T5 Skills under the microscope

[Vormav]

YouTube - ‪PT T5 Double Tech Skill - X-Strike‬‏


I am not good with long speeches so I will keep it simple.
I am planing to create new T5 skills with new animations etc.
and some double/triple tech skills, as you see on video.
This is just an example (simple animation based on motion capture I recorded, nothing special). Two knights with selected same skill (and in a range) will execute this animation when one of them will use skill (I wish ;)).

I don't have anything to share yet because I just found time to start this.

The goal is to create free and open source of skills that can be attached to any Client/Server. Free database for creating new skills and editing existing.

Easier said than done... thats why I need "your" help!

I can't specified what I need because I don't know myself... yet.

What I will need for sure Is to decode .inx files in tmABCD folder and probably lot of addresses for skill related functions ;)


For now I am only planing next step so any help is welcome.
Even Ideas for skills would be nice (keep them simple, nothing too laggy).


PS. There is terrible security hole in PT animation (*banging head against a brick wall*... why PT? WHY!?) so if anyone will "find it" than ...zip your mouth plz! We will not talk about it here.

PS2. I think I will have to backup and reinstall all my OSes before I start so make yourself comfortable in this thread.

[MentaL]

[SunnyZ]

Love it.

Ive been fiddling with skills a bit, but all I've really been able to do is modify monster skill animation and effect.

I wish you luck in your quest!

[zaharavn]

Okie. Good Luck to you ^^. If you have problem about it. I can help for you if i can :).

[bobsobol]

Yes, good luck on that one. I know rPT managed it... but I also know Yedang tried and failed miserably. (created more bugs in the game than it was worth) So I *know* you've got your work cut out for you on that one.

BTW... The other one they tried to implement and failed, which Sandurr (rPT / uPT) never released (AFAIK) is "gender" as a separate selection from "Tribe" and "Class". Now I would love to have a Male Priest, or a Female Mech, (without replacing the existing ones) so... maybe if you can solve this and open source it, well have a better idea how PT uses that tmabcd stuff with characters.

There is a model, skin, and partial animations for a "Female Fighter" in some old clients, and the directory structure is clearly designed for it... but it doesn't work.

Back to your .inx files, if you look at various clients, there are some .ini / .inf files from which the .inx is compiled. (like .smd from .ase) ^_^

From what I could be bothered to find out, they turn each "Key =" into a single byte, and for each Key it knows what format the Value should be. If it's an integer it's stored as a DWord, if it's a real / float then it's stored as an IEEE DWord. Strings are just stored as ZStrings. (Null Terminated C Style ANSI string)

Maybe that will help... but I can't guarantee my memory is, or my analysis was 100%.

I think I found I didn't really understand it even when it was an plain text file. But I suspected there was more than one "type" of them, and that some had been created from the frame data from an animating ASE... and I didn't understand why they did that, instead of the usual .smd + .smb combo they do with other animating ASE files. (Probably something to do with "inter-frame animation" which I only have a vague understanding of as being like "tweening" except in 3D)

[Vormav]

Thank you guys.
Right now I am testing how skills landing on "skill board" and I see some progress ;). Now I will have to create another board for new skills and connect them to new animation files (not even thinking about quest for T5 yet O.o).

Yes, good luck on that one. I know rPT managed it... but I also know Yedang tried and failed miserably. (created more bugs in the game than it was worth) So I *know* you've got your work cut out for you on that one.

Interesting there where rumors that YD is creating T5 skills?
I have seen some rPT/uPT T5 YT videos but nothing else. The created skills based on existing animations and with new effects.

BTW... The other one they tried to implement and failed, which Sandurr (rPT / uPT) never released (AFAIK) is "gender" as a separate selection from "Tribe" and "Class". Now I would love to have a Male Priest, or a Female Mech, (without replacing the existing ones) so... maybe if you can solve this and open source it, well have a better idea how PT uses that tmabcd stuff with characters.

That might not be as hard as you think (code part). I mean not additional class and tribe but male/female versions of existing classes. For example you have male Fighter and you would like to create female Fighter, you create another switch for body choice (like you have for 3 heads when you creating your character). Female body should just write on addresses where male body was.
For example when you use "/load" command you can change body.
"/load nameOfyourOtherCharacter" and you can be anyone in the game (skills will not work). Skills are not problem in female body, they will use male version skills. Biggest problem is... creating new body for every class with all armors and head bands! Sure we can use LL models but they are not "square" enough and will not give feel and look of PT 1 :/
On other hand its possible to make them more PT like but its a lot of work in modeling :/

There is a model, skin, and partial animations for a "Female Fighter" in some old clients, and the directory structure is clearly designed for it... but it doesn't work.

Its old version 60 model (this is from before 1.0.0?), current PT is using v62.
However animation of that model is usable because is just typical biped data.
If you can get body out of this old .smd file than I can make you Female Fighter ;). Remember that this model have only basic body and no armors, armor = new body. Thats why its a lot of work to add new class.

Back to your .inx files, if you look at various clients, there are some .ini / .inf files from which the .inx is compiled. (like .smd from .ase) ^_^

In development it would be perfect to work in .ini instead of encrypted .inx if PT will understand .ini file. Female fighter have example of .ini like that and this might be a good start.

From what I could be bothered to find out, they turn each "Key =" into a single byte, and for each Key it knows what format the Value should be. If it's an integer it's stored as a DWord, if it's a real / float then it's stored as an IEEE DWord. Strings are just stored as ZStrings. (Null Terminated C Style ANSI string)

Maybe that will help... but I can't guarantee my memory is, or my analysis was 100%.

IEEE DWord? Not sure how you would do that... could you try your method on char\tmABCD\M1Bip.inx (animation index, it contain info about your moves and skills, for example "*you are running 11 35" you are running from frame 11 to 35 and there is something else after that. It determinate its type I guess).

I think I found I didn't really understand it even when it was an plain text file. But I suspected there was more than one "type" of them, and that some had been created from the frame data from an animating ASE... and I didn't understand why they did that, instead of the usual .smd + .smb combo they do with other animating ASE files. (Probably something to do with "inter-frame animation" which I only have a vague understanding of as being like "tweening" except in 3D)

Its quite simple:
You have
- SMD - model with biped skeleton that can be anything if it have bones named like this... "Bip01 bla1"
- SMB - frames of animation and nothing else is inside, just move bone Bip01 LLeg to XYZ
- INX - its grouping frames into animation types, for example "*hit_with_sword_1_hand 77 95", when player is going to hit with 1 hit sword .inx file is telling where animation for hit is.
There is some more with "heads" but for now its not important.

Skills smd/smb files are similar.
Typical skill smd file don't have "will" on its own, its animated by few basic commands, game.exe can make it transparent, rotate it, move it and display it in direction you are looking at, it also controls for how long its displayed on screen. To animate skills by yourself you need bones.
You do that by adding "b_" in front of skill animation file.
You have to create some bones (anything is fine as long you going with pattern Bip01, Bip02 and so on)
What I notice is that PT does not support animation of scaling O_o

Beside that all basic animations are OK, you can even use motion capture data. I recorded my with Kinect on PC and PT liked it, its still bit "zazzy" so I recommend it as reference animation or you can fix it in motionbuilder.

Beside particle system I don't really have any problems with doing "anything" with animation. What I don't get in .lua/.part files is how to move them to X Y Z on scene, they are always over my head and I can only throw them in some direction :/
BTW is there any .lua script viewer that will let me check animation on screen instead of "in game"?

Guess thats it for now, as you can see right now only problem is writing universal code (I feel that this going to be one huge ASM file XD). PT functions are going too deep to rewrite them in pure C.

[SheenBR]

Lemme see if I get this straight, that video is one of your T5 Skills, or just a replaced animation?

[bobsobol]

Interesting there where rumors that YD is creating T5 skills?

No. No rumour. I remember it being announced (either on the web site or in the Emails I got as an early subscriber) that it would definitely be introduced to EPT along with Pay2Play.

This was one of the "bonuses" you would get for paying your subscription. (because you can get to tier 4 without subscribing.

That might not be as hard as you think (code part).

I hadn't considered making gender a "head" choice. XD

In development it would be perfect to work in .ini instead of encrypted .inx if PT will understand .ini file. Female fighter have example of .ini like that and this might be a good start.

I had started to create some ini for inx files... just like smd, if you remove the inx, PT recreates it. Then I found that not all ini are alike (possibly the ini / inf thing) and had to stop.

IEEE DWord? Not sure how you would do that...

FLD IMS

Its quite simple:
You have
- SMD - model with biped skeleton

Okay... you've lost me at this point. "An SMD mode with a what what?

Beside particle system I don't really have any problems with doing "anything" with animation.

Ah! Now the partical system I understand just fine. XD

What I don't get in .lua/.part files is how to move them to X Y Z on scene, they are always over my head and I can only throw them in some direction :/

I've not messed muc with the LUA ones. Used it much more on WoW. But the .part files are a doddle. Have you tried negative numbers? All directions are centred around a particle generator whose co-ordinates are considered 0,0,0.

BTW is there any .lua script viewer that will let me check animation on screen instead of "in game"?

Absolutely not. LUA is not written to perform graphics functions or any kind, any more than PHP, or C.

They can do so, given the correct library extensions, but none of them contain any graphical functions inherently.

How would you create a C editor which you let you visualise the code in 3D whether it was Doom or Quake or Half-Life or Tekken? XD

@ DV: I don't think it's either. But rather a "proposed" T5 skill. It's not a replacement, and it's not yet a T5 skill.

[Vormav]

No. No rumour. I remember it being announced (either on the web site or in the Emails I got as an early subscriber) that it would definitely be introduced to EPT along with Pay2Play.

Not T5 :) ...T4... before P2P we had skills up to T3 and when we went to P2P we got T4 skills.

I had started to create some ini for inx files... just like smd, if you remove the inx, PT recreates it. Then I found that not all ini are alike (possibly the ini / inf thing) and had to stop.

.inf files contain info about your model + animation files (example: TmhC05.ASE + animation in M4bip.inx) and they are already "open".
It does not recreate my INX files (and I think it can't).

FLD IMS

Oooooooooo... w8 what? Gibberish again? ;)

Okay... you've lost me at this point. "An SMD mode with a what what?

MODEL with accent on L ;) mesh etc. + bones or flesh + bones =P
and SMB is brain that telling your bones how to move, bones are connected to flesh and you have motion. INX files telling you what frames have what motion.

Ah! Now the partical system I understand just fine. XD

Good someone to count on when I get to animation part ;)

I've not messed muc with the LUA ones. Used it much more on WoW. But the .part files are a doddle. Have you tried negative numbers? All directions are centred around a particle generator whose co-ordinates are considered 0,0,0.

Lua are the ones that I would like to edit most. "InitPos(0,0,0);" is this position from X Y Z? because its not doing anything for me :/

Absolutely not. LUA is not written to perform graphics functions or any kind, any more than PHP, or C.

They can do so, given the correct library extensions, but none of them contain any graphical functions inherently.

How would you create a C editor which you let you visualise the code in 3D whether it was Doom or Quake or Half-Life or Tekken? XD

I would not compare C to LUA... if lua is doing some "visual effect", moving graphic of animation in patterns than there could be some "lua player" or representation of animation as dots etc. in dx window or something like that.
Its annoying to login and out every time you change something in script.



@ DV: I don't think it's either. But rather a "proposed" T5 skill. It's not a replacement, and it's not yet a T5 skill.

Yup its just a "hack".
I working alone here so it will take time ...A LOT OF TIME... I have some skeleton of code but for now I am concentrating on checking how everything is working and I am finding useful stuff but not what I want (connection with inx files)

[bobsobol]

Oooooooooo... w8 what? Gibberish again? ;)

I thought you spoke pretty good x86? Actually, when it comes to the 32bit variety, PT seems to perform an instruction like this:-

fild dword ptr [fpSomeAddress]

I would not compare C to LUA... if lua is doing some "visual effect", moving graphic of animation in patterns than there could be some "lua player" or representation of animation as dots etc. in dx window or something like that.
Its annoying to login and out every time you change something in script.

The thing is that Lua cannot do "some visual effect" it cannot "move graphic of animation in patterns". PT does that, and decides how to move them, and how to animate them in accordance to the returned results from the Lua script engine.

The difference between C and Lua is that there are lots of Lua interpreters, and very few compilers, where there are lots of C compilers and very few interpreters. But, if you don't even have a standard C library. You run you C program on an embedded system with no display or keyboard. Maybe an MP3 player or a home intrusion system. Now write PT or Doom in C to run on that system.

You can't. Because it doesn't have the facilities. You can write these things in C, because of the libraries which interface the hardware which these programs require. Like C, (but more so) Lua makes no assumptions about the environment in which it runs is capable of... displaying or printing simple text characters, storing information in files, let alone displaying anything in 3D.

Okay. So, in so far as it usually operates as a script, rather than a compiled program, maybe it's more like Python or Perl... except that, especially in the case of Python, they come with a very, very large library of functions available as standard.

To compare, I'm considering Lua as being like C, without a standard C library. (quite possible, and not unusable) So... just the core C language. Sequence, selection, iteration, segmentation, syntax and structure. Not even the ability to print a line of text.

I could compare it to Tcl, but could compare it to Tcl/Tk less than I could compare it to C. (too many features already built in)

You see, Lua, doesn't define anything except syntax and structure. It has no real grammar of it's own.

It's just a scripting engine. It doesn't know, or care what it's scripting.

The program you run the scripts under must provide interfaces to it's input and output, and create classes, objects and interfaces for the Lua script to manipulate.

In WoW, this is all provided by UI XML manifests. In PT, the Lua can't control the 2D UI overlay, but only the 3D rendering of the game world. (something WoW doesn't allow Lua to modify, although it can create alternate 3D views within the UI overlay for Player portraits and paper-doll inventory views)

So, what I'm saying is that you need to recreate the interfaces PT provides Lua, and couldn't rely on some generic Lua tool, since Lua doesn't support 3D graphics, text, sound, keyboards, mice, files or anything... as it comes. It's just a scripting framework. Your program provides all of that, and Lua feeds your program logic and algorithms.

It doesn't really have any understanding of what your program may do with that logic.

--- EDIT ---
All the I/O facilities native to Lua can be found here. I don't think it will help, except to explain the boundary between what (in PT Lua scripts) is not standard Lua, but a PT extension of it. (ie. almost everything)

[Vormav]

fild dword ptr [fpSomeAddress]

And now its making sense to me >=P
I still wonder what you mean by "FLD IMS"...IMS?

It's just a scripting engine.

OK got it. I was hoping for something like this:

But if PT will not display same effects than its pointless.

PS. will this work -> os.remove (filename)?
PS2. can I embed LUA in C, specifically for PT effects?

[bobsobol]

And now its making sense to me >=P
I still wonder what you mean by "FLD IMS"...IMS?

see Websters Intel FPU Instruction Set FLD = Floating point load.

IMS, IDK, IIRC it's an Acronym. XD

Spoiler:

IMS = If Memory Serves
IDK = I Don't Know (don't ask me what the opposite is, it's like OT = Off Topic, where the acronym for On Topic would be...?)
IIRC = If I Recall Correctly

OK got it.
8X- - - - - - - - - - - - - Snip - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

PS. will this work -> os.remove (filename)?

should do. I've seen some WoW scripts do some increadible things by tracking monster stats, drop rates, movements, spawn rates etc and storing them in XML files with some of those APIs. (see below as to how people use Lua)

PS2. can I embed LUA in C, specifically for PT effects?

I certainly hope so. That's exactly how it's meant to be used. It should not be used independently (as one may use Perl or Python). You link it into your program as a .lib file. (or a .a if you are on a non-MS compiler)

So, it's a statically linked library, like you might use SQLite, or Zlib. But like those it's also open source, so you could easily create a DLL version of it and use that... or you could disable native features like those I/O routines if you really took offence to them being used.

My biggest concern is that it is predominantly an Object Oriented scripting language. (as I'm sure you've noticed) so you may find it difficult to use the APIs without Objective C or C++ extensions to the basic C syntax.

It has been used in Object Pascal, Delphi etc... but more importantly, I believe there are some bindings for freeBASIC and BlitzBasic... both of which are only "partially" capable of Object Orientation. (we can create structures, and type-defs, and have a rudimentary "class" syntax, but the compiler will not tell us that we are using a method on the wrong kind of structure, yet)

There are similar bindings created to get around other "normally OOP" systems like COM+ or MDAC, but these are effectively a "wrapper" written in an OOP language which exposes procedural APIs. ^_^

[Vormav]

Bit of topic today because I am finding everything in PT but not what I am looking for ;)

Dunning skills research I found out that PT was created to support customization; we can split PT body into:
- breast plate (main body)
- shoulder guards and thigh guards (most armors have them near legs and on shoulders)
- arm braces (hands)
- boots (legs)
...and head, but that's different story so we will leave head alone for now ;)

No point in only talking about it so have a look on those SS:

Leather Armor + Wyvern Armor


Main body from Wyvern Armor


Main body from Wyvern Armor


Shoulder guards and thigh guards from Wyvern Armor


Shoulder guards and thigh guards from Wyvern Armor


Arm braces (hands) from Wyvern Armor


Arm braces (hands) from Wyvern Armor


Boots (legs) from Wyvern Armor


Boots (legs) from Wyvern Armor


Boots (legs) from Leather Armor



This is "hack" for now, but its possible to add this customization!


If I am counting correctly mix of 4 body types witch each have 20 possibilities will give me 20 x 20 x 20 x 20 = 160000 (correct me if I am wrong) armor, bracelets, gauntlets, boots combinations...? For one class! Well a bit less because some legs (I think only from lvl 1 armor) are not compatible with
some armors bodys, but that could be fixed by "exceptions".

And here the question arises, its clear for me that PT created this with thought of players uniqueness but they never release it... why? Many MMO using random colors or wide range of looks. Is it too laggy to have that many possibilities? Its actually client sided so not rally? With "clever" coding I can make it without any big array or anything that will kill CPU.

Problem with this project is that I would have to do a lot of manual work besides that I see only bright sides, I already know where to alert code that I am changing items/armors and code itself would be very universal/portable.

Yet I still have questions, how big model files are in PT2 and for example WoW? If I change size of PT models from ~200KB to-> 3~4MB will this affect lag/performance?

I know I am running away from my current project but creating new skills and balance is a lot of work for one person.

Give me your thoughts, what you think about splitting your look into 4 (5 with heads :)).
For example when you go to BC you will able to tell people builds from they look and when mechs will tell you that they are tanking naked (no items) you will be able to tell if thats true or not :) Its also cool to create skills using "this", example: skill that make you faster but take away your defense will force you into light armor; main body from lvl 1 armor, rest from you current armor -> +2 speed for 15 sec -500 def (just example).


So what YOU think about it?

[SunnyZ]

That's actually really cool. I had an idea like this ages ago.

Seeing how the items come in level sets, the armour would be the torso model, then you can add on your other items. ie 80d boots would load up the boots/leg model from 80d armor, 102 gloves would load the glove model from 102 armor.

So if you had full 102 set, it would look exactly like the normal 102 armor we have now. Very nice, very customisable :)

[bobsobol]

I think the idea of seeing which Boots, Gloves, Bracers, Armour etc. each player is actually wearing is an excellent idea.

It's something which has been in every graphical RPG I've played post Diablo II, and I've always missed it in PT.

I didn't think it was possible unless you started using the Laxe Lore client, but if you think it can be done that would be great. It would also make it a lot easier to import Laxe Lore armour (which has a similar look and feel to PT armour, but is already broken down into sub-sections) into PT.

I'm clearly not understanding something you are saying, because I would think that each segment of armour would be smaller than the whole set model. (less points to each mesh) the combined mesh shouldn't take DirectX any longer to render, and all armour for all classes is loaded into every client before the player selects a character.

In the "in memory file cache" I've mentioned before, they are treated as "exceptions" when considering what to remove from the cache when it's full... because you are likely to visit towns often and see people of every class, and at every rank and armour level.

Split... there will be more entries in this "reserve" cache. But you get 8 of those every time you add another 10 levels and new armour set... or 2 for every "Premium" armour set to the game.

Anyone else notice the large number of really cool looking premium armours in the Arario client these days? (keep turning the pages at the bottom) ^_^

[Vormav]

It would also make it a lot easier to import Laxe Lore armour (which has a similar look and feel to PT armour, but is already broken down into sub-sections) into PT.

That might be a bit hard, LL models have much more polygons and are cut in wrong place; e.g. mechanic have boots from feet to knee and knight have boots like "thigh highs", so I can't use mech boots on knight and vice versa; but you can connect LL boots to existing PT leg and have new boots (in PT is leg). However this will allow you to create only boots or gloves and not necessarily whole armor.

I'm clearly not understanding something you are saying, because I would think that each segment of armour would be smaller than the whole set model. (less points to each mesh) the combined mesh shouldn't take DirectX any longer to render, and all armour for all classes is loaded into every client before the player selects a character.

Armour parts are not smaller or larger they are one big model split into parts. Did you confuse them with items dropped on floor?

In the "in memory file cache" I've mentioned before, they are treated as "exceptions" when considering what to remove from the cache when it's full... because you are likely to visit towns often and see people of every class, and at every rank and armour level.

Yes but you sending your look as ini file that have your "model parts" inside. So players only receive: "hay he look like A001.ini".

Split... there will be more entries in this "reserve" cache. But you get 8 of those every time you add another 10 levels and new armour set... or 2 for every "Premium" armour set to the game.

Another cool feature in PT that was "left alone" is that PT can use 3 different models for close, middle and far range, but they did it only to main body and never used that again. Zoom in and out from mech without armor and see a small differences.

Anyone else notice the large number of really cool looking premium armours in the Arario client these days? (keep turning the pages at the bottom) ^_^

Yeah I hope they are split in same places as typical armour :)

[bobsobol]

Another cool feature in PT that was "left alone" is that PT can use 3 different models for close, middle and far range, but they did it only to main body and never used that again. Zoom in and out from mech without armor and see a small differences.

I've noticed that if I turn down the graphics detail there is a visible line where textures change from the full resolution down to lower ones, and other players distort as they cross that line. (essentially a bad implementation of mip-maps) And provided I don't turn it down, I can delete all of that lower detail stuff all-together, and it makes no difference to the game at all. XD

[Vormav]

Only quick update today, I tested everything I need for customization and I am very optimistic.
I started from Mechanic ( PT see him as player A)



What I like about mech is that nearly everything fits together, rest can be fixed later (thats really easy now, even adding new parts to your armour is easy now)


than in order Fighter (B), Pikeman (C), Archer (D) and than morions.
Probably when I finish Mechanic I will release some beta or demo so anyone can test it and tell me if anything is wrong (performance interest me the most).


I still need to decide few things:

- I need standard for naming this insane amount of customization.
I was thinking about this:
Armor | Gauntlets | Boots | Armlets
DA105DG110DB109OA208
this will give you your look.
Those are numbers for items, what you think guys?
Might be a bit confusing for peoples that don't know how items DB look like so I'm open to suggestions.

- I will probably not include "super deformed" versions of armors, official server stopped somewhere before doom armor.

- I will probably not include "special" armors, those don't have any gauntlets, boots or armlets... not because its impossible but because you will never be able to compete full special armor (cash shop e.g. Thales Armor ). But it does not mean it will not be customizable, when item DB will be more "open" for adding items I can create (anyone will be able) for example Thales Boots.
So for now I am sticking with "official" item list (without cash shop), BTW I am using this site EPT1.net for reference, very useful and It have same info as on kPT site but in English >=P

- I am not sure if I should add this armor:



its DA122, not listed on site and I don't have .smd files!
Anyone could upload me this item? For all classes:
Fighter, Mechanic, Pikeman, Archer, Knight, Atalanta.

Morions (prs, mage) have any robe like this?

- I need server.exe that have items coded up to 105 items set (all those items).
Anyone can upload? It don't have to be anything special, all I need is all items in DB (rings, amulets or sheltones are not important) and it need to work :)

I guess thats all for now. So... what do you guys think?

[Pews]

Good luck. :D

[Vormav]

I don't want to off topic here too much so I will leave this alone ...till some help shows up. I am working on this right now -> MAXimum customizations [WIP]