What's changed in the last 5 years?

[Moogly]

Yep it still is. Up to version 1.9.0. Its perfectly fine to base your work of that version. Its not fine to steal & decompile closed source code. It was just closed as people where threatening to rename it and the contributions slacked off. Anyone who was still interested in contributing would still be able to do so if they had contacted me. I do recognize the effort that people have put into Arcturus while it was open source, and while not every contribution has ended up there I appreciate the willingness from others to actually contribute instead of keyboard warrioring hurr durr arcturus bad brrrt

Inb4 you cannot close so open source code: Yes you can.


I dont know you, never talked to you outside the forums and your comments have always been negative towards my development thread. Hence why you've been on my ignored list for 5 years. Don't pretend to be a saint and that all your issues with me is my fault. They're your issues.


Arcturus is badly written and is a collection of bad practices for 3 years of development without any refactoring. I've said it numerous times why you shouldn't base your work on Arcturus and take something else that has been released as open source, like butterfly, and has been properly coded, like butterfly.



Someone sold that work to him. It was not stolen without permission. There were at the time plenty of alternatives to phoenix. And if you think back then alternatives were lacking you should've picked up the time to work on a free emulator.

inb4 yeah you sold beny your decompiled & rebuildable as3 source so he has the right to release it; We had the agreement that he could not release it / open source it and only use it for his own projects.

You violated the copyrights and license of all the contributions to Arcturus that were licensed under the GPL by making it private though. Without the right legal paperwork you don't own any of their code. You have to literally remove all their commits and code in order to go private, you can't unlicense their commits and you can't base your work off theirs cause even translating GPL code to a new language makes the work GPL'd. I have known software licenses longer than you have coded. Hell, I don't know what your occupation is, but I'm a full time Software Engineer. I know everything that's worth knowing about software licenses because it's cost companies plenty of cash to steal from GPL'd code and I am not about to screw my employer over by including GPL'd code.

We used to have each other on Skype, you must have a bad memory, we spoke a few times, mainly me trying to clarify with you that it's nothing personal, but you spread a lot of misinformation, you still are right this moment about the GPL.

I agree, Arcturus needs major refactoring, but the original team lead of that project wrote most of that awful code and approved of PRs.

As for me pretending to be a saint, no such thing. You argue with every developer on here, when they all agree in unison and we're all wrong? Hell I don't even think it's an issue when I tell someone why their commentary on code is wrong or incorrect, I think it's correct for me to do so instead of allowing misinformation to spread.

[Shorty]

Apart from us all growing up, beginning to work and somewhat lose interest in our childhood hobbies. I think the main issue at hand hasn't been the lack of development within the community, it's the lack of features and/or development that's happened on the client of Habbo since 2018. There's hotels which look identical to what's being ran currently on Habbo.com but are two years behind on revisions and to the common person they wouldn't know the difference between the late 2018 client to the current 2020 client.

Apart from the tweaking of performance, creating new developments with new languages which are more common or relate to those who actively develop as a hobby, there really hasn't been a demand or need for active community development since the new flash client beta days. I remember us all puzzling away at the flash client, each working different parts to crack the secretbanner they implemented. Since then, apart from packet reshuffles every revision they publish, there hasn't been any major client changes worth keeping up to date with apart from crafting which isn't a feature deemed worthy for a retro when you can just buy the item rather than crafting it.

I guess some are actively looking out for the new client which Habbo have mentioned, but I imagine due to the staffing team they now have vs what they had they've probably not actually changed any networking behind the client rather it's just built on a new base so they can get people logged in from their desktops. I would love to know the ratio of people that now play Habbo casually from their tablets and/or phones vs logging on to their laptops or desktops.

[Moogly]

Apart from us all growing up, beginning to work and somewhat lose interest in our childhood hobbies. I think the main issue at hand hasn't been the lack of development within the community, it's the lack of features and/or development that's happened on the client of Habbo since 2018. There's hotels which look identical to what's being ran currently on Habbo.com but are two years behind on revisions and to the common person they wouldn't know the difference between the late 2018 client to the current 2020 client.

Apart from the tweaking of performance, creating new developments with new languages which are more common or relate to those who actively develop as a hobby, there really hasn't been a demand or need for active community development since the new flash client beta days. I remember us all puzzling away at the flash client, each working different parts to crack the secretbanner they implemented. Since then, apart from packet reshuffles every revision they publish, there hasn't been any major client changes worth keeping up to date with apart from crafting which isn't a feature deemed worthy for a retro when you can just buy the item rather than crafting it.

I guess some are actively looking out for the new client which Habbo have mentioned, but I imagine due to the staffing team they now have vs what they had they've probably not actually changed any networking behind the client rather it's just built on a new base so they can get people logged in from their desktops. I would love to know the ratio of people that now play Habbo casually from their tablets and/or phones vs logging on to their laptops or desktops.

There's an HTML5 client in the works that works 1:1 with existing emulators. The sky will be the limit once it is finished btw. It's showing very good progress from what I've seen. You could literally swap out all the graphics and have a new game entirely. Some developers don't post everything out in the open.

I agree though, can't really see much difference between the clients, but Habbo 2020 (what people call Sulake's 3rd client now that their 2nd one in Flash will come to an end) will come and that will present new challenges for existing emulators if they do a major change to Habbo as we currently know it.

[maritnmine]

Trouble? Locked up? Dunno what you guys think happened to me but at no point was I locked up or arrested lol.
I miss Otaku too and I miss working on Phoenix. I was reading through some of my old threads on here yesterday getting all nostalgic.

I have no regrets though, apart from being too public about who I actually was haha. I'm a full time web developer for a big company now and I have Habbo and those first v1 releases to thank for that. Life is good man and Otaku and Phoenix were an amazing experience to learn from and I made some amazing friends in real life from it too.

I did some shit bag things in the past but so did most people here, we were young and dumb. If you still have ill feelings toward me that's sad but I won't lose sleep over it. I contributed a whole section of my youth to this and even though some people like to blame me for making development stale I'd argue that's not really my fault, those that wanted to develop could have developed, if anything, I brought retros to the mainstream.

I recognized myself so much in what you wrote and thought I would just give you a shout-out and say it is nice to hear things are going well with you, and that we all grew up in the end. I get real nostalgic myself when my friends are sending me screenshots or stuff from the old days, and while it is tempting to start up with some emu project or continue on bfly, those days are over. I'm a backend developer full-time, so I get to play around with tech enough as it is, and for a better cause. When I think back at the Habbo days, it is mostly how "dumb, wild, and free" we were. I did some nasty things myself back in the days that I am not really proud of, but those were mistakes I also learned from. I got to know all kind of people, everything from people that are stuck in prison and I've lost contact with long time ago to people that I've became IRL friends with for life. And that is an experience I am grateful to have had.

As @Shorty says, we all get different interests, our lives changes. The show must go on. I think it is pretty common for htard veterans to quit retros at some point when they got a serious career or something more serious going than a Habbo server. Does anyone even know what Nillus or Meth0d is doing these days?

I've said it numerous times why you shouldn't base your work on Arcturus and take something else that has been released as open source, like butterfly, and has been properly coded, like butterfly.

bfly was not properly coded. It was poorly maintained and much of the focus I had on it while I worked on it was optimizing it and fixing bugs. At the time, I knew pretty much nothing about software design and architecture. I had some ideas, but there were many things I did not know or hadn't been introduced to yet. There are so many code smells/anti-patterns in bfly. God classes, lack of separation of concerns, huge functions, static everywhere, entirely untestable, just to mention a few flaws in the code. The code-base just reeks legacy when I open it now. I am still proud that I made bfly which had such an impact on the retro community, but it does have its flaws. It is regardless no good example of any well-written piece of software.

If you want my advise: humility is key to being a good developer. We all make mistakes, all of us, not because we're bad, but because we're human.

This is what I think is one of the most important things I have learned after having left the retro community. Looking back in time, I recognize that I had some god complex issues myself, and not recognizing my own mistakes was a big part of it. Instead of facing criticism with humility and openness, I just started arguing against instead, hammering on my keyboard lol.

- - - Updated - - -

Its not fine to steal & decompile closed source code. It was just closed as people where threatening to rename it and the contributions slacked off.

Following this logic, as a retro developer; how is it ok to reverse-engineer Habbo, which is someone else's property?

[Sojobo]

bfly was not properly coded. It was poorly maintained and much of the focus I had on it while I worked on it was optimizing it and fixing bugs. At the time, I knew pretty much nothing about software design and architecture. I had some ideas, but there were many things I did not know or hadn't been introduced to yet. There are so many code smells/anti-patterns in bfly. God classes, lack of separation of concerns, huge functions, static everywhere, entirely untestable, just to mention a few flaws in the code. The code-base just reeks legacy when I open it now. I am still proud that I made bfly which had such an impact on the retro community, but it does have its flaws. It is regardless no good example of any well-written piece of software.

100% man. I wish I still had my old sources to look at but I know for a fact that they'll be awful too. I learned a hell of a lot but doing it professionally makes you wake up to so many good practices that I should have got into a long time ago.
It's good to see old names still knocking about here, I checked into the RZ discord but I didn't see a Habbo section and so I couldn't really see anyone I recognised. If anyone wants to chat sometime feel free to add me: Sojobo#2331

[Biesmen]

Following this logic, as a retro developer; how is it ok to reverse-engineer Habbo, which is someone else's property?

Amen to that.

Any emulator is one big illegal project - your license literally means nothing. You have no leg to stand on when someone violates your license. This is like a thief telling another thief it is illegal to steal their stolen goods. Unfortunately this has been a discussion in this section for the last (couple of?) year(s?).

[The General]

Following this logic, as a retro developer; how is it ok to reverse-engineer Habbo, which is someone else's property?

Its not. Its illegal to run retros. Reverse engineering is allowed. Building an emulator is allowed. Running an emulator to do copyright infringement, selling licenses, any monetary incentive is not. But you dont call people out on their retros so whatever.
Its not allowed to decompile & rename copyrighted content either.

But as a community for habbo emulation you'd atleast expect people to have respect for others work, which is already too much asked here, unfortunately. Its a toxic place and it could've been different but alas people rather have renames than a stable emulator and not call people out on their bullshit.

[maritnmine]

Its not. Its illegal to run retros. Reverse engineering is allowed. Building an emulator is allowed. Running an emulator to do copyright infringement, selling licenses, any monetary incentive is not. But you dont call people out on their retros so whatever.
Its not allowed to decompile & rename copyrighted content either.

But as a community for habbo emulation you'd atleast expect people to have respect for others work, which is already too much asked here, unfortunately. Its a toxic place and it could've been different but alas people rather have renames than a stable emulator and not call people out on their bullshit.

I didn't ask if it was legal or illegal. I asked if it was ok in terms of respecting other people's property as you so clearly point out nobody is capable of in this section:

Following this logic, as a retro developer; how is it ok to reverse-engineer Habbo, which is someone else's property?

[NoBrain]

TLDR; nothing has changed, Habbo is dying (incl. private servers), and /censored/ is still being /censored/.

@maritnmine is also a big gay. RIP butaflie

[Biesmen]

Its not. Its illegal to run retros. Reverse engineering is allowed. Building an emulator is allowed.

I didn't ask if it was legal or illegal. I asked if it was ok in terms of respecting other people's property as you so clearly point out nobody is capable of in this section:

I did. Let me show you why I believe it is illegal to reverse engineer copyrighted work.
Reverse engineering copyright work seems illegal according to the EU and US law. According to the law it is not legal to gain unauthorized access to copyrighted work (which is the purpose of reverse engineering Habbo Hotel, isn't it?) just like using this copyrighted work (running a retro). https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201, https://reverseengineering.stackexch...tware-products

The software license of Habbo also makes this illegal:
https://help.habbo.com/hc/en-us/arti...al-Information

The copying, reproduction, modification, and creation of derivative works of the Software to any other server or location for further reproduction, redistribution, selling, loaning, leasing, renting is expressly prohibited except as permitted under the terms of the relative Licence Agreement.

I'm not here to join a discussion or cause one, but I am tired of the whole "my license violation" discussion in this section which is a waste of everyone's time. Yes, technically people are violating your license, but technically you can't do anything about it since you're on the same level of illegality as they are (maybe even worse, since you provided them the knowledge and the base of the work of the people who 'renamed' your emulator)

[maritnmine]

martinmine is also a big gay. RIP butaflie

I know you are resource constrained but are you seriously unable to write my username correctly?

[Moogly]

TLDR; nothing has changed, Habbo is dying (incl. private servers), and /censored/ is still being /censored/.

Maybe on RaGEZONE but elsewhere on Discord I see more active people collaborating together.

[maritnmine]

technically you can't do anything about it since you're on the same level of illegality as they are (maybe even worse, since you provided them the knowledge and the base of the work of the people who 'renamed' your emulator)

This is the legal part of the point I was trying to make, I was thinking more about how people respect each others work in terms of behavior. My point is that when you are copying/emulating/whatever for personal gain, you cannot expect others that are also copying/emulating/whatever the same stuff to respect your property. If they don't respect the property of the original owner, why would they respect yours? As long as they don't gain anything from it, they won't. Htards are only interested in getting their ego boosted by slapping their name on your emulator, or get the latest features to their servers to get more users. They will care as much about your property as Sulake's.

[The General]

*snip*

The problem here is that people are still being dicks and its tolerated to steal, leech, rename. People have stopped contributing because of the intolerance of the RZ staff to support development. There used to be rules in place that prohibited decompiled, closed source work of fellow members to be posted here as it would discourage future contributions, and it definitely has discouraged plenty of contributions that never happened. Someone in their insane mind figured it was better to allow renames rather than having a few quality contributions. Meh, history is repeating itself just like it did with butterstorm / plus. Crappy renames just because people want some attention and have their name in the server console, regardless of a new version of habbo.

Also why you think the only active developments don't have their source code posted...?

[Caustik]

Trouble? Locked up? Dunno what you guys think happened to me but at no point was I locked up or arrested lol.
I miss Otaku too and I miss working on Phoenix. I was reading through some of my old threads on here yesterday getting all nostalgic.

I have no regrets though, apart from being too public about who I actually was haha. I'm a full time web developer for a big company now and I have Habbo and those first v1 releases to thank for that. Life is good man and Otaku and Phoenix were an amazing experience to learn from and I made some amazing friends in real life from it too.

I did some shit bag things in the past but so did most people here, we were young and dumb. If you still have ill feelings toward me that's sad but I won't lose sleep over it. I contributed a whole section of my youth to this and even though some people like to blame me for making development stale I'd argue that's not really my fault, those that wanted to develop could have developed, if anything, I brought retros to the mainstream.

That wasn't me being serious, it's a story you could tell your kids/grandkids - a big evil corporation tried to get me down but I persevered and beat the system (that's what I would do anyway)