Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Siles
I can understand your anger towards me due to your server, and great job holding back your personal issues with me and revealing them to the entire section.. seeing as I rarely make comments on other's suggestions; it was all in good fun. Regardless, encouraging an idea that's failed once.. led by someone who's not nearly as capable as the one who led it the last time?
I don't care about that, not at all, I have no personal issues with you at all, besides, you are the one who blocked me on messenger not me, so who has personal issues now? I think you are not encouraging people with this attitude. You want this section to live, so what if it is a stranger, if you want something you have to do all you can to achieve it and you are not doing that.
Jezus came as a complete stranger on earth and he did great things. He got himself in the best selling book ever. If you want this section to live you have to encourage everyone to do what they can and what they want to do for this section. What you are doing now is killing every action that is being taken. It is like you want the section to be run by a few people with knowledge and you are just piggybacking.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Langstra
I don't care about that, not at all, I have no personal issues with you at all, besides, you are the one who blocked me on messenger not me, so who has personal issues now? I think you are not encouraging people with this attitude. You want this section to live, so what if it is a stranger, if you want something you have to do all you can to achieve it and you are not doing that.
Jezus came as a complete stranger on earth and he did great things. He got himself in the best selling book ever. If you want this section to live you have to encourage everyone to do what they can and what they want to do for this section. What you are doing now is killing every action that is being taken. It is like you want the section to be run by a few people with knowledge and you are just piggybacking.
Okay Langstra.
OT: I will support this idea. If you create the group, I will be in it to give my feedback and advice. I'll attempt to recruit some additional users as well.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Siles
Okay Langstra.
OT: I will support this idea. If you create the group, I will be in it to give my feedback and advice. I'll attempt to recruit some additional users as well.
Cool, thanks, I really appreciate that. Though I will not start the group, I am not a C++ guru neither do I have a lot of knowledge of the flyff source. I am a webdeveloper and if I had the time I'd make up some scripts for the community, but I am occupied by my study at the moment.
Maybe when I have time in a few weeks that I can make up something for the community. However, if there are people with questions concerning webdevelopment, then I am willing to answer them.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
@Siles: I'm not even going to try to lead. I'm just going to give the community it own home.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CrescentSaga
@Siles: I'm not even going to try to lead. I'm just going to give the community it own home.
We have a home. It's just the fact that nobody uses it anymore.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Siles
We have a home. It's just the fact that nobody uses it anymore.
You remind me of Worf, acting like Mr. Pessimist. What happened to your optimism? Are you the only person that's allowed to give suggestions to the community?
CrescentSaga obviously is trying to be a positive influence by trying to motivate devs and other groups to form. So what if it never even happens? So what if it fails in the first year? Month? Week? At least people seem to be trying, while you're just trying to tear it all down just because it isn't one of your ignored discussion threads or your "awesome" server guides (which I expressed my opinion on. hint: they're retarded)
The best thing you could do is just stop posting to this thread, and then maybe something will grow from it that could actually be useful.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cuvvvie
You remind me of Worf, acting like Mr. Pessimist. What happened to your optimism? Are you the only person that's allowed to give suggestions to the community?
CrescentSaga obviously is trying to be a positive influence by trying to motivate devs and other groups to form. So what if it never even happens? So what if it fails in the first year? Month? Week? At least people seem to be trying, while you're just trying to tear it all down just because it isn't one of your ignored discussion threads or your "awesome" server guides (which I expressed my opinion on. hint: they're retarded)
The best thing you could do is just stop posting to this thread, and then maybe something will grow from it that could actually be useful.
He's right though, at least about that the dev community already has a "home". Whether people use it or not is debatable, but I hardly see how making another site will help anything.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mootie
He's right though, at least about that the dev community already has a "home". Whether people use it or not is debatable, but I hardly see how making another site will help anything.
An disregarded sub-forum with nothing but two dead stickies doesn't seem homely at all. I'm not sure why all the posts there were deleted, maybe it was because there was literally no developing going on, but maybe something external from RZ would be more inviting than what's already here.
And my post wasn't directed only at that post, but the other 3 posts before it. They were all negative. It doesn't matter whether you care about amateur development at all, something effort is better than none.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
You remind me of Worf? That's a bit extreme. I was just vocalizing my thoughts on this particular idea. I don't see how my opinion wraps in with something not going through. I don't control anyone. If you want to start a damn developers group, then just do it. I simply vocalized the fact that it failed the last time when we had a significantly larger developing community, and I don't know how it would work any better this time around.
I don't get how I was being pessimistic. I was being realistic, at most.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
All of the posts in this thread have just about as pointless as the post I am making now.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ObjectOriented
All of the posts in this thread have just about as pointless as the post I am making now.
The ones prior to Siles' first post were totes fine. I have no idea if CrescentSaga is still considering his offer but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are second thoughts being had. This opposition to progress is astonishing.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CrescentSaga
Hello,
I've just visited this part of forum today, and read some stuff about it...
Honestly, is there's any developer still active?
It seems that there are so many release...
If there's any active developers for flyff part, please do submit a reply and maybe, just maybe if we all can work together, flyff would be a solid development team.
Maybe it can be like ragnarok one day, which is a very solid development teams...
I do hope we can work together, if any of the developers wanted to...
Unlike Ragnarok, the official source is leaked, and the official server barely updates anymore. New versions and emulator development keep a private server development community going. However, something I noticed that doesn't really exist in other communities often, is that the past developers of this scene are extremely lazy and make a lot of false promises. I've seen countless posts by people like FrostElite, Glaphanking, Dell Honne, etc. who promise us this amazing, revolutionary emulator. We get hyped and ready, then they vanish and ditch the project, only to make anther one later and ditch it again (although Dell Honne only made his to get mod.)
All of the old developers were a tad bit immature, as they rage quit when the source was leaked, as if that was a bad thing. Source might not be good for private server competition, but it's a huge head start for the development community. The Flyff community has an infinite amount of possibilities, unfortunately not many people care about Flyff anymore, since the official updates contributed to killing off what was left of Flyff's integrity. Most people have moved on to other games that are still being developed and updated actively by officials, or those that rely on emulators due to a lack of source. A lot of facts contribute to the lack of developers nowadays. The only developers left to this day are scarce, or are active on other forums and don't care about emulators or building up on the source.
Every release nowdays is a re-pack of a re-pack of a re-pack of stolen source code or a half-assed website layout done in 10 minutes. I hear a lot of people complaining about the lack of development and activity, yet I see nobody doing anything to change that. If you want change, be the change this community needs, and don't blame anybody else but yourself. In the end, it's all of our faults that the community is like this, including mine. I have Mootie's skill set in every other non-coding field of Flyff, but I don't contribute for the same reason, which I probably should after making this post. This community wants to work together and save this section, yet all they do is argue, complain, flame each other, get infractions and rage some more. That isn't change, that's being stubborn to change. Don't find a scapegoat for this community. Be that one member that changes this community by finally making that development thread everybody has been waiting for, a new, huge, original project that will not only blow peoples minds, but will actually be completed.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Adler
All of the old developers were a tad bit immature, as they rage quit when the source was leaked, as if that was a bad thing. Source might not be good for private server competition, but it's a huge head start for the development community. The Flyff community has an infinite amount of possibilities, unfortunately not many people care about Flyff anymore, since the official updates contributed to killing off what was left of Flyff's integrity. Most people have moved on to other games that are still being developed and updated actively by officials, or those that rely on emulators due to a lack of source. A lot of facts contribute to the lack of developers nowadays. The only developers left to this day are scarce, or are active on other forums and don't care about emulators or building up on the source.
True dat.
Hard thing is to make people come back.
Advertising for a private server while the officials are still online is pretty hard.
Yet the German part of the scene is completely retarded, which kept telling you that you have too many systems and features, no matter if you need to use them or not in game.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Allow me to further explain my replies, as my point wasn't made in the light that I wanted it to be when I made them. Of course, to anyone that I offended with these replies, my most sympathetic apologies. I do what I can for the section; of course, but I give my input when I can, to any and all suggestions given to the section. I'm not the voice of reckoning, I don't have any control above the average here in the section. I just give people a different perspective on things.. but here, allow me to further explain my replies in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Siles
We have a home. It's just the fact that nobody uses it anymore.
RaGEZoNE is one of the fore-front homes for FlyFF Development. We've been one of the strongest boards since the very first emulators were made, of course; ePVP and such have also played active roles.. but RaGEZoNE has always been extremely well established to handle and create new projects, development groups, sources, systems; anything that FlyFF utilizes to specialize the game. This is our home, this section, is our home. I don't see the point, nor objective, in changing the location of "our home". If anything, that's a power struggle. Obviously the creator of the new "home", would have a sudden surge of power over FlyFF development, and in turn; it's a strong liklihood that the entire operation would fail. When I say that "nobody uses it anymore", I mean that the forum is degenerating. We're losing motivation to continue developing, and eventually the section will die. I do not believe migrating this home would do anything but speed the process of our demise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Siles
Mootie set a developer's group up a while back, and it was filled with newer users all asking stupid questions.. and not as much debate and discussion that we would have liked to see. That was back when the developing community actually had a chance, too.
http://forum.ragezone.com/f456/flyff...-group-859202/ this is Mootie's original post concerning the creation of a "development group" that any promenient or learning developers were able to join to discuss the creation of new ideas and general discussion about the game. As you can see, the group flourished nicely, with the amount of active developers and strength in numbers, the group worked for a little while, but as the saying goes.. "all good things must come to an end."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Siles
I don't think you understand some of the brilliant ideas we've established to revive our dying section, and few to none have even left a mark on the population. You can try this, and if it succeeds, I'd give you all the respect you wish.. but you will try, and you will fail.
If someone such as Mootie, or Dell Honne, or Cuvvie, or anyone that was actually familiar with the development made in this section and the people of this section had posted this thread? I wouldn't have ever even mentioned the possibility of failure. I simply say that failure is much more likely from someone who has no experience in this section of development, doesn't really know anyone, and I doubt has much knowledge of the source. We need an extremely good organization system if we wish this type of thing to succeed. I didn't mean it in terms of offense when it comes to my ending remarks, simply a realistic approach to this type of idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Siles
First of all, this has been tried and failed. I don't see in the point in wasting time and effort on something that didn't work in the past. It's like the United States trying to use the trickle-down economy to get out of this nearing depression again, when it failed in the past, twice. Regardless, encouraging an idea that's failed once.. led by someone who's not nearly as capable as the one who led it the last time?
Why don't you put the pieces together? We had mootie leading the show, and a prominent developing section, and it failed. We now have some random kid with ten posts leading the show, and few to none capable developers.. yet you expect it to succeed? Nice try, clever play. But you're doing it wrong.
Why in the entire world, would we resort to attempting a previously failed idea? If we're going to get the entire developing community into something, why do an idea that has been attempted, and failed.. that's where this reply comes from. Why would we keep putting in precious moments of our time, if this suggestion didn't work with over 3x the liklihood of success the first time it was played out? I'm sorry, but I just don't think supporting this type of suggestion is the best thing for our section. Notice that I said I don't think, not we don't think. I'm a single person, with a single opinion. You can go ahead and create this group, and I will join and give my two cents and join in on the discussion at all times. My opinion is that we don't use this particular method. We need to explore the source more, especially to be able to understand how to create and establish newer, better systems; implement better models, create better patchers, modify more things in-game.
As Adler said, we are running out of inspiration. Gala rarely does anything in terms of updating, and FlyFF Gold was a huge debunk to the inspirational process. We need inspiration, and imagination to continue building our servers towards the impossible. Creating already established groups, or trying to bring back old projects; just won't cut it anymore. If anything, we need to inspire people to release more. More creative discussion. More map releases, world releases, model releases, system releases.. but these releases need to be partial, so that the section can start to have to actually develop to implement these releases into their servers.
We need creativity, and migrating our home.. isn't my ideal solution. Sorry for any offensive replies I've made in this thread.
Re: FlyFF Developer Groups
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Siles
Why in the entire world, would we resort to attempting a previously failed idea? If we're going to get the entire developing community into something, why do an idea that has been attempted, and failed.. that's where this reply comes from. Why would we keep putting in precious moments of our time, if this suggestion didn't work with over 3x the liklihood of success the first time it was played out?
Although you explained your other points fine, I think the main thing I still don't understand is where you get the ideology of "Why in the entire world, would we resort to attempting a previously failed idea?" because I feel like it's the opposite.
You're using past examples (the mootie one in particular) to dictate the outcome of future attempts. Imagine what things would have been like if people gave up on things they first time they were attempted because they considered one failure of proof as impossibility. Although this example is completely unrelated to this silly game, do you think millions of inventions would have still been made if they failed on their first test, and the inventor would just be like, "Oh, I messed up so no one else should ever try" and move on? No way in hell.
I want to stress that I understand what you mean. Far more capable people have tried and failed, but "why in the entire world" would you bash someone else that want's to give it a shot? If you think it's dumb then that's fine. Voice your reasoning and suggest advice that would enhance the chances of success. Simply saying "oooh mootie failed at it so you will too so don't even try" doesn't solve anything or help anyone.
