 7th grading science quiz bee.

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Senseless people huh?
Right, because having military buddies backs is so senseless.

Hey, ever thought of "Oh, they can potentially fire upon friendlies!"

Fucking prick.

FYI;
http://i42.tinypic.com/29e5fmr.jpg

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Originally Posted by darkdemon89

ah, ok thanks.

i also just noticed that towards the end, with the missle part, that they were worried about the friendlys and went a different route to shoot it. to bad for the guy walking right in front of the building tho. again, shoulda waited to shoot

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That wasn't a friendly - That was one of the guys traveling into the empty building.

It's called war, whether you like it or not. It happens all the time.

You'd all be pissed the fuck off at the military if they opened fire on your loved ones because they were carrying photography equipment in your normal, occupied hometown.

I saw weapons. I've never seen photography equipment that looked like a Kalashnikov or an RPG. Further, carrying weapons or being near someone carrying weapons in a warzone when you're on the losing side is typically a really fucking stupid idea unless you want to be killed. Also, I do believe reports said that weapons matching those visibly confirmed in the video were found amongst the bodies. So either you're a conspiracy theorist in regards to the US army (and probably an extreme hypocrite, like in troublemaker's case) and don't believe the report can be trusted, or you're making the classic mistake of trying to apply hindsight to a situation where a snap judgement was called for and made. Such a thing is academic at best.

People make mistakes and in a militarily hot zone, you are NOT free to do whatever you want there, and that means it's a good idea to think ahead and avoiding carrying around equipment that might be easily mistaken for a weapon. Baghdad is not like your local city where people assume nothing is wrong. The second you try to make an analogy between the two is the second you abandon all hope at a logical argument. In most cases, the rules of engagement would've been much stricter and required more stringent proof of insurgency, but as multiple army officials have said, the situation was part of a more involved series of engagements. Taking it out of context is just another issue surrounding this controversy.

Its very bad to fire in any civilians and its very good to capture this type of images and show people for military attitude.
Only one request is "Live and Let Live".
Good Job.

Thanks