Not to mention, if he is actually able to 'integrate' them all, as I remember discussing previously, that would be even nicer.Originally Posted by Psytrac
Not to mention, if he is actually able to 'integrate' them all, as I remember discussing previously, that would be even nicer.
Frankly that doesn't make me 'feel' any emotion. Not happy, not sad, not confused, not anything! I did enjoy working with him in the past, though he's the one who said "I stopped coming here" which is clearly not the case because he IS still not only READING but POSTING. So, that makes that statement a flat out lie (if he truly stopped coming here he wouldn't even be lurking/reading let alone posting) <.< He is right though, I do not remember why he (WANTED to) quit coming here. Why, because there have been times I have gotten so angry I have wanted to leave too, but I didn't. Those things that make you so pissed you wanna leave, you either have to actually leave, or push them to the back burner and forget about them, which is what I did, otherwise I would have been gone a long time ago...!
As far as 'change' I'm sure everything/everyone has 'changed'. RZ, RZ/f452, Das, and myself. It's nature, things and people are always evolving and changing... So, about the people that come here and go "it wont let me put in the password", "how to run this server on windblowz", or otherwise ask purely stupid questions, or questions that have already been answered a million times, I get pissed too. Same goes, for leechers, is it cool for someone to leech, and not seed a torrent? No! Likewise, would it be cool for someone to come here just to download stuff and not be of any help/give back to the community in someway, of course not! Thief's too, would it be cool for someone to take somebody else's 'work' and re-release it elsewhere "calling it their own", certainly not! Can we stop this stuff though, absolutely not. Is that a reason to 'lock up' (become an elitist) and stop sharing your knowledge or work, not to me. We all started as n00bs, myself and Das included. Granted some of us read more than others, where some others are just quick to ask stupid questions that they could have eventually figured out on their own, or read somewhere because it had already been answered a million times previously, I don't see that as a reason to stop contributing to the very community that got me started. I have come to accept that there will always be SOMEONE to ask a stupid question, or something that's been answered a million times. I know that some people will just leech/lurk/troll/whatever and be of NO use to the 'community'. I don't even care if somebody 'stole' any of my 'work' and re-released it somewhere else trying to call it their own. I can even accept that many people will be under appreciative of my 'work'. I know it's going to happen, and there's nothing that can be done to stop it, aside not doing it, or not sharing it. So I guess in order to be a part of this community you HAVE to come to terms with all of that... ... ... If you cannot, then I guess it's not the place for you, or you have 'outgrown' it (if you were previously able to accept those terms), and best of luck to you (anyone) in whatever you do in/with your life... ... ...
Lastly, I do not have a problem with Das on a personal level (I would probably still get along great w/ him outside of RZ), but being a mod here I have to look out for the best interest of RZ while I'm on here. Sorry but, him never coming on, or only coming on to criticize somebody (or make any problems, even if it wasn't intended) isn't really being productive to or for RZ... ... ... So as long as I have a green sparkly name, I have to remove any 'emotion' or 'bias' and say/do whatever is in the best interest for RZ, even if that person was a RL friend, hell, even if that person was my wife.Spoiler:
You are wrong there. You can create new controllers with new IDs, create ActionSets and
Procedures. You can delete them as well. If you rather use a hex editor to do it, by all means,
go for it.
i just try and it wont work:Attachment 113334
maybe you tested it on other server type or its my fault.
I laugh hysterically every time das argues, rages, or claims to do anything himself. Then I simply die when his personal pet Loz shows up to defend him.
Also, ragezone was never good. Stop talking about "the old days", faggots.
Allow me to nullify das's and michae5k's (or Tsukasa, as i like to call him) arguements. First off, to address ronny's (and dont take this personally, i respect your work) statement about reinventing the wheel. Without such reinventions, your ass would be driving down the freeway (assuming we reinvented roads, as they would be dirt had we not done so) with tires made of stones. This would have to be hard on your axels, and stones would have quite a bit of trouble stopping on ice (rubber is alot easier to provide groved textures) without being painfully chizzled. After all, without reinvention, we probably wouldnt have the operating systems we have too. Let alone mmo's, as the first one would be the only one... Why reinvent the wheel, as you stated.
We, as humans, are known to make mistakes. Our inventions, while amazing, can also become outdated over time. As you can see, the RZ community has become lazy, so such a tool as beyastard has began working on, would help ease the forums influx of repeatedly asked questions. When everything is in 1 program, one does not need to open multiple programs, or search for different things, as all would be available in 1 executable. That being said, i would hope you can respect the original poster's reason for doing such a thing, and feel proud that your code helped influence such a lovely idea.
If you feel angered by him using your code, i would advise you not make things open source if you dont want your work to be edited, or improved.
As for das, (the angry rager, as i love to call him): Your whole entire point in this thread is invalid. Let's say your right, and that beyastered did copy ronny's work, as you claim. What does it matter? Ronny released his work as open source. Also, the work doesnt look copied. It looks improved. I have been using ronny's tools for a long time, and i love them and enjoy them like most of RZPW's developers, but i would also love such a tool that this man claims to be making. It wont do RZ any harm. It surely wont do PW any harm. Why the fuck should you care?
Everyone knows he used ronny's work, its evident from the looks of it. The question that i ask, is why you have such a problem with it. Sure, he could credit ronny for the world ronny did, but does not have to. If such was the case, i would have to credit ronny for my server existing. For without his tools, i wouldnt be capable of developing. Am i to credit ronny for every single release i make? Every patch i make? Ronny is respected here, by anyone that has ever used his tools. The fact that people dont say it, doesnt make it any less true.
Also michael (tsukasa): have you ever done a book report? I'm assuming you have, seeing as you were going to college during the time i spent playing your server. Reading material from books, and writing a summary of them, would that be considered plagiarism? I mean, how else can you describe content, without using examples from the content? Sure, theres citing sources (which beyastard has already done, making this already hilarious) that would prevent legal matters, but it still leaves the point that, you had to take from the book you read, to describe it. For beyastard to create tools to work with things created by ronny's tools, then he would have to see how ronny built his. It's clear, that beyastard built his program for maximum compatibility with content made using ronny's tools. Why is this a bad thing? Look at AMD. Their newest desktop cpu (opteron server based vishera) will be LGA socket. Do you know how amazing this is? AMD (the provider) went through trouble of changing their cpu socket designs, to make it easier on us (the consumers). This helps make upgrades easier, and allows us to have more choices, more compatiblity, and less trouble on our end, trying to find something that matches it. Had beyastard ignored ronny's source, and tried to make his own, theres a very big chance we would have to completely re-learn his tools, make new configs, and go out of our way to do such. This on the other hand, makes it easier on us, resulting in less flooding of the forum, with more people asking more questions.
Also, why are you guys still here? Last i checked das, you quit (gave your server to someone else) therefore, you no longer belong in pw developement. As for you michael, i was certain that you too, left pw developement, as you let someone else take over rebirth. I know why lozera is here, so i wont even bother asking that question. Also, the reason why RZ is degrading is because there are more consumers, than providers. Everyone wants shit, nobody wants to do shit. Here we have someone willing to give the community something, for free i might add, then people bitch, call it reinventing the wheel (which is the most ignorant statement used in modern times) and downright copy/pasted. I know this is out of line, seeing as i have not contributed to ragezone (though my brother has, and seeing as we work as a team, i indirectly contribute to ragezone) what have you guys contributed to benefit this community lately? Not looking for a response from you das, as your limited knowledge of pw is already disturbing, like when you said "its impossible to run 13 maps on 4gb of ram"(while i was running 16, with 600mb to spare, and pwadmin running, which also consumes ram). This entire matter should have never been made public. If RONNY had a problem with said poster regarding lack of credit, then RONNY should have discussed it with the poster, not any of you.
That being said, ill go back to hiding in my cave, as i respect the few honest contributers left on ragezone far too much for my mouth to muck it up. Though, ill leave with a nice qoute for all developers.
"It is impossible to make something Idiot-Proof. As soon as you do, they build a better idiot"
-MageTank
You are missing the point and going around in circles. If you cite your sources then are you not crediting the original authors for the information you used in your summary?
The point das was trying to make is that "IF" beyastard looked at and used any part of Ronny's code, no matter how small, then Ronny should have a place in the credits of the tool due to licensing. Its as simple as that.
If I were to take the existing Blender ski scripts convert them to Mel for use in Maya would I credit Phantom and PvPSeeker? Of course I would. Those scripts are under MIT license too and I would have used their code as a base. The same apply heres "IF" he did use code from Ronny. What is there to lose by putting someone else name in the credits alongside yours anyway?
There is no need for all the analogies and all the rest of the crap that has gone on here. A lot of them don't even apply to the situation. In some of the situations they probably don't have to credit others but its common courtesy to do so anyway. Something a lot of people lack these days.
On the hand it was a refreshing change to see someone trying to improve tools for everyone here. Its a shame it turn into this because of a misunderstanding.
Citing sources would be a different ball game compared to this. The MIT license does not technically REQUIRE the user of said material to give credit towards the original creator of the software. Morally, it's the right thing to do, but it isnt a requirement. Mind you, i would have liked to see him give thanks to ronny, but he does not have to, as the fact that hes using ronny's tools, to provide yet another free service to the community itself, should make ronny feel proud (would make me feel pretty damn good). That being said, none of us are ronny, therefore, we cant speak for him. Only ronny can decide if the lack of credit in this thread is insulting, not us. This alone makes all of our points invalid, resulting in a moot arguement.
I merely stated what i did, to prove a point regarding the fact that everything in life has been copied, or cloned atleast once. We are all guilty of doing it... hell, the existance of our servers dictate this (as we break so many copyrights running them, it isnt even funny)
Also, another reason i used citing as an example, was to provide that citing is required as plagiarism can be considered a crime, whereas not providing credit to people that released open source software, isnt. If i remember correctly, when it came to licensing, the auther of said product only seeks acknowledgement. Acknowledgement can be achieved in the form of including someones name in a copyright at the very end of the source (or on threads, such as this, to avoid the very headache caused in this thread). Had we all waited before jumping down each others throats, he probably would have credited ronny. Oh well. Isnt being mortal fun?
-MageTank
(Off topic)
For drakaer: I love your work when it comes to reskining models and such, and i was wanting to discuss the male fox models of jade dynasty, and perhaps see if it was possible to make male looking werefoxes. Assuming they share the same skeletal structures, that is. Figured since you responded to me, would be a nice time to bring it up xD
Good to see your still around Mage, and for the record, it was University, not college.
I don't really have much to say here as its a pretty black and white situation. I have done many reports including those portraying my work at multiple companies. Do i site the information i find...yes...it is called referencing, however lets pretend i was doing a book report of lord of the rings for example.
I may indeed include quotes and such to better my work, yet if i were to take lord of the rings and rewrite it to in it's entirety to be an exact duplicate but include lightsabers instead of swords, would the work be considered mine? no.
would saying my work is based on lord of the rings help me? no.
This issue obviously touched some nerves in some people, yet this argument is based on people's morals and opinions, not what is correct or not.
My issue within this discussion was not to take side but to rather point out that i can understand where Das is coming from and his point holds credit. My only issue portraying to this discussion was the rash reactions from the OP, who could be seen as doing a good job for the newcomers with a combined toolset.
Anyway I have no need to explain this discussion as everyone is free to their own opinions.
Best of luck to all those who wish to contribute to the community, i am now hopefully not going to be called back into this thread as it is rather immature and my time is needed else where.
It was my understanding that the OP may not have read the others post, as he seemed to jump to conclusions, from posts that ment no disrespect. Nice to see your still around too, btw lol. Also, atleast in america, you can get away with any creative change. For example: Lets say george lucas owns star wars. I can copy the characters, their likeness, and throw them in a different environment, and it remain entirely legal (which permission). When something is open source, you automatically give your permission for anyone to use your product. The only problem i have with this thread personally, is him not releasing the source to a certain race. If his source truely is based on ronny's, and ronny allows those who are chinese to use it, he, in return, should follow through on that. After all, open source is open source, no acceptions. There is no Semi-open source. That is my only problem (which is also why i laughed when you pointed out that hes preventing the very race that made the game, from using his source).
I saw das's point, but das always has a way of handling situations back-asswards. Rather than speaking kindly, he uses the "i know more than you, your automatically wrong, go hate yourself you knowledgeless piece of fecal matter" attitude he has, to bring situations to their worst.
Now back on topic: If this project continues, im sure my brother would love to help. He's proficient in c# and c++, learning java and what not. Atleast this would keep him from complaining to me how bored he is.
I agree with what you said
It makes more sense than your last post.
Do you mean replacing the fox form model with a different one? Then it should be possible. Just copy the ski, bon and ecm and animation files if it has them and replace the existing ones. You might run into issues with casting animations though.
http://forum.ragezone.com/f695/chara...sassin-719039/
If you do have casting issues then doing this might be possible to fix the animations but idk.
I also haven't messed with JD before and its been a while since I have played with PW models. I assume they work the same as PW though.
If you mean replacing the human form of the veno then its probably going to be more trouble than it is worth.
Well, for what it's worth, my tools is not compatible with Ronny's now.
Edit:
Just a quick question to those that accuse me of copying Ronny's code, verbatim:
Let's take, for example, a section of code from the save function of sNPCedit:
The code I use to do this is:Code:void save_dynamics(BinaryWriter^ bw) { for(int i=0; i<npcgen->dynamics->Length; i++) { bw->Write(npcgen->dynamics[i]->id); bw->Write(npcgen->dynamics[i]->spawn_x); bw->Write(npcgen->dynamics[i]->spawn_alt); bw->Write(npcgen->dynamics[i]->spawn_z); bw->Write(npcgen->dynamics[i]->unknown_5); bw->Write(npcgen->dynamics[i]->unknown_6); bw->Write(npcgen->dynamics[i]->unknown_7); bw->Write(npcgen->dynamics[i]->trigger); bw->Write(npcgen->dynamics[i]->unknown_8); } }
So my question is:Code:private void SaveDynamics(BinaryWriter bw) { foreach (var t in npcgen.dynamics) { bw.Write(t.id); bw.Write(t.spawnX); bw.Write(t.spawnAlt); bw.Write(t.spawnZ); bw.Write(t.unknown5); bw.Write(t.unknown6); bw.Write(t.unknown7); bw.Write(t.trigger); bw.Write(t.unknown8); } }
How in the hell can I write the data to a file in the same order as the file format calls for without being accused
of copying Ronny's code? If I write the data in a different order, the file becomes corrupt.
Take PDF Creator. It created PDF files identical to Adobe PDF. Does that mean PDF Creator is copying Adobe's
code, verbatim, simply because it can open, edit and save files in the same format? Simply because a program
has the same functionality as another does not mean one is copying the code from another.
(Like autos, again. Look at all the different auto manufacturers. Are they all copying from one another by making
cars with 4 wheels, an engine, seats, etc?)
How long is this dead horse going to be beaten???
Last edited by beyastard; 07-09-12 at 03:27 PM.
the only thing I do not understand, discussion by those who made the code, why not let the guy develop the tool, thereby releasing it, enjoy the tool,
bestayard not need to prove anything to anybody, if not stress about getting demonstrating how did the code or etc
Because I was told the data files are the "property of Ronny" I've went out of my way to ensure
that the program I'm working on is GUARANTEED 100% NOT COMPATIBLE with Ronny's
Tools or existing config files. I may incorporate an import function so they can still be used but...
not sure what accusations will come from the tool being able to read the "property of Ronny" data
files... Will I be dragged into court with lawsuits filed against me by third-parties?
Sorry, had to throw that one out there for a good laugh...
When did anyone say the data files were the property of Ronny?
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