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yeah i didnt actually plan for this to be a release thread, more just a little bit of guidance for me starting 3d modelling. I didnt think anyone would actually like my models :S but yeah, hey, since it has now become a release thread. Do as you wish Sheen :)
Ill make it into a 1h now and upload.
http://www.reaverpt.eu/version/3dmeshes/sword1hb.zip
It's certainly become a "development" thread, which contains some releases. I'd be torn, because I don't want it to stop developing ^_^ but I also keep adding to my releases and guides... so that's fine.
I'll move it now, as I'm on. Good call Sheen. ^_^
Coming from the Gunz section, I do not know a whole hell of a lot about the engine Priston runs on, but seeing the age of the game I would think you guys should be watching your poly count a little bit more.
@OP
First of all BMP is kinda a bad choice for 3D design. It has no compression, does not support alpha channels, and still has to be converted by the CPU before reaching the GPU. It is much better to use DDS since it doesn't even touch the RAM/ CPU (goes straight to the video card) and has some lossless compression methods that are really nice (DXT1 DXT3 DXT5 are the ones I use most of the time).
Also, size matters when talking about about textures. when an item is loaded into the video card the height and width must follow the basic 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, etc structure as to not create any wasted space. I see that you have your texture in a 400x800 structure, but that will actually end up creating an texture like THIS once it is actually loaded, simply wasting a width of 224 and a height of 112 (a total of 204,288 wasted pixels!).
Lastly, that handle does not need to be that rounded. Most engines support the use of smoothing groups (see short guide HERE if you want to try it out), which instead of adding polys, allow for light to be reflected in a manner that makes it appear smooth. This will save you a lot of memory in the end, and seeing that your engine was created in '04, low polly is the way to go.
Remember textures are your friend! Use them instead of creating useless polygons.
Sorry if I rained on your parade, I was just trying to offer a helping hand.
errr pt doesnt touch your gpu anyway. it is solely run from cpu processing.
I do appreciate the input but as i say, i am mainly making these 3dmodels for fun and practice as they are my first models made. PT uses BMP files solely and sometimes tga files for its skins. I dont know if the engine would support other formats.
Also, if in pt you create a straight edge with a false appearance of rounded, you will get straight. Its a very old engine, and i dont think im wrong in saying direct3d3? Built to run on early rage cards :P
Anything visual goes through a GPU of some sort, hence the need of a video card. The CPU will run the game while the GPU renders everything... there is literally no way that game can run without a GPU.Quote:
Originally Posted by gzuz
As for everything else, PT uses Unreal Engine II for its graphics engine, so I have no doubt DDS will work fine. If you are wondering why I even mentioned it, the size of your BMP file is 937kb, while a DDS file rendering the same quality of texture is 64kb, almost 15x smaller. If one were to create a game using purely BMP files, it wouldn't run quicker at all and the client side would be ginormous, that is why DDS is picked most of the time in this field of design. As for the "rounded appearance" I never said to create a straight line, but simply create a curve with less detail... the cylinders you are using on that first sword are octagonal, taking up almost 400 faces just in the handle, which is unnecessary. You could easily use a heptagonal structure of six sides, using half the amount of loops and create a handle which looked almost identical using 150 faces or less. After that apply a smoothing group and it looks as good, if not better, than what you currently have.
If I had known when I wrote the last message that Priston ran on UE II, I wouldn't have questioned myself as much with the answers I gave you. Unreal can easily handle Smoothing Groups along with things like Bump Maps and such, which means you really don't need to put all that much detail in your actual mesh. Focus more on the rough shape of the weapon rather than the actual image you want to portray to the player.
*THIS* is a rough armor set I left unfinished from about a month ago. This is what I mean by focusing on the rough shape rather than the details. Not only was I able to get it basically how I wanted it, in the end it took less than 800 faces total. All of the small things can either be added/ removed by texture later on in the item creation process.
From my experience you should spend 4x longer on the texture than on the model itself.
@Squiddy
Thanks for tips, they are useful in general but; there is always but; PT 1 is not UE 2 game, that would be physically impossible, unless they changed engine later, PT 2 yes it is UE 2 game, however PT 1 came out in 2001 and probably was in production for ~2 years... So 1999? Maybe even 1998 for closed beta. It "is" UE 1 game but it's nothing like it... model format is rewritten to custom format. It still uses .ASE files that are UE compatible but they need to be converted to .smb + .smd format by game itself. A lot of custom patches when into PT 1 engine when they where making this game. It does not support .dds and I doubt it can be easily added, It also does not support shadows.
PT can handle 3D geometry very nice, 2D parts are the problem... especially on anything newer than win xp.
Yes PT does support smooth modifier (*MESH_SMOOTHING <group number>) and its widely used by PT 1. But anything beyond .ASE format is impossible for PT, such as bump maps.
But to use smoothing you need model that is made out of quads or else you will get mix of sharp edges, smooth parts and glitchy places. Designing something for game is different than designing something for "render" only.
And here is where I disagree with you, I thin it's more important to work 4x more on model itself than on texture. You can always fix texture later, change format, fix size etc. Once you apply texture to broken model and fix model later than you have to start texturing all over again.
Hmph, well it really is too bad that the engine doesn't support more. RealSpace 2, in which was made for Gunz, has very low mobility too, seeing that we have no Bump Mapping nor much shading at all either. Serves me right for jumping sections I guess ;D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vormav
I will still say most of my information is solid for any game post 2002 though, which if this guy is just "modeling for practice" he should still know the format in which graphic artist today do things. I personally only do game design myself, but I make sure to keep up with techniques and information from other fields of graphic art as well if you understand what I mean (which is also the reason I have been looking at other games' sections lately as well). If he got nothing out of what I told him, fine, but at least I tried eh? Beats learning it the painstaking way of being laughed at by your peers later on once you are actually in a project of some sort, which is how I personally learned.
Anyways, thanks for clearing all that up, definitely was some useful information. I do still disagree with you on the texture to modeling bit though ;D. I have seen a lot of artist with good geometry, but horrible painting, and it just ruins the mesh once it is ingame.
I am not a 3d modeler by any standard, i am solely a programmer. I just thought it would be fun to mess around with 3dsmax and show the community some of the stuff i have done. Never really planning for it to go anywhere. I dont really have any drive or ambition to go too much further with 3dmodeling as it was only something for me to do so i had more items to add into the game via ollydbg. I do appreciate the advice, but its not my area, nor is it something i think ill be continuing too much further into.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiddy
I think that if the person (modeler) have a very very clear idea of what he will be making (or is making..) the modeling part is faster, but sometimes the guy wants to make a sword or ax, for an example, but, initially, he do not know anything else of what will become of that object.. then the modeling would take more time.. If the modeler has some acquaintance with what he would be modeling (like, a veterinarian modeling a dog) the modeling part is also faster i believe..
It is funny, but i suppose that perhaps modelers can really spend more time texturing than modeling, but i believe that this is because of modelers tend to have more experience on modeling (xd..) rather than on 2d-stuff. Those dudes that make forum-signs probably could make a better texture than a very good modeler, since the 2d-guy is more comfortable with 2d-stuff (xd)..
And the texture can ruin and save indeed, the texture is for a model what a woman is for a man, it can fix the bad and also ruin the good..
But i think that the model deserves more attention than the texture, i think that a very good model, even if complex, is easier to texture than a not-so-good model.. :)