Upgrading

[Rishwin]

Well no, not really, but i needed to get a new mobo and since my GF's Mobo died i decided i'll give her my current one. Then she needs to get new ram and a CPU to go with it so in the end i figured i'd just get myself all new stuff and give her my old ones.

Only problem being i'm not too sure about what to upgrade too, so of course i need opinions. Note: do not account for vista when making a recommendation, i have used it and hate it and refuse to use it. XP only for me. However, i may put vista back onto a separate partition just for DX10 gaming, so i want the GFX card to be high.

Mobo: haven't actually got any ideas, i want preferably a Gigabyte or Asus because they are available here, MSI, XFX and DFI are no-go zones. I need atleast 6 SATA ports and it needs to have 2 pcie slots incase i wanna have 2 GFX cards sometime. It also obviously needs to be compatible with the cpu (duh).

CPU: Do i really need quad core or not? Got an e6600 now which i am giving to my GF, cannot decide if i want a q6600 or an e8200. Difference being e8200 is only dual but has higher default clock rate and is 45nm. q6600 has higher total cache but does 1/2 of it still count if i'm only using 2 cores since i'm on xp?

RAM: Really depends on the motherboard i get and if it supports 1066 or just 800. either way i want it to be corsair, its either that or Kingston and i don't really like Kingston. so yea i'm actually fine with this one, i'll just ajust it to suit the mobo.

GFX: i have been working quite alot so i am able to save up $250 per week after all my expenses. so i'm thinking about $500 on gfx as long as its worth it. Giving her my 8800GT, so the question is the 1GB 3870 X2, or a 512MB 9800GTX? Also, how big of a power supply would i need? Giving her my 600w coolermaster, so will i need 750 or 800w to be able to support crossfire/SLI? electronics was always a weak point of mine so i could never calculate how much energy something uses.

leaving tomorrow and will be back in a few days so i'll reply tomorrow then a few days later. cheers guys.

[MentaL]

[deadly2003]

just on first note is she going to use that system for gaming if not not point giving ur stuff... just build her a system for her needs, as if she is not gonna be gaming no point giving her a 8800gt just sell it and get a less power useage one.

e6600 is still good... also i have had many chances to upgrade but as the e6600 does everything dont really need to upgrade then. but if u were to... the e8200 is good.

gfx just look around ^^ 8800gtx is like half the price now from when i bough one... if i just waited a year i could have 2 :(.

[Ramuthra]

Well the mobo i brought would meet all those criteria however you'd be restricted to an AMD cpu, but the pci-e slots are revision 2.0.

as for gfx i'd go for the ATI 3870x2 as im an ATI/AMD whore

[Alfons]

Well as for the cpu you could either get an E8400 or a Q9300/9450.
Hmm for the gfx a 3870x2 is a good card, so you'd have to get a x38/x48 mobo for it to be future proof (crossfire).
Ram could be anything really, some x48 mobos support ddr3, most of them are ddr2.
OCZ,Corsair and Crucial are good brands for ram..

[RoRRe]

Hmm for the gfx a 3870x2 is a good card, so you'd have to get a x38/x48 mobo for it to be future proof (crossfire).

uhm )) isnt X2 a single card ? so it dont need 2 PCI-E slots ? ( just asking ^^ )

[omen]

3870x2 - is two graphics cards

[Ramuthra]

it connects with a single pci-e slot however if your pcie slots are directly next to each other you'll only be able to use one as the cooler sits in the next slot(with no connection though)

[Rishwin]

just on first note is she going to use that system for gaming if not not point giving ur stuff... just build her a system for her needs, as if she is not gonna be gaming no point giving her a 8800gt just sell it and get a less power useage one.

e6600 is still good... also i have had many chances to upgrade but as the e6600 does everything dont really need to upgrade then. but if u were to... the e8200 is good.

gfx just look around ^^ 8800gtx is like half the price now from when i bough one... if i just waited a year i could have 2 :(.

Yeh it'll be for gaming too, also gives us a 3rd pc to lan with. But the 8800gtx is the same price here as it was when it was released. So sadly, i wont go there ^^

And alfons, why a 8400? It has hardly any difference to the e8200 except that it costs more :P

[NoPeace]

Go quad. Why? Because I know around here a e6600 costs more then a q6600. Go figure.

But that doesn't really mean anything. The quad will be better in the long run. When you finally get the hang of Vista you'll see benefits form the 2 extra cores as Vista can manage them. Even then if you are on XP then you can still make use out of 3 of them easily. Just manually tell a dual threaded game to use cores 1 and 2 and then leave core 0 for your OS tasks. This will give you quite a performance increase.

As for RAM. DDR2-800 at 4-4-4-12 timmings just can't be beat. Cheap as hell for 2gb of it. Not to mention it performs very well and if you want DDR2-1066 at 5-5-5-15 then it's the same stuff but different default settings and higher price.

Mobo is the tricky part and it relies on what GPU you want. If you want nVidia cards then you need to get a 680i board. If you want AMD cards then you can get any Intel chipset. I personally use an EVGA reference 680i board and they are great. In fact I have 2 of them. So that chipset is reliable.

Now on to the GPU. Well depending on what board you got is where you pick what GPU you are going to get. For your price range I have only two recommendations for you. Either a 3780GX2 or dual 9600GTs. Both cost about the same and both will run amazingly fast. Actually the two GTs will be faster but not by that much.

Granted the 9800GTX is a good card but dual 9600GTs is cheaper and faster. The 9800GTX should only be considered if you don't want to run SLI at all or want to run two of them in SLI.

For a PSU. If you want two ultra high end cards eventually with a lot of HDDs then you need at least a 750w PSU. If you want only two high end GPUs or a single ultra high end one then 600-700w should be enough.

I highly recommend the PC Power & Cooling PSUs as they are silent and very stable.

NoPeace - out

[Rishwin]

But that doesn't really mean anything. The quad will be better in the long run. When you finally get the hang of Vista you'll see benefits form the 2 extra cores as Vista can manage them. Even then if you are on XP then you can still make use out of 3 of them easily. Just manually tell a dual threaded game to use cores 1 and 2 and then leave core 0 for your OS tasks. This will give you quite a performance increase.

Hmm yeh good point, i spose having slightly more cache and higher clock speed won't really make a difference at all.

Now on to the GPU. Well depending on what board you got is where you pick what GPU you are going to get. For your price range I have only two recommendations for you. Either a 3780GX2 or dual 9600GTs. Both cost about the same and both will run amazingly fast. Actually the two GTs will be faster but not by that much.

wow 2 9600gt's are faster? i would have thought 9800's, but not 9600's.

Granted the 9800GTX is a good card but dual 9600GTs is cheaper and faster. The 9800GTX should only be considered if you don't want to run SLI at all or want to run two of them in SLI.

well they don't actually sell 9600GT's here :P

also, putting two 9800GTX's wont really be worth it, will it? SLI does not exactly give too much of a performance boost as compared to crossfire... and a 3780gx2 only costs $100 more ($50 USD?) for double the ram.

also, lets say i wanted to crossfire two 3780gx2's, how big of a PSU would i need? I will also be running 1 sata DVD drive, 4 sata HDD's, and 6 LED case fans from it.

[NoPeace]

Hmm yeh good point, i spose having slightly more cache and higher clock speed won't really make a difference at all.

Depends really on what you are doing. Sure speed is great and will do better in certain tasks but expandability is also good when you are doing multiple things at once. Really is all about what you want done.

wow 2 9600gt's are faster? i would have thought 9800's, but not 9600's.

The 9600GT is nearly as fast as the 8800GT. Same basic chip just less shaders.

In terms of performance compared to the 3870XT it's faster. The 3870X2 is just two 3870XT chips on the same board.

well they don't actually sell 9600GT's here :P

That sucks... It's the best card at the moment for price:performance ratio. Cheap and very fast.

also, putting two 9800GTX's wont really be worth it, will it? SLI does not exactly give too much of a performance boost as compared to crossfire... and a 3780gx2 only costs $100 more ($50 USD?) for double the ram.

It wont give as much of a boost as CF but nVidia chips are vastly faster by default anyways.

At the moment quad what ever isn't that good. Sure CrossfireX is better then Quad SLI but it's just not as good as dual card setups.

Not as good as in price:performance, stability, and support for it.

Dual 9800GTX will be a little slower then dual 3780X2s on some games but on the vast majority you'll have a better experience with the nVidia cards as they have better support.

Not to mention the biggest advantage with nVidia cards at the moment is that Aegia Physix will be ported to them and not AMD cards.

Though if you are getting an Intel board then CF is your only option and the 3780X2s are the best option there.

Though once the CrossfireX drivers are working great I can see a lot of people running dual 3870X2 (or the R700 when they come out this summer) and a 9600GT for physics.

also, lets say i wanted to crossfire two 3780gx2's, how big of a PSU would i need? I will also be running 1 sata DVD drive, 4 sata HDD's, and 6 LED case fans from it.

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750w will do just fine. I've ran dual 8800GTXs under heavy OC, a QX6800, 5x SATA drives, and 2 case fans just fine on it.

The 8800GTX, 8800 Ultra, 2900XT, 3870X2, 9800GTX, and 9800GX2 will all run on it in dual card mode. Only time you need more is when you want 3 cards.

NoPeace - out

[Rishwin]

The 9600GT is nearly as fast as the 8800GT. Same basic chip just less shaders.

So why 2 9600GT's and not 2 8800GT's?

I did find a place here that has 9600GT's so mite go for that, never SLI'd 2 cards before so it would be good to do it.

Not to mention the biggest advantage with nVidia cards at the moment is that Aegia Physix will be ported to them and not AMD cards.

So they already have the hardware to be physics cards but just need drivers or patches to utilize it? That would be kinda handy. What effect would that have on games? And surely dual cards will be essential then since having to render the graphics plus the physics will put too much of a strain on the cards to have any real performance increase?

Though once the CrossfireX drivers are working great I can see a lot of people running dual 3870X2 (or the R700 when they come out this summer) and a 9600GT for physics.

lol 9600 just for physics? Wouldn't it be better to get a dedicated proper physics card?

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750w will do just fine. I've ran dual 8800GTXs under heavy OC, a QX6800, 5x SATA drives, and 2 case fans just fine on it.

No OCZ power supplies here :( we dont even have OCZ ram T_T

Atleast now i know 750W is enough, i'll go for a toughpower or corsair PSU.

Yeh i'll go for a 680i board, depending on what they got here i'll see what RAM to get. What brands make em? Pretty much the only mobo brands available here are Asus, gigabyte, and Intel. Shitty, i know -.-

[omen]

So why 2 9600GT's and not 2 8800GT's?

I did find a place here that has 9600GT's so mite go for that, never SLI'd 2 cards before so it would be good to do it.


So they already have the hardware to be physics cards but just need drivers or patches to utilize it? That would be kinda handy. What effect would that have on games? And surely dual cards will be essential then since having to render the graphics plus the physics will put too much of a strain on the cards to have any real performance increase?


lol 9600 just for physics? Wouldn't it be better to get a dedicated proper physics card?


No OCZ power supplies here :( we dont even have OCZ ram T_T

Atleast now i know 750W is enough, i'll go for a toughpower or corsair PSU.

Yeh i'll go for a 680i board, depending on what they got here i'll see what RAM to get. What brands make em? Pretty much the only mobo brands available here are Asus, gigabyte, and Intel. Shitty, i know -.-

actually no - 9600 will be much better for physx and will save you 1 pci port
Nvidia GPU Physics Engine Up And Running, Almost - Tom's Hardware

[NoPeace]

So why 2 9600GT's and not 2 8800GT's?

I did find a place here that has 9600GT's so mite go for that, never SLI'd 2 cards before so it would be good to do it.

Umm.. 9600GT = $150usd and the 8800GT = $250usd. See the difference? Extra $100 per card = 2-4fps. Not worth it.

So they already have the hardware to be physics cards but just need drivers or patches to utilize it? That would be kinda handy. What effect would that have on games? And surely dual cards will be essential then since having to render the graphics plus the physics will put too much of a strain on the cards to have any real performance increase?

No performance increase. If anything there will be performance decrease.

Physix allows for realistic physics, 1000s of objects, and interactive environments.

Basically... Think about how interactive Crysis is and do more with it.

lol 9600 just for physics? Wouldn't it be better to get a dedicated proper physics card?

Not at all. An 8400 is faster then the dedicated physics cards.

No OCZ power supplies here :( we dont even have OCZ ram T_T

Atleast now i know 750W is enough, i'll go for a toughpower or corsair PSU.

Order from them direct. :1:

I would avoid the ThermalTake stuff. Their cases = great. Everything else = overpriced crap.

Yeh i'll go for a 680i board, depending on what they got here i'll see what RAM to get. What brands make em? Pretty much the only mobo brands available here are Asus, gigabyte, and Intel. Shitty, i know -.-

EVGA, PCChips, XFX, BFG, and Foxconn all make boards according to reference specs. ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, and DFI makes custom 680i boards.

NoPeace - out

[themasher]

why get 680i boards are they better then the 780i boards or something?

[Alfons]

I wouldn't get a 680i board.
Cause if you ever decide you want to upgrade to quad core, you're fucked with an 680i board.
They dont support the new quad cores..(yes i feel fucked :P).
Only a certain few might support them.

[Rishwin]

Umm.. 9600GT = $150usd and the 8800GT = $250usd. See the difference? Extra $100 per card = 2-4fps. Not worth it.

Sweet :P

Physix allows for realistic physics, 1000s of objects, and interactive environments.

Basically... Think about how interactive Crysis is and do more with it.

Sweet :P

Not at all. An 8400 is faster then the dedicated physics cards.

lol o.O

Order from them direct. :1:

I cant T_T
No credit card and i get paid cash from work so i dont actually use my bank account for anything, let alone online banking :P

I would avoid the ThermalTake stuff. Their cases = great. Everything else = overpriced crap.

sweet :P

EVGA, PCChips, XFX, BFG, and Foxconn all make boards according to reference specs. ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, and DFI makes custom 680i boards.

Mmm... Gigabyte it is then, they've always looked kinda cool lol and Asus is starting to bore me.

[NoPeace]

why get 680i boards are they better then the 780i boards or something?

780i boards are 680i boards with an extra chip to support two PCI-Express 2.0 slots and all 3 slots supports 16x bandwidth.

At that you are looking at extra cost and more heat output. Which wont give you any performance gains unless you are running Tri SLI.

I wouldn't get a 680i board.
Cause if you ever decide you want to upgrade to quad core, you're fucked with an 680i board.
They dont support the new quad cores..(yes i feel fucked :P).
Only a certain few might support them.

Umm... They all support it. They all just don't overclock via FSB good on quad cores for reference boards except EVGA ones.

Mmm... Gigabyte it is then, they've always looked kinda cool lol and Asus is starting to bore me.

Gigabyte makes great boards, though they do horrible ATI cards. At least in the past they did. XD

MSI also does good non-Intel chipset boards. I had a nF4 SLI board from them and it was an amazing rock solid board. Their 680i board is also spoused to be very good and comes with 4 PCI-Express 16x slots!

NoPeace - out

[Alfons]

Are you sure?
I've seen noumerous sites that say the Yorkfield cpu's won't run on a 680i board.
Because intel made some last minute changes before launching them.
Although the asus striker extreme and DFI LANParty UT NF680i SLI-T2R will support yorkfield through a bios update.
Since those two didn't use the nvidia reference design.

[Rishwin]

Damnit, the Asus Striker Extreme is the only 680i board around here >.<
And the only 780i boards are the Striker 2 and the P5N-T Deluxe.

Spose its back to Asus, but i am used to their boards and BIOS by now.

[Alfons]

I have the striker extreme, its a damn good board tbfh.
And it supports the new cpu's!

[NoPeace]

Are you sure?
I've seen noumerous sites that say the Yorkfield cpu's won't run on a 680i board.
Because intel made some last minute changes before launching them.
Although the asus striker extreme and DFI LANParty UT NF680i SLI-T2R will support yorkfield through a bios update.
Since those two didn't use the nvidia reference design.

Yeah for the newest of the Intel chips they wont. For the vast majority of them they do. All Kentsfield chips run on it.

You shouldn't be getting anything better then a Kents since it's just a waist of money. $100+ more for the newer ones for 1% increase of performance. Not worth it at all.

NoPeace - out

[Rishwin]

Striker Extreme page didn't say anything about pcie 2.0, but the P5N-T Deluxe did. Is pcie 2.0 actually faster or what? Also, the P5N-T Deluxe and striker 2 both say they support 3 way SLI, but they only have 2x pcie 2.0 slots. why would you have 2 cards on a faster speed than the other?

[Alfons]

Yeah I noticed that too.1x PCI-E 16x and 2x PCI-E 16x 2.0.
Very strange indeed.If you run 3-way sli wouldn't they all run at the speeds of a PCI-E 1.0 slot?
Since a 1.0 cant go to 2.0 but the 2.0 can run on 1.0 speeds.

[Ramuthra]

Thing is you wont notice any difference worthwhile on a pcie-2.0 slot just yet, so even though my 3650 is a pcie 2.0 card in a pcie 2.0 slot it would run just as well in a pcie 1.0 slot.