Why is there no "middle of the road" server?

[SYJourney]

Hello ragezone,
I've just been looking through gtop100, trying to see if there is any server worth checking out. And I noticed that for the most part, servers can be very easily divided into two groups:

- Nostalgic servers, which usually have the problem that they lack content. Some of them have low rates to make their content "last longer", but that also means that you'll be grinding longer to unlock content in the first place. Then there's some which claim to be "nostalgic with a twist" but that usually just means really terrible gameplay design choices.

- Mid- to High-rate post-BB servers, which have the problem that most content doesn't really matter. What I mean by that is that most areas/bosses/pqs are not even worth doing because there's better rewards in doing other things. These servers are also all very easy, I think the lowest rate for a post-bb server I saw was 4x, which still means that it's possible to reach level 120+ within a day. And then from my experience, even servers which claim to be up-to-date usually lack a huge amount of content from the version that they are supposed to emulate.

So I'm wondering why noone has made any server that combines both approaches into something better. Basically a server that offers a nostalgic experience in the early stages, and that is hard enough to be competitive, but that also offers alot of the newer content like the newer systems, areas and bosses.
Not only do I think that it would be a much better gameplay experience overall, I also think that such a server could attract alot more players by appealing both to people who want nostalgia and people who want new content.

I've always wanted to play that kind of server. Back when I was a player only and hadn't developed anything yet, I thought that making this kind of server was simply too hard for any server owner. But now that I have some experience with coding I know that really isn't the case. So am I alone on wanting this kind of server or is there just no owner who ever bothered to make something like it.

[MentaL]

[Linkerzz]

I feel as if i've had a similar thought as well before, but maybe i'm just remembering you talking about this exact problem some time ago.
I can only assume many servers have been attempting this objective.. but haven't completely got it down for one reason or another..
Now it's just a race against the clock after that inspirational speech SYJourney, like if u cri every time. :^)

OT: I really really hope for a pserver somewhat along these lines (it's not fun downloading every client under the sun to find a good serv)

[Kimberly]

Its mostly because its not possible.

If you create a nostalgic server, you often use a low version. In low versions you cannot implement features from the later version. However, if you use a later version, your server may not be nostalgic due to client based changes that cannot be removed. This question is possible in your custom client, because there's no limitations (I assume), but I don't think your question is possible on the current clients that are (almost) impossible to directly edit.

However, I am asking you:

Basically a server that offers a nostalgic experience in the early stages, and that is hard enough to be competitive,

What is nostalgic to you?

[SYJourney]

Its mostly because its not possible.

If you create a nostalgic server, you often use a low version. In low versions you cannot implement features from the later version. However, if you use a later version, your server may not be nostalgic due to client based changes that cannot be removed. This question is possible in your custom client, because there's no limitations (I assume), but I don't think your question is possible on the current clients that are (almost) impossible to directly edit.

The client thing is a limitation, but it's still possible to add close to all newer areas and bosses for example. It's also possible to recreate some of the newer game-systems. These won't be 100% of course but as long as an addition is still fun and doesn't break the game this shouldn't matter that much.

However, I am asking you:



What is nostalgic to you?

A nostalgic server to me is one that has the old victoria maps (pre-BB) and the 5 (or 4) original jobs. I think these are the most important because nostalgia comes from doing these old quests and visiting these old maps. Jobs are important I think because the newer jobs are mostly overpowered, and the rebalancing that was then done later just made all of the jobs too similiar.
In general I'd say most v83 and below servers, these are also the servers that commonly advertise themselves as nostalgic.

[Kimberly]

The client thing is a limitation, but it's still possible to add close to all newer areas and bosses for example.

This get nowadays done in Nostalgic servers. However, you need understand also this takes a long time. The reason to this is because in later versions Nexon heavily increased the overall damage of everything, which means the newer mobs are unkillable on lower versions standards, unless you tweak it, which takes a lot of times and practice. Also, if you example take Pink Bean, it has already features (I believe guard or something) which is unsupported by any version lower than 72, similar for other bosses from newer versions.

These won't be 100% of course but as long as an addition is still fun and doesn't break the game this shouldn't matter that much.

This is already a problem though. (General) "nostalgic" people are really strict. This means a custom NPC or a hacky way to implement something could already be very negative, because it makes the server look very "Private Server"ish.

Most nostalgic people like 100% authentic GMS-like text and GMS-like functions, which means if you run a 0.62 server you can pretty much only implement the features that are coded within the client in 0.62 (packets). Likewise, if you run a 0.83 server only the 0.83 features.

There's also many servers that tried go in the custom way, but most heavily custom servers (especially those aiming at nostalgia) fail horribly due to lack of interest.

[SYJourney]

This get nowadays done in Nostalgic servers. However, you need understand also this takes a long time. The reason to this is because in later versions Nexon heavily increased the overall damage of everything, which means the newer mobs are unkillable on lower versions standards, unless you tweak it, which takes a lot of times and practice. Also, if you example take Pink Bean, it has already features (I believe guard or something) which is unsupported by any version lower than 72, similar for other bosses from newer versions.

This is already a problem though. (General) "nostalgic" people are really strict. This means a custom NPC or a hacky way to implement something could already be very negative, because it makes the server look very "Private Server"ish.

Most nostalgic people like 100% authentic GMS-like text and GMS-like functions, which means if you run a 0.62 server you can pretty much only implement the features that are coded within the client in 0.62 (packets). Likewise, if you run a 0.83 server only the 0.83 features.

There's also many servers that tried go in the custom way, but most heavily custom servers (especially those aiming at nostalgia) fail horribly due to lack of interest.

Of course there will be lots of different opinions on how gms-like a server has to be to be nostalgic. And the same for how mobs/bosses and new features should be balanced. I think that with a server like yours people are probably very strict. But it really depends on the person, for some other people including me only having the nostalgic features becomes boring eventually.
Community Suggestion: Content Poll (CWKPQ - Pink Bean - LHC) | MapleRoyals<- it's an old thread already but the same discussion, so it came to my mind

About "hacky" implementations of features driving people way, that should be avoided of course. And in connection with that, on the heavily custom servers I've seen, that was usually the problem, they would do terribly hacky fixes like making something that should be a menu in a newer version an npc.

Overall I also wouldn't play a server that is too "custom", but I think that a server which just has newer areas and bosses could be good.

[sunnyboy]

If I'm looking for nostalgic servers, I wouldn't go play some v62 with wz edits because that is far from nostalgic. Going on v12 to v54 < is pretty nostalgic since they're very old and no public server sources available ( I made my own). The only issue with that is it's very limiting in content wise even if you were to code "custom" stuff... it's still pretty difficult with the lack of resources (packet wise) to customize.

In my point of view, there is no server worth playing anymore as it's all (in my opinion) boring.

We need a new game.


With the custom client being made by @SYJourney could possibly open a new chapter or era in maple servers because not only can we customize servers, but also client wise now also. Level cap, jobs, skills, packets, etc can be added. Mostly looking forward to this!

[Zygon]

It really just comes down to creativity. You can do quite a lot with packets to cheat the normal way of handling things if you're creative about it. There is also a place for WZ edits in all of this because repackers do have the ability to actually ADD data into the files without encroaching on/writing over any of the already existing data.

For the most part, I am tired of the standard private server because it is a concept beaten to death already. I personally don't really care about nostalgia because I had my fill when Global was actually the "nostalgia" versions and I am sick to death of how the game played back then. Also, private servers cannot easily emulate the "nostalgia factor" because their populations are incredibly smaller than Global back in the day just by virtue of them being private servers and that most people outgrew this game a long time ago. Albeit, it is still better than being a theme-park MMO since they're all basically WoW clones, but that isn't really saying much when the content diversity in MapleStory is strictly just the class you choose to play.

tl;dr: Please change the game already.

[Zychronix]

I think the main problem here would be attracting players from both ends to come to this "middle of the road" server, but as mentioned above, I don't think there is a middle ground to begin with. The server will always be leaning towards one side even if the balance between new and old is well done. Some people are deterred by just the version you are dealing with.

From my experience with the lower versions, you can only do so much without the implementation of newer systems eventually becoming "hacky". One of my not so hacky ways to do HP/MP over 30000 was to make it display your HP as a percentage out of 100. The reception from my implementation of this on the server was 50/50 at best. I assume with the higher versions you would have to remove a lot of things as well.

To me, I think the only way to attract players to the middle ground is with the custom client. As I say, we are suffering from a "same shit, different smell" situation for some time now. With the client it's a new experience and not some version they expect to have/not have X feature in. We need to actually create these new systems and not have some work around that makes it as easy as possible for the player to interact with.

[Zydee]

I think the reason server's like that can't exist is because people think too far into the future and not about the present; the bridge to get there. It isn't an instant from here to there, but rather a step by step process. Finding the unique twist between game player is difficult but is most certainly not impossible. I would like to say I am beginning to do these things for a server I am developing. I am a new developer that is still even reviewing the basics, but I would like to say through the help of sunnyboy, oxysoft, alpha, dray, chunkarama and some other people I respect very much, I am clearing a path for myself.

The idea of my nostalgic, a server with the qualities of maplestory we grew up on - the non-pay to win, the "effort needed" gameplay and the thrill of getting something new but already wanting the next knowing you can only get better, is something I aim to create. I have taken oxy's v90 TropikMS source (all credits to him and his development team) and converted it from a high rate to a low rate server. Though it longs from completion, it is a huge work in progress. The thing about Aria is, aside from all the global maplestory like features that we all know as "GMS LIKE", I have taken the effort to add in things from higher versions along with custom content from other shows. These content include: Naruto eyes, Sword art online 100 tower expedition, new bosses I created (balanced too- EX: hell and heaven, if you become a sinner you can only take down heaven's boss and that will drop items 1, 3 and 5 while hell's boss will drop 2,4,6 ETC. This will be monitored through a custom client that will 1. force only one client per Internet home network and 2. have a special log per computer that will not allow the player to fight both.) frame by frame from bannedstory - maple simulator, new jumpquest hand made through wz, rarenx, random maple events, etc! Bosses will be scattered all along the map like current bosses (ex: pink bean in temple of time). Though I am maybe only 60% done with all the custom stuff, I aim to finish by the end of the month.

I am not saying I am a decent coder, as I am far from, but rather a willing coder who hasn't given up. Tell me what you think of my idea, does my server par towards your idea?

[awknigg]

On my server, we offer nostalgic low-rate features like GMS-style bossing (item and equip limitations to make it challenging), gachapon, and more, with high-rate features like fast leveling/rebirthing so people can get their skills and maxed stats and just hang out if they don't like the low rate grind. But it's tough pleasing both crowds, and there's severe problems with people on both ends of the spectrums. You get no-life socially awkward people playing low rate and lazy, cancerous trolls playing high rate. It's a struggle, but that's why this isn't for everyone (even though every kid and his mom is owning a server nowadays).

[sunnyboy]

I coded an src in complete hardcore survival challenge mode. Like you die and your character gets deleted, so you start over. Of course a lot of other features. I did nothing with it tho because I just have no free time, money or patience. It would be very fun because it's different, but maybe that's just me.

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[awknigg]

I coded an src in complete hardcore survival challenge mode. Like you die and your character gets deleted, so you start over. Of course a lot of other features. I did nothing with it tho because I just have no free time, money or patience. It would be very fun because it's different, but maybe that's just me.

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I just don't see today's lazy ass pserver players being committed to anything that hard.

[sunnyboy]

I just don't see today's lazy ass pserver players being committed to anything that hard.

Which generally means all they want is the same stuff over and over.

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[awknigg]

Which generally means all they want is the same stuff over and over.

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yep but they'll claim they want something new.