Re: [General] Where to start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mgX^
whoever told him to start with C, go back to your grave you old mummy! :P C teaches bad habbits, and should be avoided for beginners. Its ancient and barely used commercially anymore...well except games and OS. Dont go with something not OOP... i really hate those who went from a non OOP to an OOP lang...theyre impossible to work with. Wish i could fire them, really, but its too hard to get programmers these days.
Bad habbits? HOW!? Almost ever language comes from C! It teaches you things much closer to the CPU then any OOP language. I would actually say that anyone who doesn't master ASM or C (or something similarly close to the CPU) is NOT a quality programmer, since you hardly know how the CPU works, you can never optimize your application fully. It's like driving a space shuttle at home, you don't have any idea how the shuttle works, you just pass the bigger / global commands accross and the shuttle will find out the rest.
Remember, OOP is a coding style, so is functional programming. I could just as well say "don't learn Java/C#, it teaches you bad habbits!" if I was a functional programmer. Your reply doesn't make any sense.
If you WOULD properly order and structure your code, you wouldn't need OOP to do this for you and to cooperate with your employee's. If you properly divide the program into certain files with strict naming rules etc, and wise use of includes, it would be structured very good.
Re: [General] Where to start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daevius
Bad habbits? HOW!? Almost ever language comes from C! It teaches you things much closer to the CPU then any OOP language. I would actually say that anyone who doesn't master ASM or C (or something similarly close to the CPU) is NOT a quality programmer, since you hardly know how the CPU works, you can never optimize your application fully. It's like driving a space shuttle at home, you don't have any idea how the shuttle works, you just pass the bigger / global commands accross and the shuttle will find out the rest.
Remember, OOP is a coding style, so is functional programming. I could just as well say "don't learn Java/C#, it teaches you bad habbits!" if I was a functional programmer. Your reply doesn't make any sense.
If you WOULD properly order and structure your code, you wouldn't need OOP to do this for you and to cooperate with your employee's. If you properly divide the program into certain files with strict naming rules etc, and wise use of includes, it would be structured very good.
If you think proper programmers who DO master multiple language and who DID take the time to learn different programming methods should be fired, I highly doubt you should be their boss.
funny, but ppl dont...the oldschool programmers in many cases never picked up on the OOP logic. I am not saying that one should not learn C, but i would say that complete rookies should start with a highlevel language to speed up the learning process and then move their way down.
Re: [General] Where to start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mgX^
funny, but ppl dont...the oldschool programmers in many cases never picked up on the OOP logic. I am not saying that one should not learn C, but i would say that complete rookies should start with a highlevel language to speed up the learning process and then move their way down.
Ah I see what you mean, slightly misunderstood what you meant (sorry for that last sentence). But the same is backwards, OOP to non-OOP. As long as a programmer is open for new technology, and isn't conservative, one can learn virtually anything :)
Re: [General] Where to start?
Well, I went to HTML clases at the age of 13, every tuesday, and I remember like NOTHING xD
When I turned 14, I began VB.NET.
My VB.NET is broken, so I could not continue.
A few weeks ago, I started Delphi, and I am very happy. I am still 14. Might be hard to understand it when you begin, but you might come along. ;)
And those who say you need good maths to code:
You mostly just need to know Variables. Like x = whatever xD
So I would say get Delphi. Find a torrent. I wont give you one though, since it is a crack.
Happy coding! :D
Re: [General] Where to start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daevius
Bad habbits? HOW!? Almost ever language comes from C! It teaches you things much closer to the CPU then any OOP language. I would actually say that anyone who doesn't master ASM or C (or something similarly close to the CPU) is NOT a quality programmer, since you hardly know how the CPU works, you can never optimize your application fully. It's like driving a space shuttle at home, you don't have any idea how the shuttle works, you just pass the bigger / global commands accross and the shuttle will find out the rest.
Remember, OOP is a coding style, so is functional programming. I could just as well say "don't learn Java/C#, it teaches you bad habbits!" if I was a functional programmer. Your reply doesn't make any sense.
If you WOULD properly order and structure your code, you wouldn't need OOP to do this for you and to cooperate with your employee's. If you properly divide the program into certain files with strict naming rules etc, and wise use of includes, it would be structured very good.
C? Has to be the worst first language, especially for someone who's only 9 years of age. Functional programming? I think you mean procedural programming.
While I agree with the idea that C is a language worth learning for any serious programmer, I also agree that it's old and impractical now. Honestly, with C++ (which is actually also too old, although C++0x is a huge improvement) around, I see the practical uses of C lacking.
As for the topic at hand: Ignore anyone who mentions starting with HTML/CSS. I recommend that you just try to learn more about computing in general before picking up a book or two on a programming language (Yes, I said book, not tutorial). I find that tutorials are generally good when you know a bit about the subject, which is not the case. As for the language to choose, go with Java. It's been around for a while, and probably has the most developed community willing to help you. Let's not forget that it's also a simple yet useful language.
Re: [General] Where to start?
Mr. Lucifer, I generally don't recommend Java to beginners, simply because a lot of people who just start out don't have that much of a motivation when they see how hard it is to simply produce a GUI, and the drag and drop of Visual Basic gives them that. Although this probably isn't a wise recommendation, I seriously doubt everyone in this topic is going to take up a Computer Science degree, and at 9, it's usually just what interests you at that very moment, and he or she is going to want quick results, not the boring console results of Java.
King Izu, I actually believe you are mistaken. I have no idea whether or not you have any formal study in programming, but there are differences between the functional and procedural paradigms. Functional programming puts emphasis on the evaluation of mathematical functions, and doesn't deal with the ideas of objects or having a state or mutability. Procedural on the other hand emphasizes using procedures, which many languages call functions, and is a style of imperative programming, so does deal with the ides of states. In effect, procedural and functional programming are opposites, so from my background you just came off looking slightly misinformed.
By the way, breathing is also old and impractical, I heard tracheotomies for breathing is the new best thing.
Re: [General] Where to start?
My advice to you, is to learn the basic languages first, like HTML, CSS, (basicly web design first).
Then move onto the more diffcult languages. I study HTML & CSS in my spear time (I know a lot of HTML & CSS, but I don'y know everything).
The best thing to do is, buy some progamming books. I have loads based on a selection of languages. Java, PHP, C++, C#, loads of them. But don't read to many at once, other wise your lose track of the things you already know. I've done that before and it's not nice to forget something while in a middle of a project for example.
Re: [General] Where to start?
Good HTML&CSS Tutorial is here: http://inpics.net/htmlcss.html
PHP and Other Tutorials also can be found there
Re: [General] Where to start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhiteMoga
King Izu, I actually believe you are mistaken. I have no idea whether or not you have any formal study in programming, but there are differences between the functional and procedural paradigms. Functional programming puts emphasis on the evaluation of mathematical functions, and doesn't deal with the ideas of objects or having a state or mutability. Procedural on the other hand emphasizes using procedures, which many languages call functions, and is a style of imperative programming, so does deal with the ides of states. In effect, procedural and functional programming are opposites, so from my background you just came off looking slightly misinformed.
By the way, breathing is also old and impractical, I heard tracheotomies for breathing is the new best thing.
No no no, you've just misinterpreted my post. Read it again. I was simply pointing out to Daevius that he may have used the wrong choice of words (using 'functional' instead of a seemingly more appropriate 'procedural'). I am fully aware of the differences of functional and procedural programming (seeing as though I do use F#, which is a functional language).
You can't compare breathing to a programming language, last time I checked, we didn't create newer better versions. If given a choice, would you really choose a car that was made 30 years ago over a car that was made 10 years ago? Probably not, because you'd realize that in that 20 year gap, a whole lot more has been learned about making cars better. The newer car would be the obvious choice because you know that it's going to be safer, more efficient, and have more features than the old car. You can also say that's a bad comparison, considering software doesn't face the physical limitations of things like cars, hardware, buildings etc. I just don't see why anyone would use something like C over something like C++, which is clearly a whole lot better.
Re: [General] Where to start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
King Izu
You can't compare breathing to a programming language, last time I checked, we didn't create newer better versions. If given a choice, would you really choose a car that was made 30 years ago over a car that was made 10 years ago? Probably not, because you'd realize that in that 20 year gap, a whole lot more has been learned about making cars better. The newer car would be the obvious choice because you know that it's going to be safer, more efficient, and have more features than the old car. You can also say that's a bad comparison, considering software doesn't face the physical limitations of things like cars, hardware, buildings etc. I just don't see why anyone would use something like C over something like C++, which is clearly a whole lot better.
Well, newer isn't always better. Old cars still drive around while new cars are often less solid or properly build, although this is because manufacturers rather deliver quick-breaking products so people have to buy a new one more soon (= cash). I can think of numerous places where I'd use C over C++, simply because including C++ headers increases size significantly, or C++ is just not needed. Of course, C++ is a great language and 50 kB is nothing, but if you were to write an algorithm, there's no need for OO style.
I currently am writing a C++ GUI library, and I honestly think that it could've been done by now if I were to use C. Why? Because half the coding in C++ you're structuring the code, creating the classes or header files. The other half you actually write the code, write the functions and the procedures. In C you have much more time doing the latter. Structured code? Yes, put functions in different files and you basically have the same thing.
Also, the lib was getting up to 1 MB when compiled statically (GCC) which is quite a lot for a library of 55 files, 10,300 lines (of which 6,900 code only lines). In the lib I don't do much string manipulation, and a std::vector is rather easy to build in C. The only thing that'd take more time would be the std::map's. While a GUI lib is one of THE examples to use OOP, I can just as well go with C.
Sure, C is old but not useless. It could use an update or two, but the language itself is rather neat actually.
Re: [General] Where to start?
Now your just confusing the little boy, All he wants too know is where to start lmao and theres so many different options thrown at him.
Mate, i started my programming when i was 9 aswell, i started off simple with HTML and Java script and it got me along way, only thing i need to tackle now is PhP and C++
Re: [General] Where to start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daevius
Well, newer isn't always better. Old cars still drive around while new cars are often less solid or properly build, although this is because manufacturers rather deliver quick-breaking products so people have to buy a new one more soon (= cash). I can think of numerous places where I'd use C over C++, simply because including C++ headers increases size significantly, or C++ is just not needed. Of course, C++ is a great language and 50 kB is nothing, but if you were to write an algorithm, there's no need for OO style.
I currently am writing a C++ GUI library, and I honestly think that it could've been done by now if I were to use C. Why? Because half the coding in C++ you're structuring the code, creating the classes or header files. The other half you actually write the code, write the functions and the procedures. In C you have much more time doing the latter. Structured code? Yes, put functions in different files and you basically have the same thing.
Also, the lib was getting up to 1 MB when compiled statically (GCC) which is quite a lot for a library of 55 files, 10,300 lines (of which 6,900 code only lines). In the lib I don't do much string manipulation, and a std::vector is rather easy to build in C. The only thing that'd take more time would be the std::map's. While a GUI lib is one of THE examples to use OOP, I can just as well go with C.
Sure, C is old but not useless. It could use an update or two, but the language itself is rather neat actually.
Newer cars are like that for a reason, to protect the people inside of it, a feature, not a money-making scheme. I'm not saying there is always a need for OO style, when it comes down to a large application or library, OO style makes things a lot easier.
Meh, I just spent about half an hour thinking about it, and I've changed my view of using C. You're actually totally right. Although I still wouldn't recommend it as a first language.
Re: [General] Where to start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
King Izu
I'm not saying there is always a need for OO style, when it comes down to a large application or library, OO style makes things a lot easier.
Oh yes, that's absolutely true. OOP is perfect for any large scale project or when you're working with multiple developers. Picking C would require a good few conventions among the team as well as good documentation, while C++ is already, in some way, 'documented' (class hierarchy, const, etc).
C as a first language? No I guess not. PHP was a nice introduction to the syntax for me, but jumping in C as first language would require quite some courage ^^
