[Recommendation]gaming laptop (support any games), Vista OS

[Metaz]

I am talking about a proccessor not being powerfull enough... yes.
But thing is that most proccessors can't even handle 2GB with full performance let alone the 4GB(WITHOUT being synchronized...), let the synchronization alone, I'll ask my friend whenever he signs into MSN to explain exactly how the thing works, I can give a more or less explaination and calculation... but it will only confuse you or anyone else who reads it.
So let it be for now :)

As for games, its developers fault... 100% their fault, OS has nothing to do with it, I just want to play the certain game so I stick to the OS that supports it... but then again I'm sure me and you are people who can tweak the shit out of the OS and make it run practically anything, but lets get back to the topic, most people that don't know what they are doing... just buy the PC get Vista 64, bring the PC back and say "The thing won't run, it eats my ram, it won't let me run things, it blocks everything *and the list goes on*" so XP 32 is the best choise for those who don't know what do they want to do with the OS or those who just want to play games or mess with programms.

gaming laptops don't even exist, they are just like half assed consoles, and don't even get close to a fully functional PC.

[TomParad0x]

I am talking about a proccessor not being powerfull enough... yes.
But thing is that most proccessors can't even handle 2GB with full performance let alone the 4GB(WITHOUT being synchronized...), let the synchronization alone, I'll ask my friend whenever he signs into MSN to explain exactly how the thing works, I can give a more or less explaination and calculation... but it will only confuse you or anyone else who reads it.
So let it be for now :)

As for games, its developers fault... 100% their fault, OS has nothing to do with it, I just want to play the certain game so I stick to the OS that supports it... but then again I'm sure me and you are people who can tweak the shit out of the OS and make it run practically anything, but lets get back to the topic, most people that don't know what they are doing... just buy the PC get Vista 64, bring the PC back and say "The thing won't run, it eats my ram, it won't let me run things, it blocks everything *and the list goes on*" so XP 32 is the best choise for those who don't know what do they want to do with the OS or those who just want to play games or mess with programms.

gaming laptops don't even exist, they are just like half assed consoles, and don't even get close to a fully functional PC.

Yea, I would be one of those people who tweak it :)

I am going to tweak Vista some time, I just havnt bothered yet :/ But I am impressed with how fast it is untweaked. Running Aero glass, no startup services or items that arent needed are turned off (They are on - with the exception of that sidebar thing with the weather plugin stuff, didnt like it) and it runs quite a bit faster than my XP did on a fresh format after being tweaked some.

And yea, I will never buy a "Gaming" laptop - I may be a laptop, with decent specs, but for gaming? no way in hell - not unless I cant have a desktop, and wont be able to get my hands on a decent one like mine.

And it kind of sucks Vista comes default with pre-built comps. I have seen them selling comps not fit to run Vista very well - good thing I build my own.

[Metaz]

don't do anyone favors, let the developers work for their money and when they come up with a release, we take and make it better than it was :P

I can't see any logic in computer stores selling PC's with Vista's... they know that people that just want the pc for games, or internet/w/e else people need PC's for... don't know how to make it operate right, and ofcourse the "brilliant" retards... I mean technicians of the store won't do it because its waste of their time and that means loss of money doing it for free... only logic I can see is that people will come back with fucked up OS and they can ripp the people off for money for repearing/tweaking/doing nothing(Like always).

[TomParad0x]

don't do anyone favors, let the developers work for their money and when they come up with a release, we take and make it better than it was :P

I can't see any logic in computer stores selling PC's with Vista's... they know that people that just want the pc for games, or internet/w/e else people need PC's for... don't know how to make it operate right, and ofcourse the "brilliant" retards... I mean technicians of the store won't do it because its waste of their time and that means loss of money doing it for free... only logic I can see is that people will come back with fucked up OS and they can ripp the people off for money for repearing/tweaking/doing nothing(Like always).

Well, they sell vista because they can. They can boast about its better security / looks / etc. They really dont care if you can use the OS or not, just as long as you buy it and keep it.

And yea, I consider the stores "technicians" to be morons - I will never take something to them to be fixed, nor will I ever recommend anyone do that, as most of the time they dont know what they are doing and overcharge to do it.

We went to bestbuy to buy my parents laptops (lol, yea, they wanted to go to bestbuy to get it...), and my parents told them what they want, and instantly the store sales dude walks directly to this Celeron laptop, with like 512MB of ram and starts going on about how good it is. Needless to say, I instantly shut him down, start to use the comp and it freezes after taking 5 minutes to open up MS word and then direct them to a good laptop. Oh, and the celeron comp was running XP home and it had a "Vista Ready" sticker on it... (Vista was not out yet)

Its almost as bad as the guy who "Installed" (GG, you can place a cable modem on a desk and plug a wire into it) our "internet service" tried to convince me that the service was 100Mbps.

[Metaz]

Well its bestbuy... says pretty much.
the graphics card I bought from a shop has 3 years guarantee... "surprisngly" the card is overheating for unknown reason, it has enough cooling so no real reason to overheat... I came to the store so they can switch it, the technician takes the card, puts into a machine and asks me how do I know its overheating... I told him I used Riva tuner, he told me its false info.
Yes ofcourse it can be false on 1-3 degrees, but when the card has 60c IDLE and 85c after 2 hours of heavy games and I hit a BSOD with a nv4_disp.dll error... there is something wrong with the card(Drivers are most stable).
Well that wasn't the most fun, the idiot puts it into a machine an open case machine... runs a game, lets it be on for 5 mins, sees the temperature is 50 and tells me to go home, I told him to get back to highschool and finish 9th grade, because temperature IS AFFECTED by the opened case, and the AC that is in the store... and also you can't expect an overheat in 5 minutes unless you fry the thing with a lighter.
In the end, it took them 2 weeks to get it into their heads that the card IS faulty.

[NoPeace]

Yeah thats what i meant, 64bit apps.

Makes sense the 32 bit proggies would run slower on vista64, the 32bit applications have to run through some sorta VM in vista 64 right? I dunnoz how that works.

Yeah. They use the WoW (Windows on Windows) emulator to have a 32-bit windows environment emulated on the 64-bit.

The WoW in XP x64 is total crap but the one in Vista is very well done. Most cases there is no performance loss and in quite a number of them you actually get gains.

So what/ do 64-bit can run 32-bit apps?

Yes 64-bit can run 32-bit.

Alot of games do not support the 64 bit system, most of the new ones do, some don't... I personally like MMORPG's and the most successfull ones(Excluding WoW) were made in the 2000-2005 when there was no support for 64 bits.
If you plan playing games that are released recently, and do have a support for a 64, then you can buy it... right now its a matter of choise, sooner or later it will be a must since things that were made at the 2000-2005 will die out.

Actually most don't support 64-bit. But more and more are planned to be on 64-bit. So most of the upcomming DX10 games will be both 32 and 64-bit.

lol @ 4gb ram.
so you will have a 4gb ram box, with a proccessor that is not good enough to run it, what will you get? Thats right, a BSOD.
And no there is no proccessor that will just run 4gb ram without memory synchronization, and if you synchronize your memory to avoid errors, you basically slow down the effectivity of your big amount of ram... imo, 4gb is useless unless you have a quad core or anything that is good enough to work properly without synchronization(very rare when a pc can run without synchronization without giving too much errors after certain amount of time).

Umm... You haven't need to sync the RAM speed and the CPU bus for ages. Intel systems run their CPUs at 1066, 1333, and 1600mhz buss while the RAM is on a 800mhz buss.

Also 64-bit CPUs are not limited to 3.5gb of RAM as the old 32-bit ones where. They support up to the terabytes.

Things change you know. Try learning how it is now.

As for Vista, if you want games, forget about Vista... most stable gaming OS is XP with SP2 installed, Vista doesn't support alot of things let alone the Vista64.

Hope I helped.

Actually Vista does support a lot of things now and the x64 version supports just about everything the x86 version does.

And with that in mind. You could have said 98SE was more stable then XP when it first came out.

And with Vista SP1, XP's advantage will dwindle.

And by the way. XP SP1 is more stable and better for gaming then XP SP2.

Please, tell me where you are getting your information because I find it false, as far as Ram goes. I know plenty of people who have run 4GB of ram and not BSOD, they just dont read it all unless they are on a 64bit OS.

I would like to reference: Coding Horror: Dude, Where's My 4 Gigabytes of RAM? as to the problem causing 32bit OSs not to see 4GB of ram. I have never heard of the issue you are talking about, so please link it.

He's living in the past. What he was talking about was stuff from the early days of Pentium 4.

As for the games... what? I know people who run 2000 games just fine on Vista 64bit... And I will be joining them this week most likely, I will say on here if I have any problems (I will make it a personal note to go play some of my older games now :p).

Old games don't matter. Just that newer ones have performance issues. Which by the way has been fixed by MS for nVidia cards. ;)

As long as you have a 64bit OS that can emulate 32bit (Which windows vista 64 does, and does well from what I hear), 32bit applications should run fine - but I will give my personal opinion when I test it.

For 99% of the time. Since it is emulation there are a few things it just cannot do. Like for instance older versions of unpopular software that barely supports 32-bit.

But other then that for just about everything you use it will work.

No they may not get a BSOD, BSOD was only an example as it what I was getting before synchronization on my new computer, but you will sure have faulty performance. I will try to find a good explaination on what Memory Synchronization is and I'm sure you will understand what am I talking about.
As for games, its really matter of luck, some do, some don't... take RYL for example, its an MMORPG that doesnt run on 64 and imo thats a great MMORPG, Neocron was developed in 2000, true... was updated many times after its release... I'm talking about games that are complete.
There are enough games that I personally like and are not supported by the 64 OS, yet all are supported by 32, so I find 32 just alot more effective.

I highly doubt Vista can run anything developed in 2000... but if you say, guess its possible since I never bothered.

Umm... They may not support the 64-bit code path but with the WoW 32-bit emulator they run just fine.

I've ran RYL on Vista x64 and it was flawless.

Also I never said that running 4GB ram is impossible, its possible if you synchronized your memory or if your proccessor is quad core, or one of the latest duo's.

Your CPU doesn't need to be a quad or dual. It will work as long as your CPU is 64-bit.

I've used 4gb of RAM with an old AMD Athlon 64 4000+. And that was a single core 2.4ghz CPU from 3 years ago.

Most likely, would be nice :) As I, and a few other people I have asked are not quite sure what you mean by it. I am guessing you are talking about having a processor not powerful enough to keep up with 4GB of memory being used (Such as my E6600 cant keep up, and hence bottlenecks, my 8800GTX).

Can't keep up with it. That doesn't matter. They only issue is that the buss speed can't keep up with the data delivery. And that's the biggest issue with Intels. Their FSB system bottlenecks the performance.

Amount has no reflects on performance. Actually it does. More RAM you have then the more info can be stored for possible use by the CPU and in turn you have better performance as you don't need to access the HDD as often.

So adding RAM can only increase performance.

The only problem I can from adding RAM is if you add RAM of different speed. Then you need to adjust the settings so that they all work at the settings of the slowest chip.

And if the guy is talking about sync the RAM chips to each other then it's his own stupid fault for not getting the same settings as the other chips. And if you run the slowest unit more then it can handle it will cause system instability.

But that will happen with any amount of RAM and if you get all the sticks identical then you'll never have to face that problem.

That's down to carelessness.

But yea, it is a matter of what game. However, I believe this to be the fault of the MMO developers to a degree, if its an MMO - if they want their games to keep up with the times and continue to be popular they will update their code to run on 64bit systems (as well as 32, for now), because the progress of this is not going to stop for them. So I guess the only thing we can hope for is for them to either update their code, or the 32bit emulation gets better to a point of being able to play them.

The 32-bit emulation is good enough to do it. The only reasons why a game might fail is if you don't up date your DX9 drivers for Vista. Vista has DX10 and not DX9. You need to add DX9 to it to get full game support. A common mistake from most people.

64bit is going to become more of a standard in time, just like 32 bit was before 64.

Of course it is. All Vista ready computers that are sold now is 64-bit. It was originally going to be just 64-bit. The reason why they didn't do that is mainly due to Intel. Intel's laptop that are pre Core 2 Duo (ie Core Due, Core Solo, Pentium M) are only 32-bit. On top of that hardware vendors took to long to make 64-bit drivers.

Guaranteed that the next Windows will be 64-bit only. As in 2 years everything will be 64-bit.

Well I run a Core 2 Duo E6600, would that be enough? I do not have the money for one of the quad cores yet - but I intend on getting one.

You know more then that person. So why are you asking him. A good old first gen Opteron can easily handle it.

And your E6600 is 50 times more powerful.

I am talking about a proccessor not being powerfull enough... yes.
But thing is that most proccessors can't even handle 2GB with full performance let alone the 4GB(WITHOUT being synchronized...), let the synchronization alone, I'll ask my friend whenever he signs into MSN to explain exactly how the thing works, I can give a more or less explaination and calculation... but it will only confuse you or anyone else who reads it.
So let it be for now :)

Lol... You have absolutely no clue on how the memory system of a computer works.

gaming laptops don't even exist, they are just like half assed consoles, and don't even get close to a fully functional PC.

Umm.... I've seen laptops with a high end desktop Dual core CPU, 4gb of RAM, 2 HDDs in RAID, and dual 7950GTXs.

Now how doesn't that compete with desktops? They can. But it's unpractical as they cost 2x as much.

Yea, I would be one of those people who tweak it :)

I am going to tweak Vista some time, I just havnt bothered yet :/ But I am impressed with how fast it is untweaked. Running Aero glass, no startup services or items that arent needed are turned off (They are on - with the exception of that sidebar thing with the weather plugin stuff, didnt like it) and it runs quite a bit faster than my XP did on a fresh format after being tweaked some.

That's because Vista is vastly more efficient then XP. And it's optimized for multiple core/processors unlike XP.

And it kind of sucks Vista comes default with pre-built comps. I have seen them selling comps not fit to run Vista very well - good thing I build my own.

If it's not fit to run Vista they install Vista basic. Which is basically XP with the Vista kernal and DX10.

don't do anyone favors, let the developers work for their money and when they come up with a release, we take and make it better than it was :P

I can't see any logic in computer stores selling PC's with Vista's... they know that people that just want the pc for games, or internet/w/e else people need PC's for... don't know how to make it operate right, and ofcourse the "brilliant" retards... I mean technicians of the store won't do it because its waste of their time and that means loss of money doing it for free... only logic I can see is that people will come back with fucked up OS and they can ripp the people off for money for repearing/tweaking/doing nothing(Like always).

It's not the stores choice. It's the OEMs choice on what OS they install on the system.


And if you don't know. Vista is very simple. It's vastly more user friendly then past OSes so for people with out computer knowledge its easier for them to do things. And Vista comes with lots of benifits like parental controls and enhanced media center ablities. Making it very good for the average user.

And if someone wants a gaming comptuer they don't buy it from a store anyways.

Well its bestbuy... says pretty much.
the graphics card I bought from a shop has 3 years guarantee... "surprisngly" the card is overheating for unknown reason, it has enough cooling so no real reason to overheat... I came to the store so they can switch it, the technician takes the card, puts into a machine and asks me how do I know its overheating... I told him I used Riva tuner, he told me its false info.
Yes ofcourse it can be false on 1-3 degrees, but when the card has 60c IDLE and 85c after 2 hours of heavy games and I hit a BSOD with a nv4_disp.dll error... there is something wrong with the card(Drivers are most stable).
Well that wasn't the most fun, the idiot puts it into a machine an open case machine... runs a game, lets it be on for 5 mins, sees the temperature is 50 and tells me to go home, I told him to get back to highschool and finish 9th grade, because temperature IS AFFECTED by the opened case, and the AC that is in the store... and also you can't expect an overheat in 5 minutes unless you fry the thing with a lighter.
In the end, it took them 2 weeks to get it into their heads that the card IS faulty.

That's why you RMA it to the manufacture and not take it to the vendor. Ever read the notice in the box?

NoPeace - out

[Metaz]

I won't even bother answering that, as you show no respect to those who try and say something.

[NoPeace]

I won't even bother answering that,

Then why spam that message?

as you show no respect to those who try and say something.

That actually goes to you. You show no respect to those who correct you.

NoPeace - out

[TomParad0x]

lol, I am going to need a bigger monitor so I can quote all this stuff on one page :o
*opens notepad to get the most viewing space possible*

Yeah. They use the WoW (Windows on Windows) emulator to have a 32-bit windows environment emulated on the 64-bit.

The WoW in XP x64 is total crap but the one in Vista is very well done. Most cases there is no performance loss and in quite a number of them you actually get gains.

Yea, I had the sad misfortune of testing x64 XP pro to see what it was like - not fun, not fun at all...

Actually most don't support 64-bit. But more and more are planned to be on 64-bit. So most of the upcomming DX10 games will be both 32 and 64-bit.

I am guessing most upcoming games are going to be both, until 64-bit is the standard and 32bit is no longer used by a large amount of people.

Umm... You haven't need to sync the RAM speed and the CPU bus for ages. Intel systems run their CPUs at 1066, 1333, and 1600mhz buss while the RAM is on a 800mhz buss.

Also 64-bit CPUs are not limited to 3.5gb of RAM as the old 32-bit ones where. They support up to the terabytes.

Things change you know. Try learning how it is now.

Ah, that would explain why I didnt know what he meant :)

Actually Vista does support a lot of things now and the x64 version supports just about everything the x86 version does.

And with that in mind. You could have said 98SE was more stable then XP when it first came out.

I agree, given time and updates, the popularity of XP is going to start to dwindle even more.

He's living in the past. What he was talking about was stuff from the early days of Pentium 4.

Yea, I didnt know much about comps back then - at least not hardware - so that would be why I didnt know what he meant.

For 99% of the time. Since it is emulation there are a few things it just cannot do. Like for instance older versions of unpopular software that barely supports 32-bit.

But other then that for just about everything you use it will work.

Yea, my m8 has been using Vista 64 for about a week or two now, and has had no problems with anything yet.

Your CPU doesn't need to be a quad or dual. It will work as long as your CPU is 64-bit.

I've used 4gb of RAM with an old AMD Athlon 64 4000+. And that was a single core 2.4ghz CPU from 3 years ago.

Thats good to know, had me worried there was something I was missing.

The 32-bit emulation is good enough to do it. The only reasons why a game might fail is if you don't up date your DX9 drivers for Vista. Vista has DX10 and not DX9. You need to add DX9 to it to get full game support. A common mistake from most people.

Yea, I had to do this to get Bioshock to work.



Of course it is. All Vista ready computers that are sold now is 64-bit. It was originally going to be just 64-bit. The reason why they didn't do that is mainly due to Intel. Intel's laptop that are pre Core 2 Duo (ie Core Due, Core Solo, Pentium M) are only 32-bit. On top of that hardware vendors took to long to make 64-bit drivers.

Guaranteed that the next Windows will be 64-bit only. As in 2 years everything will be 64-bit.

You know more then that person. So why are you asking him. A good old first gen Opteron can easily handle it.

And your E6600 is 50 times more powerful.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt :) But it was mainly aimed at anyone to answer, though, for all I know he could (Or anyone else for that matter) know of a problem I do not, as I dont know everything.

Umm.... I've seen laptops with a high end desktop Dual core CPU, 4gb of RAM, 2 HDDs in RAID, and dual 7950GTXs.

Now how doesn't that compete with desktops? They can. But it's unpractical as they cost 2x as much.

Yea, which is why I will never buy one. Take the cost of that kind of laptop and see what kind of desktop you can make.

That's because Vista is vastly more efficient then XP. And it's optimized for multiple core/processors unlike XP.

So ive noticed.

If it's not fit to run Vista they install Vista basic. Which is basically XP with the Vista kernal and DX10.

If they consider "Fit" to running vista being a 3.0 min on their "Vista Experience" score thing, and they install a Vista Home version on something with 3.0 then they will not get a huge performance difference, where as me switching from XP Pro SP2 to Vista Ultimate (32bit, but as I said, going to install 64bit here some time this week) and my score is 5.3, I have quite a bit better performance.

It's not the stores choice. It's the OEMs choice on what OS they install on the system.

True.

And if you don't know. Vista is very simple. It's vastly more user friendly then past OSes so for people with out computer knowledge its easier for them to do things. And Vista comes with lots of benifits like parental controls and enhanced media center ablities. Making it very good for the average user.

And if someone wants a gaming comptuer they don't buy it from a store anyways.

True, but some still do. Granted, they arent "hardcore" gamers, who like to have the best, but some gamers still buy pre-build - which I suspect is where some of the bad rep comes from.

That's why you RMA it to the manufacture and not take it to the vendor. Ever read the notice in the box?

NoPeace - out

Yea, I never sent anything back to the store to get it replaced. I wouldnt trust Geek squad to fix a damn clock - let alone replace and reinstall my graphics card.

Also, Never take a HDD back to a store (I personally wont send one back to a manufacturer either - id rather buy a new one and destroy the old one) - I went to buy the 320GB WD HDD I have now at bestbuy, bought it, took it home and noticed the pins in the back were all bent to hell, the HDD color was not that of modern HDDS (Modern / newer HDDs are mostly black, this one was silver / stainless steel colored - which indicates its older). It turns out it was a USED 80GB HDD, with an entirely different serial number than the HDD had that was supposed to be in there. We took it back, asking what the hell was up, but they wouldnt take it back, at first. We finally got the manager, and she was reluctent to - until we told her that we had spent $3000 there in the past year (Not on comp stuff, on TVs / DVD players / Games / and DVDs) and then she finally choose to "Make an exception". We then told her to open the box and check the serial number, to verify the new one was really the HDD to come with it. So basically, chances are, one of their employees, or one at the HDD packaging facility, swapped out a 80GB Used bent to hell one and took the 320GB. The 320GB I got to replace another HDD I had, my parents wanted me to send it back to the manufacturer (Back when I still had prebuilt comps) and I refused - good thing I guess.

[NoPeace]

lol, I am going to need a bigger monitor so I can quote all this stuff on one page :o
*opens notepad to get the most viewing space possible*

Lol...

Yea, I had the sad misfortune of testing x64 XP pro to see what it was like - not fun, not fun at all...

You telling me... The damn video drivers are shit, the sound drivers are shit, and not to mention you get major performance loss with 32-bit apps.

I am guessing most upcoming games are going to be both, until 64-bit is the standard and 32bit is no longer used by a large amount of people.

Yeah of course. Just like for the next 2 or so years games will also have a DX9 version.

Ah, that would explain why I didnt know what he meant :)

To be honest I struggle to know what he means... :eh:

I agree, given time and updates, the popularity of XP is going to start to dwindle even more.

Yeah I just can't wait for SP1. That is where most of performance issues will be fixed. The Beta version gives a huge performance increase.

Yea, I didnt know much about comps back then - at least not hardware - so that would be why I didnt know what he meant.

Old stuff is a horror show. Ever seen pre plug-n-play devices? It's a horror show to configure. :cry:

Yea, my m8 has been using Vista 64 for about a week or two now, and has had no problems with anything yet.

The last time I used it I only ran into two problems. It was that Supreme Commander kept crashing but that has been fixed by MS. The other problem was crap audio drivers from creative. They have finally released working drivers and not beta ones so that could be fixed. If not I'll just go with my onboard sound card which I know works well with Vista.

Thats good to know, had me worried there was something I was missing.

That other guy talks as if he knows everything but doesn't actually know it. So his bullshitting can be convincing to people that don't know stuff.

Yea, I had to do this to get Bioshock to work.

How is Bioshock on the PC. I've heard it was a little laggy but looks great.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt :) But it was mainly aimed at anyone to answer, though, for all I know he could (Or anyone else for that matter) know of a problem I do not, as I dont know everything.

No one knows everything. :1:

Yea, which is why I will never buy one. Take the cost of that kind of laptop and see what kind of desktop you can make.

Yeah I know. The only laptops in my opinion that are worth getting are the ones aimed at high battery life. Since the purpose of them are to be on the go. What's the use of it if it only lasts 30 mins. Lol...

If they consider "Fit" to running vista being a 3.0 min on their "Vista Experience" score thing, and they install a Vista Home version on something with 3.0 then they will not get a huge performance difference, where as me switching from XP Pro SP2 to Vista Ultimate (32bit, but as I said, going to install 64bit here some time this week) and my score is 5.3, I have quite a bit better performance.

Well at 3.0 it's very well suited for desktop use. But of course if you have a gaming computer it will be much better. By the way what is causing your score to be that low? The RAM? I know my setup has everything at 5.9 but the RAM which is at 5.4 or something. Which makes no since as I got 4gb of Cosair XMS2 DDR2-800 at 4-4-4-12 and it doesn't change when it move it up to 1066 @ 5-5-5-15. Oo

True, but some still do. Granted, they arent "hardcore" gamers, who like to have the best, but some gamers still buy pre-build - which I suspect is where some of the bad rep comes from.

Well they do buy prebuilt ones but it's typically ordering it from someplace like Dell. So it isn't one of the half ass store ones. =P

Yea, I never sent anything back to the store to get it replaced. I wouldnt trust Geek squad to fix a damn clock - let alone replace and reinstall my graphics card.

Yeah I don't typically like that either. Like with my damn TV here. I have warranty on it. So they have been here 3 times to fix a problem that I know what it is but they keep saying it's something else. Just like my damn car radio also.

Oh well need to get them sorted out as my TV is due to be refunded and my radio needs to be fixed one more time (since they didn't recored the first 2 times) and then I can get a refund for that also which is good as it's 4 years old. Lol...

Also, Never take a HDD back to a store (I personally wont send one back to a manufacturer either - id rather buy a new one and destroy the old one) - I went to buy the 320GB WD HDD I have now at bestbuy, bought it, took it home and noticed the pins in the back were all bent to hell, the HDD color was not that of modern HDDS (Modern / newer HDDs are mostly black, this one was silver / stainless steel colored - which indicates its older). It turns out it was a USED 80GB HDD, with an entirely different serial number than the HDD had that was supposed to be in there. We took it back, asking what the hell was up, but they wouldnt take it back, at first. We finally got the manager, and she was reluctent to - until we told her that we had spent $3000 there in the past year (Not on comp stuff, on TVs / DVD players / Games / and DVDs) and then she finally choose to "Make an exception". We then told her to open the box and check the serial number, to verify the new one was really the HDD to come with it. So basically, chances are, one of their employees, or one at the HDD packaging facility, swapped out a 80GB Used bent to hell one and took the 320GB. The 320GB I got to replace another HDD I had, my parents wanted me to send it back to the manufacturer (Back when I still had prebuilt comps) and I refused - good thing I guess.

Damn that sucks. Well I'm one of those types of people to be honest. The people at bestbuy are dumb. I bought a 250gb PATA HDD 4-5 years ago. Took out my old 40gb drive. Put it in the box fro the 250gb drive and returned it. Said it was defective and they gave me my money back. What idiots they have working there. Especially when the drive clearly reads 40gb. :icon6:

NoPeace - out

[TomParad0x]

Lol...

lol, shorter to quote this time :o

You telling me... The damn video drivers are shit, the sound drivers are shit, and not to mention you get major performance loss with 32-bit apps.

Yea, its a mess - its sad they even still sell it.

Yeah of course. Just like for the next 2 or so years games will also have a DX9 version.

Yea, I know EVE is making a DX9 and DX10 version - I cant wait to see EVE in DX10.

Yeah I just can't wait for SP1. That is where most of performance issues will be fixed. The Beta version gives a huge performance increase.

Really? Is SP1 beta open for the public to test? or is that one of the MSDN things? If its MSDN - I would get it but I hear its like $3000, and I couldnt find an exact price when I looked (Though, was a while ago - I should look at it again).

Old stuff is a horror show. Ever seen pre plug-n-play devices? It's a horror show to configure.

Seen? Yes, had to mess with it alot? no :o was before my time of actually doing hardware-related stuff, atleast anything big.

The last time I used it I only ran into two problems. It was that Supreme Commander kept crashing but that has been fixed by MS. The other problem was crap audio drivers from creative. They have finally released working drivers and not beta ones so that could be fixed. If not I'll just go with my onboard sound card which I know works well with Vista.

Yea, supcom has some nice crashes for me atm, im not 100% sure why (Been to lazy to look into it) - like every time I close the game, it closes then Vista says "This game is no longer responding" and asks me to close it (Or whatever that dialog says).

How is Bioshock on the PC. I've heard it was a little laggy but looks great.

I have heard its laggy too, granted, ive only played the demo - but I turned the options to full + the DX10 and I have had no lag at all on it. That new Lost Planet though - I got 35FPS max on that for some reason.

No one knows everything.

I wish I did :o

Yeah I know. The only laptops in my opinion that are worth getting are the ones aimed at high battery life. Since the purpose of them are to be on the go. What's the use of it if it only lasts 30 mins. Lol...

I agree, as long as it has decent / good performance and a long bettery life, thats all I would need.

Well at 3.0 it's very well suited for desktop use. But of course if you have a gaming computer it will be much better. By the way what is causing your score to be that low? The RAM? I know my setup has everything at 5.9 but the RAM which is at 5.4 or something. Which makes no since as I got 4gb of Cosair XMS2 DDR2-800 at 4-4-4-12 and it doesn't change when it move it up to 1066 @ 5-5-5-15. Oo

My score is a 5.3 base. Both graphics are 5.9, HDD is 5.4 (Most likely because its an IDE / PATA, I am going to upgrade to a 15kRPM one here some time soon), ram is 5.5, processor is 5.3.

I am not sure why my processor is that low (Its a C2D E6600, upgrading that too soon when I can), and I am not sure why my ram is higher than yours? I only have 2GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800 4-4-4-12.

Well they do buy prebuilt ones but it's typically ordering it from someplace like Dell. So it isn't one of the half ass store ones. =P

lol, you would be supprized who I have seen in bestbuy buying computers, seen some "gamers", older people, etc. And they all buy into the crap the sales staff talks.

Yeah I don't typically like that either. Like with my damn TV here. I have warranty on it. So they have been here 3 times to fix a problem that I know what it is but they keep saying it's something else. Just like my damn car radio also.

Oh well need to get them sorted out as my TV is due to be refunded and my radio needs to be fixed one more time (since they didn't recored the first 2 times) and then I can get a refund for that also which is good as it's 4 years old. Lol...

Yea, from now on everything I get computer related is off newegg, maybe tiger direct if its cheaper there (But I have heard bad things about their shipping, though, I dont see how that could be their fault unless they control the shipping process of their items).

Damn that sucks. Well I'm one of those types of people to be honest. The people at bestbuy are dumb. I bought a 250gb PATA HDD 4-5 years ago. Took out my old 40gb drive. Put it in the box fro the 250gb drive and returned it. Said it was defective and they gave me my money back. What idiots they have working there. Especially when the drive clearly reads 40gb.

NoPeace - out

Yea, I cant blame you :)

I mainly blame it on their dumbass staff. I ended up getting my 320GB drive, so I am happy :)

The most recent HDD (And only other one after the 320) is a WD 500GB external (Which is basically an internal in a case with a small cooling system and such), runs on firewire 800 if I recall, and I got it off newegg no problems.

Anyway, off to finish the bathroom, I dont suppose you have an MSN or anything you could PM me?

edit: I have aim / msn / yahoo

[NoPeace]

Yea, its a mess - its sad they even still sell it.

I'm shocked that they even started to sell it in the first place. It was originally free.

Yea, I know EVE is making a DX9 and DX10 version - I cant wait to see EVE in DX10.

That's going to be sweet. I remember 4 years ago or so when I was beta testing it the graphics was so amazing. Now that I started to play it again the graphics are still good.

Can't wait to see it in DX10. It's going to be amazing.

Really? Is SP1 beta open for the public to test? or is that one of the MSDN things? If its MSDN - I would get it but I hear its like $3000, and I couldnt find an exact price when I looked (Though, was a while ago - I should look at it again).

It's actually selective in the MSDN. Most people can't have access to it yet. And it's more then $3000. :1:

Seen? Yes, had to mess with it alot? no :o was before my time of actually doing hardware-related stuff, atleast anything big.

It was before my time too but my high school only had that type of stuff for us to learn on so meh... What a pain it was when the teach would come over and start fooling with the jumpers on ad-in-cards. -.-

Yea, supcom has some nice crashes for me atm, im not 100% sure why (Been to lazy to look into it) - like every time I close the game, it closes then Vista says "This game is no longer responding" and asks me to close it (Or whatever that dialog says).

If it happens when you close the game it's no big deal. It used to crash on me in the middle of a 3 hour game. -.-

I have heard its laggy too, granted, ive only played the demo - but I turned the options to full + the DX10 and I have had no lag at all on it. That new Lost Planet though - I got 35FPS max on that for some reason.

I need to test all that stuff out when I get Vista on this system again. I've only seen Company of Heroes in DX10 and that was amazing. Though what a performance hit it takes when you enable stuff.

My score is a 5.3 base. Both graphics are 5.9, HDD is 5.4 (Most likely because its an IDE / PATA, I am going to upgrade to a 15kRPM one here some time soon), ram is 5.5, processor is 5.3.

I am not sure why my processor is that low (Its a C2D E6600, upgrading that too soon when I can), and I am not sure why my ram is higher than yours? I only have 2GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800 4-4-4-12.

Who knows how it's done. My old e6700 would get a 5.9 on the score. I would have assume the e6600 would have got the same if not at least 5.8. And that's weird. We have the same RAM and you score higher. oO

lol, you would be supprized who I have seen in bestbuy buying computers, seen some "gamers", older people, etc. And they all buy into the crap the sales staff talks.

Yeah I know. It's funny to watch them try to sell me a computer. After they give me a run down on the system I go though and correct them on all of their mistakes. I'm such an arse. :icon6:

Yea, from now on everything I get computer related is off newegg, maybe tiger direct if its cheaper there (But I have heard bad things about their shipping, though, I dont see how that could be their fault unless they control the shipping process of their items).

Tiger direct takes ages to process your order and not to mention their shipping costs are so damn high. Newegg has to be the fastest in shipping out stuff. Though Zipzoomfly is a great company. They do it pretty quick as long as your order is under $2k. Anything over they make you do all sorts of stuff for security purposes. And no to mention their prices are some of the best and everything has free shipping with 2 day shipping costing $3-4 extra on the order.

Yea, I cant blame you :)

I mainly blame it on their dumbass staff. I ended up getting my 320GB drive, so I am happy :)

The most recent HDD (And only other one after the 320) is a WD 500GB external (Which is basically an internal in a case with a small cooling system and such), runs on firewire 800 if I recall, and I got it off newegg no problems.

Anyway, off to finish the bathroom, I dont suppose you have an MSN or anything you could PM me?

edit: I have aim / msn / yahoo

Just PM me if you want my MSN.

NoPeace - out

[TomParad0x]

I'm shocked that they even started to sell it in the first place. It was originally free.

Same, its really bad :/

That's going to be sweet. I remember 4 years ago or so when I was beta testing it the graphics was so amazing. Now that I started to play it again the graphics are still good.

Can't wait to see it in DX10. It's going to be amazing.

Yea, have you seen the new high-poly models they have been working on? And thats just for the DX9 + graphics engine update :o

They are redoing / fixing up and optimizing their graphics engine for better performance, and hopefully make large-scale fleet-battles (Blob warfare ftw) viable again. People still do it, but I have been in a few, and I swear powerpoint goes faster than it.

It's actually selective in the MSDN. Most people can't have access to it yet. And it's more then $3000.

Ah, yea, dont have $3 grand yet even :o

Saving most of my money for comp upgrades

It was before my time too but my high school only had that type of stuff for us to learn on so meh... What a pain it was when the teach would come over and start fooling with the jumpers on ad-in-cards. -.-

Ouch, yea, I never really took computer classes in school. I did AP computer science in highschool, moved my 12th grade year, took the cisco networking class (didnt learn jack shit in it, because I had missed so much of it) and Comp Sci, but I knew more about java than everyone in the class...

If it happens when you close the game it's no big deal. It used to crash on me in the middle of a 3 hour game. -.-

Yea, thats why I havnt looked into it much before. I dont really crash in-game more, I applied the memory-allocation fix madboris made and released on their site. I have 2GB ram and 4GB Pagefile set. Here is the post: h**p://forum.gaspowered.com/viewtopic.php?t=2382

I need to test all that stuff out when I get Vista on this system again. I've only seen Company of Heroes in DX10 and that was amazing. Though what a performance hit it takes when you enable stuff.

Yea, I cant wait to see crysis in DX10 :o

Who knows how it's done. My old e6700 would get a 5.9 on the score. I would have assume the e6600 would have got the same if not at least 5.8. And that's weird. We have the same RAM and you score higher. oO

lol, yea, its odd. If anything your ram score should be higher than mine as you have more, and its the same ram.

Yeah I know. It's funny to watch them try to sell me a computer. After they give me a run down on the system I go though and correct them on all of their mistakes. I'm such an arse.

Yea, I used to go in and ask their "geek squad" programming questions and they would just have a blank stare on their face.

Tiger direct takes ages to process your order and not to mention their shipping costs are so damn high. Newegg has to be the fastest in shipping out stuff. Though Zipzoomfly is a great company. They do it pretty quick as long as your order is under $2k. Anything over they make you do all sorts of stuff for security purposes. And no to mention their prices are some of the best and everything has free shipping with 2 day shipping costing $3-4 extra on the order.

Yea, I think I will stick with newegg then, they have been great so far.

[NoPeace]

Yea, have you seen the new high-poly models they have been working on? And thats just for the DX9 + graphics engine update :o

They are redoing / fixing up and optimizing their graphics engine for better performance, and hopefully make large-scale fleet-battles (Blob warfare ftw) viable again. People still do it, but I have been in a few, and I swear powerpoint goes faster than it.

Would like to see that stuff. And quite funny about the large battle things.

Ah, yea, dont have $3 grand yet even :o

Saving most of my money for comp upgrades

Well it's geared towards Developers who can afford it. Hence the name.

Microsoft Developers Network

Ouch, yea, I never really took computer classes in school. I did AP computer science in highschool, moved my 12th grade year, took the cisco networking class (didnt learn jack shit in it, because I had missed so much of it) and Comp Sci, but I knew more about java than everyone in the class...

Lol... I did so much programming in High School. Did 2 classes on PASCAL, one on VB, one on JScript, and the AP course which I got a 5 on the exam.

In college it's been mostly hardware, networking, and OSes.

Yea, I cant wait to see crysis in DX10 :o

You're not the only one. I'm counting down till the demo on the 25th. lol

lol, yea, its odd. If anything your ram score should be higher than mine as you have more, and its the same ram.

That's MS for you. Makes no sense.

Yea, I used to go in and ask their "geek squad" programming questions and they would just have a blank stare on their face.

Lol... At least the geek squad at my local best buy I went to school with most of them. They do know some programming, but they were horrible at it in class. :icon6:

Yea, I think I will stick with newegg then, they have been great so far.

Though take a look at ZZF. They do have great prices and free "FedEx" shipping. I hate the UPS shipping on newegg and they charge so much for FedEx shipping. :cry:

NoPeace - out

[Demote]

More Ram the better playing performace aswell, take for instance Battle Field 2, It has increased the speed in which I play i used to have 1gb of RAM now I have 3gb, It's worth buying more.