Legality of Fiesta Online Private Server

[Senbosakura]

So I've been doing a lot of research into this topic, to which my results have remained largely inconclusive for a number of reasons.

• Fiesta Online files have been uploaded and are available to the public. I'm no expert on development but, from what I can tell these files were leaked and reversed engineered (something that is supposedly legal).
• The people running these servers are doing so using a donation system - which, operate using a micro-transaction model (virtual goods/currency) in exchange for items. Due to the donation system in place, even if you do take some money for yourself (reimbursement for expenses paid/work involved with running the server) - you are not infringing anyone's copyright as you have no intention of profiting off of their work. At least, to my understanding you are not.
• Fiesta is a free-to-play game whose software is available free to download. There is no subscription cost associated with Fiesta. As a result, there is no retail value to these files as they are not available for purchase, though I could be wrong.

The issue arises when using donations as a means of paying yourself. Which means you are not using money gained through donations for the server or its improvements, rather to fill your own pockets. This can lead to a number of problems such as donation fraud and tax evasion. Aside from this, civil copyright infringement seems to apply. However, this may be circumvented if you give the owners credit for their material. Then again, the creators of Fiesta vs. its publishers are not one in the same. I'm still unsure, but the whole private server legality issue seems to be one big grey area. What are your thoughts on this?


*Disclaimer*
I am in no way trying to promote or justify illegal private servers who aim is to willfully infringe and steal revenue from their copyright holders. What I am trying to discern is the legality of running a private server for the purposes of learning coding languages/game administration.

[MentaL]

[DarkAngelPS]

Oh god this guy is going to go through hell here.

[Senbosakura]

For simply asking for input? I'm curious about the legality of running a Fiesta private server as I cannot get a clear cut answer. Judging by your name, you are affiliated/own a private server. Wouldn't you rather know for sure if what you're doing/did or planning to do is legal? Or do you simply not care? There have been big lawsuits against other private server owners, however they have ran subscription based servers. The exception being Maple Story Servers which operated despite receiving a cease and desist letters.

[Kalachu]

Any server running fiesta and is running the official server software leaked/hacked from differnt types of publishers. and because of that server software for fiesta that is used by anyone other than the publishers or developers is stolen software, therefore it is illegal. Please correct me, if I am wrong.

also as this forum has mostly got stolen files for all types of games i dont think much people care if its illegal or not....

[Senbosakura]

Illegal in the sense that you are breaching the original game's ToS. However, if you have never played the game/agreed with their ToS - technically speaking your server (if it is not for profit) should fall under fair-use. This should also apply if you never tampered with their files but obtained them from a third party.

Fair-use criteria:
"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use"air use."

I could be wrong in this regard however, this is just speculation.

*Disclaimer*
I am in no way trying to promote or justify illegal private servers who aim is to willfully infringe and steal revenue from their copyright holders. What I am trying to discern is the legality of running a private server for the purposes of learning coding languages/game administration.

[hamisgood87]

It's illegal. Do I have to say more?

[Cyndaquil]

Ok, lets just get this straight. Private Servers are ILLEGAL


You will not ever get a legal private server. You can try to buy a license from OOS, but that wouldn't exactly make you a private server anymore. So regardless of any copyright laws, you cannot make a legal private server.

Also country laws apply to that country only, hence why US can't take down things in Germany without filing a court order.

[Kreeate]

If you are using an "Emulator" for running server files, you should be okay.
Emulators are not illegal. When you tamper with the "client" you are dealing in illegal doings.

All said and done... It's a developer's world. Not everyone is trying to profit from private servers.
Some people simply use it all to learn and develop. The people who are trying to make money from it are targeted.
Any game company will attempt to annihilate any and all competition to the full extent of the law. It's only natural.

[Myth]

Illegal in the sense that you are breaching the original game's ToS. However, if you have never played the game/agreed with their ToS - technically speaking your server (if it is not for profit) should fall under fair-use. This should also apply if you never tampered with their files but obtained them from a third party.

Fair-use criteria:
"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use"air use."

I could be wrong in this regard however, this is just speculation.

*Disclaimer*
I am in no way trying to promote or justify illegal private servers who aim is to willfully infringe and steal revenue from their copyright holders. What I am trying to discern is the legality of running a private server for the purposes of learning coding languages/game administration.

It has nothing to do with Terms of Service, but everything to do with the copyright, it also depends on how far the publisher/developer want to go when they knock on your door, they could target your payment portals and be done, or they can target everything you have and try shutting you down, just depends on how big you are of a threat to them and the money they're willing to invest to take you down, remember, this costs dollars to them as they need a legal team to go through all the rigmarole.

There is also no coding in private servers, for years I've seen people talk about how they "program the game", there's fucking nothing to do with programming to maintain a server, the only programming occurs with the tools to manage the server, which can also be obtained from the client, so in reality, there's no need for a server to develop with, all you're doing is changing parameters, THIS IS NOT PROGRAMMING IN ANY WAY/SHAPE OR FORM.

If you setup a private server locally somewhere to reverse engineer packets/database procedures etc, that's a different story, but even this step doesn't require a public server and is just as illegal, so any clown out there with a private server saying it's for "development" purposes is just some jackoff not willing to be liable for the shitty service they provide, because they can then just re-state that the server was for development purposes only (which ain't true, anybody who has a public server with donations is in it to earn some bucks).

Any server running fiesta (other than Ignis) and is running the official server software leaked/hacked from different types of publishers. and because of that server software for fiesta that is used by anyone other than the publishers or developers is stolen software, therefore it is illegal. Please correct me, if I am wrong.

also as this forum has mostly got stolen files for all types of games i dont think much people care if its illegal or not....

EmulatorsRUs.

I gave too many fucks with this post.

[Dec]

It has nothing to do with Terms of Service, but everything to do with the copyright, it also depends on how far the publisher/developer want to go when they knock on your door, they could target your payment portals and be done, or they can target everything you have and try shutting you down, just depends on how big you are of a threat to them and the money they're willing to invest to take you down, remember, this costs dollars to them as they need a legal team to go through all the rigmarole.

There is also no coding in private servers, for years I've seen people talk about how they "program the game", there's fucking nothing to do with programming to maintain a server, the only programming occurs with the tools to manage the server, which can also be obtained from the client, so in reality, there's no need for a server to develop with, all you're doing is changing parameters, THIS IS NOT PROGRAMMING IN ANY WAY/SHAPE OR FORM.

If you setup a private server locally somewhere to reverse engineer packets/database procedures etc, that's a different story, but even this step doesn't require a public server and is just as illegal, so any clown out there with a private server saying it's for "development" purposes is just some jackoff not willing to be liable for the shitty service they provide, because they can then just re-state that the server was for development purposes only (which ain't true, anybody who has a public server with donations is in it to earn some bucks).



EmulatorsRUs.

I gave too many fucks with this post.

But dude, copy pasting an existing item and changing 2-3 values totally makes me a 1337 fiesta [Dev] ufeelme?

[Delius]

Lol, oh the [Dev] tag. I love it.

I just see running a fiesta private server illegal, no matter the steps you take to stop it.

But due to the nature of the game nowdays, no one cares. The main game itself is heading off to the "Dead" lane.

[DarkAngelPS]

I could careless about the money. It is litterally saved up to keep server alive and still most payment comes out my own pocket with my own real job. As i tell the players "It is their choice to donate or not. Either way i plan to keep the server up regardless of who or where the money comes from to afford it" and i will always stick to that.

[Dec]

The only real security you have is having a completely unmodified client connecting to an emulator, as this is completely legal. So this means literally not even touching the client at all.

You still have to abide to a subset of rules though, such as making a profit off of this would most likely still be considered in the grey area's of the copyright laws as it is still considered their product you are profiting off.

[Senbosakura]

Thanks guys! I honestly was not sure of the legality of these files, but I have determined that using them is in fact illegal.

I find it funny whenever people try to justify what they're doing is legal. Here on Ragezone, everyone's a lawyer.

I was not trying to justify anything, rather, I was trying to discern the legality of using these files. See I'm not a developer or as someone else put it in this fourm, someone who changes paramaters - hence, I do not know if these files constitute an emulator or, I guess modified files. I got my answer though, and I'm choosing to stay away.

Once again, thank you everyone for your input

[LordDemonMan]

Great. Now to prevent further drama - closing time.