Here is your chance to be heard

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Originally Posted by Dell

You could do something like Happy Hearts.

When boss dies = have CW drop something like Gears OR you could code in like a point system so then when the boss dies people gain points (just like exp)

You can then have a shop that uses the Gears to buy items, maybe CW items who knows.

For an endless dungeon you could do something like a survival battle dungeon.

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not a bad idea imo, simple too

also @ GlaphanKing, how right you are, it may seam hard to those who haven't tried but it's a fairly basic thing to do.

Ehrgeiz, Azure Dreams, Dark Cloud 1 & 2 all had random dungeon generation. Obviously there were more but thats a general off the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by GlaphanKing

Ehrgeiz, Azure Dreams, Dark Cloud 1 & 2 all had random dungeon generation. Obviously there were more but thats a general off the top of my head.

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Offtopic: Dark Cloud 1 & 2 are awesome =P

Ontopic: The dungeons in those 2 games weren't entirely random though.. If you've played them as much as I have, with a decent photographic memory, you'd eventually see repetition in the dungeon design. I think they had a large number of pre-generated maps which were simply randomized on entering. Speaking of which, that's another idea which is even simpler to implement.

If you take the game Azure Dreams. Its sort of like a pokemon type game. There is a town and the tower that goes from 1-50. I think the layouts were pregenerated and either flipped, rotated or pieced together. The only exceptions are quests where you have to find a specific item on a specific floor. the layout was always the same but the item was in a different location almost everytime. That and every 10 levels or so would have a floor reserved for cutscenes and the final boss.

Thinking more about cutscenes for a moment. For those of you who have played WoW WOTLK, wouldn't it be great to have an instance similar to the battle with the Lich King at the Ice Citadel?

For those that don't know (and I'm paraphrasing), you go in, a cutscene happens and you see the LK fighting one of your leaders. You whip his ass enough and he starts running through the halls trying to throw magic wall in your way. You keep running around beating on him til he is finally dead.

Something like that can be scripted if given some thought. Its similar to how they created the AI for CW. Almost at death it would go into rage mode or attack depending on where you were in relation to him (or it).

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Originally Posted by Reimniess

I wasn't referring to a visible one, I more meant subsections of the lnd that can be replaced systematically. which is for the opposite reason than making it flat.

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Manually created map > Randomly generated map

Flyff isn't Minecraft you know.

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Originally Posted by Adler

Manually created map > Randomly generated map

Flyff isn't Minecraft you know.

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I agree, which is where the idea I mentioned comes in.

Manually create a lot of maps, and randomize which one comes up when you enter.
or even just 1 huge map, with many different mazes, and randomize the starting point on the map from a list of several predefined start areas. Of course you have to block access to the individual mazes, but the boss can be made only once and the end of each maze teleports you to the same spot.

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Originally Posted by ShadowDragon42

I agree, which is where the idea I mentioned comes in.

Manually create a lot of maps, and randomize which one comes up when you enter.
or even just 1 huge map, with many different mazes, and randomize the starting point on the map from a list of several predefined start areas. Of course you have to block access to the individual mazes, but the boss can be made only once and the end of each maze teleports you to the same spot.

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It's very easy to make a lot of high quality mazes and dungeons instead of randomly generating them. They come out looking a lot more natural and fun.

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Originally Posted by Adler

It's very easy to make a lot of high quality mazes and dungeons instead of randomly generating them. They come out looking a lot more natural and fun.

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That's exactly my point lol

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Originally Posted by Adler

Manually created map > Randomly generated map

Flyff isn't Minecraft you know.

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aesthetically not functionally, randomly generated has perks when it comes to making them solve the area

as I said before the reason I was working on it was for more than to simply have random maps it's to serve a purpose.

if I had a dollar for every map people have labeled as "awesome" but was functionally useless I'd be going out to eat at a very expensive restaurant tonight.

aesthetics are not everything Bridget.

a map can look nice but not have as much appreciable use as a randomly generated one.

something is only as valuable as the utility it gives you.

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Originally Posted by ShadowDragon42

That's exactly my point lol

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as I said before, that really depends on your skill in deciding how it is generated as well as the who what when where of it.

no saying how far I will actually get but I've seen map randomly generated very well in the past and have done so on previous attempts on creating games.

it's not hard however it can get rather complex depending how realistic you want it

God..
Okay, listen.
Nobody cares about solving puzzles or seeing shitty maps that functions great.
If I wanted to do mazes or sumshit, I'd play another game.
Don't forget that flyff is a GRIND game.
That's something that will NEVER change about it. And even if it changes to more in-depth quest, people would rather play nice looking maps with the right atmosphere to them rather than having something completely unrelated to the quest whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Reimniess

if I had a dollar for every map people have labeled as "awesome" but was functionally useless I'd be going out to eat at a very expensive restaurant tonight.

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If you get a dollar for every map people have labaled as "awesome", but was functionally useless you'd most likely be unable to even buy MCDs. Maps I've mostly seen around are either complete shit or both decent on creativity and functionality.

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Originally Posted by Reimniess

aesthetics are not everything Bridget.

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If you're going to spend countless hours on creating a map, why the fuck would you leave it dysfunctional?

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Originally Posted by Reimniess

a map can look nice but not have as much appreciable use as a randomly generated one.

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A good map developer doesn't make useless maps. Your post is just full of ignorance, the very fact that you believe a coder's randomly generated map will look better than a map developed by an artist is just wrong. You aren't a god just because you can code. Leave the art to the artists and the code to the coders.

If i remember it correctly, you can spawn objects(all possible 3d models) into the game, right? Wich means you can put objects into a map, visible to everyone, without updating the client. Something like a ingame map editor, where you can't remove the part wich is already putted into the .lnd file with beast, but where you can add objects in it. I do know that you can do this in already flyff. The only thing that should be in it, is deleting, scaling and moving the objects. You should be able to select the models from a list like the spawn item command. That would be actually awesome. Oh and ofcours saving it into the database so you don't need to spawn them each time :D It's not of a much usefull system, but you wouldn't need to update the patcher each time.
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Another cool thing would be changing the revival system when you die. Instead of reviving with exp loss, you should be in some 'ghost' mode, where you need to get to your body to revive and gaining about 40-50% of the lost experience. The screen should be a bit more darker too hehe. Also, other 'ghosts' should be able to see each other, but not speak, buy, attack, etc.. This is a very similar system to WoW, but it would be nice to see it in flyff.

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Originally Posted by 0x61

If i remember it correctly, you can spawn objects(all possible 3d models) into the game, right? Wich means you can put objects into a map, visible to everyone, without updating the client. Something like a ingame map editor, where you can't remove the part wich is already putted into the .lnd file with beast, but where you can add objects in it. I do know that you can do this in already flyff. The only thing that should be in it, is deleting, scaling and moving the objects. You should be able to select the models from a list like the spawn item command. That would be actually awesome. Oh and ofcours saving it into the database so you don't need to spawn them each time :D It's not of a much usefull system, but you wouldn't need to update the patcher each time.

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Putting stuff like that in the database, would cause huge server overhead, especially with parties entering the dungeon.
The only way having the programs generating the map would be useful, would be if it was client-side (Neuz) generating it, and even then, you'd still get huge overhead unless you limited it to a single-player dungeon, cause it would have to send the generated map info to each person entering.

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Originally Posted by 0x61

Another cool thing would be changing the revival system when you die. Instead of reviving with exp loss, you should be in some 'ghost' mode, where you need to get to your body to revive and going about 40-50% of the lost experience. The screen should be a bit more darker too hehe. Also, other 'ghosts' should be able to see each other, but not speak, buy, attack, etc.. This is a very similar system to WoW, but it would be nice to see it in flyff.

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I've only played WoW for like a few hours, and that system sounds exactly like it..

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Originally Posted by ShadowDragon42

Putting stuff like that in the database, would cause huge server overhead, especially with parties entering the dungeon.
The only way having the programs generating the map would be useful, would be if it was client-side (Neuz) generating it, and even then, you'd still get huge overhead unless you limited it to a single-player dungeon, cause it would have to send the generated map info to each person entering.

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Why would that overhead the server. If that would overhead the server, monster spawn should too. Instead of sending the monster spawn packet you're sending the object spawn packet. Also, let's not use the database then, just save/load it from a file.
[id] [objectid] [posX] [posY] [posZ] [Scale]
That's all you need to save and load from it :D

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Originally Posted by ShadowDragon42

I've only played WoW for like a few hours, and that system sounds exactly like it..

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Yea i know, that's why i said it was a similar system to WoW's revival system :D But this doesn't mean it couldn't be used in flyff. It would be an amazing system :D