A insight into the process of making a indie game.

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  1. #1
    Alpha Member Justei is offline
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    A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Hello there!
    So, I wanted to tell you guys about a project I have been working on with a couple of friends for the past couple of months.
    I have waited with telling people about this as I wanted to see if we would stick to it though some hard times (and we did brilliantly!).

    PLEASE keep in mind, this is rougly 30% of all the work and time we have put into this project that I have described below, I just didn't have time to write everything because it would be boring to read, and it would just be too much. These are the "milestones" in our project so far!

    There are several reasons as to why I want to tell you guys all of this (they are listed below) but the most important, is that I want to give some people a insight into the world of a indie developer. I don't know how many have tried it, but it's a very hard profession, you don't get paid, and everything you do is very harshly judged and sometimes your income may depend on one project that may or may not fail. Every project is a huge gamble and you don't know until you have released, if it's going to fail or not.


    I wanted to tell you guys about this because:
    1. It's always incredibly fun to get feedback.
    2. I want to show that anyone can do this, with a TON of work, and time, anyone can achieve pretty cool results!
    3. We want to show off a bit already, so we can have a place to update a bit :) and this seemed like a as good place as any to do so!


    So let's start!

    What IS this project I am talking about? Well, the projects so called "working title" is "Last Dusk".

    It's a FPS survival game, and my "presentation" of this will be broken down into smaller parts, as to make it easier for people that are interested in reading about different things to read what you actually want to read!

    I'll break it down into:
    • Story behind the project (how did it start, how long, who are the devs, funding, etc.)
    • Technical aspects (Stuff like building our own MoCap studio, finding actors to do MoCap, our trip to England).
    • Software aspects (What software do we use to process everything? Why did we choose this software?)
    • Coding (Who does what? Why? Are we experienced in this?)
    • Graphics (Who does what? Why? Are we experienced in this?)
    • Gameplay aspects (What will the game be like? Why did we choose this type of game? HOW did this happen?)
    • Progress (How far have gotten? How experienced are we really?)




    Story behind the project
    Spoiler:


    The story is pretty long, and it all starts about 4 years ago, when me and a friend of mine started developing together, his name is Hampus, and we both started developing a ton of different projects, some larger, some smaller.

    We then started getting interested in game development, we did some of that by working with graphics engine directly (note, not game engines, graphics engines.).

    It was fun in general, we learned a LOT about the limits of graphics, how graphics actually work. What works, why it works, and what to do to make something look good or feel good!

    Back then we got to a point where we needed help in regards to physics in a project we worked on, so we went on IRC for the graphics engine we worked on, and contacted a nice person who called himself "Cobra", we talked to him and made a deal, where he would help us out in exchange for a small amount of money.
    He did a wonderful job, we loved the result and he got his cash.

    About a year passed and we then spoke again, we needed more help! He looked at the project and liked our progress, we started talking seriously about joining each others teams.
    It just made sense, we joined each other, and started to work on a simple game project and soon realized we needed to change engines, so we switched to "Unity".
    After a couple of hours we started working on our current title called "Last Dusk". Which we are still working on.

    Motion Capture
    Yes, a very interesting topic, at least for us!
    We figured that we really wanted to get good animations for our game, it's hard though unless you are really good at animating and have a huge team to do animations for you for hours on end.

    So we figured we would try to make our own motion capture studio.
    We started out by buying 2 PS3 eye cameras, we acquired some software, and started working on it. After around 15 hour of work, we managed to produce a very simple animation, however depth wasn't very good, and we were not very happy with the results yet. We could pretty much only get pretty un-detailed 2D animations and it just wasn't what we were hoping for. (I'll upload a video here soon).

    After a week or so we talked to a friend of our who is a student at the university of Westminister in London (worth mentioning, we are from Sweden, and one of us is from the US (Cobra/Josiah)).
    We talked to him, and told him about the project, he immediately showed interest in helping us, apparently he was studying to become a director, and this would be fun for him to do with us. So he got to Sweden, we set up a studio, and we got two actors to help us out make the animations look good! By now we had just bought 2 more cameras, which were to allow us to get even more detail and allow the actor to move in more complex ways without having to worry about the cameras at all.
    We had a full day of motion capture, incredibly exhausting and long, but we managed to get a good chunk of footage (around 60gb).
    Unfortunately we later realized that the equipment malfunctioned and gave us a dropped framerate which made everything almost worthless, however we learned a lot, and this allowed us to set up a new studio at home and taught us a LOT on what could go wrong!
    However let's continue!


    But we still needed money! We had already put in a BIG amount of money into the project, we sunk pretty much all of our money in, but as any dev can tell you, unless you outsource some things, you are going to end up working for years on stuff you can just get done within hours if you pay someone to help you! Also we needed to pay for some equipment for our new Motion Capture studio(I'll get to that later).
    Luckily just about that time we got a offer, where we would design a simple game in Irrlicht for a individual for a decent sum of money. Said and done, we did that over a couple of days and delivered! Now, so you guys know what kind of money we are talking about here, so far we have (to this day) only had about 300 euros in the budget for this project!

    We got another 350~ euros for the small project we made, so we now on a +/- 0 again.


    Technical aspects
    Spoiler:

    Motion Capture
    One of the most useful things, and most time consuming, that we have come across.
    First of I'll explain what it is. It's a system where you put up a bunch of cameras in a room, you stand in front of them, and do a animation (for example running, hitting, or act out a cutscene).

    The cameras record the data, and then you process this data into animation files, that you later (after post processing in MB or other software). Import and use in your game engine.

    So, this was one hell of a project to get going. And I'm going to show you guys some footage of what it looks like when we do motion capture.
    LastDusk MoCap - YouTube

    As you can tell, it's pretty good at giving us realistic movement!
    But don't be fooled! This is only 10% of the actual work to get this into the game.
    What we do after this is import it into MotionBuilder.
    imgur: the simple image sharer

    After doing a bunch of work in MotionBuilder (cutting, optimizing, fixing up jitter etc).
    We get it to the game engine.
    imgur: the simple image sharer

    A rough estimate for each animation (time wise) would be:
    Recording + tracking: 1h.
    Fixing in motionbuilder: 10-20 minutes depending on animation.
    Importing to game engine: 3 minutes.



    Software aspects
    Spoiler:

    This is a pretty simple and fast part of this post, we use Unity for our game engine, it's a very good game engine, I strongly recommend it!
    We use 3ds max and motionbuilder + blender (occasionally) for models + animations.
    And we also heavily rely on Skype for communication.


    Coding
    Spoiler:

    The coding is mostly done by Josiah (Cobra). The reasoning for this is that he is incredibly talented at it, I used to code in our previous projects but he has taken over most of that. I still code anything not game-related directly, such as websites etc seeing as I have most experience in that.
    I really want to point out now that I have the chance that he is a brilliant coder and a great developer.


    Graphics
    Spoiler:

    Oh yes, the graphics.
    This is a major part in our project obviously, and it relies on all of us. But mostly on Hampus, he is a brilliant graphics designer. The biggest quality he has is that if you tell him to do ANYTHING, he will do it, regardless of if he has NO IDEA of how to do it, he will find out. And he will get you what you want.

    Persistence is a natural quality of him, and without him, I would not be sitting here writing this post. (He does 3d models, textures, and all other crap like images, logos, etc).

    A sample image of what he recently did (some assets for the game).
    http://imgur.com/6tV2I



    Gameplay aspects

    Spoiler:

    Well, I can't reveal too much. But it's a survival zombie game. We have quite a lot of unique ideas and it's hopefully going to be entertaining for people to play. We are going for some realism and most importantly, feeling.
    Graphics, game mechanics, and sounds are key here if you ask us, and of course story!



    Progress
    Spoiler:

    Oh boy, yes, we have done quite a LOT. I would dare to say we have gotten around 10% done. Visually it's not much. But the AI, game mechanics, and so on, and setting up animations and the MoCap system was a BIG chunk of the work! We are currently undergoing talks with a very talented music creator. And hopefully we get VERY nice custom music for our game.

    I will update this from time to time when I want to reveal something :).



    Pheewww...
    There you go! A insight into the process, and work, that goes into making a simple FPS indie game.
    Last edited by Justei; 14-05-12 at 03:23 PM.


  2. #2
    Ass > Tits Lapje is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Thanks!

    This is.. amazing I guess. I knew making games wasn't something you can do overnight, but to imagine it would require so much work..
    That having said it seems incredibly fun! I'm definitely going to try this later when I'm in Uni.

    Just to clear this up, is it going to be MO or single player? Or perhaps a mix of it?

    Mm, I don't really have anything left to say lol =3.

    I wish you the best of luck with Last Dusk! And I'm really looking forward to see progress.

  3. #3
    Alpha Member Justei is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapje View Post
    Thanks!

    This is.. amazing I guess. I knew making games wasn't something you can do overnight, but to imagine it would require so much work..
    That having said it seems incredibly fun! I'm definitely going to try this later when I'm in Uni.

    Just to clear this up, is it going to be MO or single player? Or perhaps a mix of it?

    Mm, I don't really have anything left to say lol =3.

    I wish you the best of luck with Last Dusk! And I'm really looking forward to see progress.
    It's going to be a singleplayer game :) we originally thought of making it MultiPlayer as well, but we just don't see that happening anytime soon because of the amount of work we would have to put in, also the networking itself would require a good server etc, and we just don't want to go there.
    We are going to pitch it to steam and get their SDK so hopefully we can do some fun stuff there, but we will see :).

    It's a ton of work to make a game, and one of the biggest things that has helped us when we have been working, is we have NEVER underestimated the time and work required to do something like this, we knew when we went into this that it would be a full time job, for at least 1-2 years. And that it will be very hard for us. But we have chosen to go on, simply because we love doing what we do :P.

    If it's one thing I wanna give any indie game dev as a advice then it's: Do NOT underestimate the work that goes into making a game. Even the smallest game will take you time and effort. You can't just snap your fingers and have the next big title game in your hands.

  4. #4
    Alpha Member Jolin88 is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    You left out "sound" even if it's something you can delay, sooner or later you'll need someone able to make music and some source for the sounds
    I'm making an indie game of my own and in my team the biggest problem is graphics because of lack of talented artist

  5. #5
    Alpha Member Justei is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolin88 View Post
    You left out "sound" even if it's something you can delay, sooner or later you'll need someone able to make music and some source for the sounds
    I'm making an indie game of my own and in my team the biggest problem is graphics because of lack of talented artist
    I did not :) it's in there!
    We actually have voice actors, and so on. BUT the reason that it isn't in the post, is because we have scheduled our work with our voice actors in a studio in london this sumer :). We are also talking with a very talented music writer called "hania" from Newgrounds (I recommend you to check her out).

    I recommend you find a artist that has the passion and drive to learn! That's all you can ask as a indie game dev :). Also make sure he's a person that you can work with (a good friend).
    Our graphics designer/artist is INCREDIBLY talented! But he didn't get there overnight :).

    This is one of her songs:
    Alice is Dead


    Edit: Oh, and we also do sounds on our own as well :) we have acquired studio equipment to record stuff as well ^^ just a matter of finding the right people to help you and you can do all of that as well :).

  6. #6
    Saucepan ImAwesome is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolin88 View Post
    You left out "sound" even if it's something you can delay, sooner or later you'll need someone able to make music and some source for the sounds
    I'm making an indie game of my own and in my team the biggest problem is graphics because of lack of talented artist
    Well, he did pointed about the music creator. Check the Progress part.

    Damn, live view or some shit did not work. Didn't saw the post above until I posted.

  7. #7
    Ass > Tits Lapje is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justei View Post
    It's going to be a singleplayer game :) we originally thought of making it MultiPlayer as well, but we just don't see that happening anytime soon because of the amount of work we would have to put in, also the networking itself would require a good server etc, and we just don't want to go there.
    We are going to pitch it to steam and get their SDK so hopefully we can do some fun stuff there, but we will see :).

    It's a ton of work to make a game, and one of the biggest things that has helped us when we have been working, is we have NEVER underestimated the time and work required to do something like this, we knew when we went into this that it would be a full time job, for at least 1-2 years. And that it will be very hard for us. But we have chosen to go on, simply because we love doing what we do :P.

    If it's one thing I wanna give any indie game dev as a advice then it's: Do NOT underestimate the work that goes into making a game. Even the smallest game will take you time and effort. You can't just snap your fingers and have the next big title game in your hands.
    Alright, thanks for the advice!

    Any particular reason why you used PS3 eye cameras?

  8. #8
    Alpha Member Justei is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapje View Post
    Alright, thanks for the advice!

    Any particular reason why you used PS3 eye cameras?
    Yes!
    We had to choose between PS3 eye cameras and XBox Kinect cameras (there might be some other alternatives, but I only remember these tbh).

    First of all, the PS3 eye camera can record up to 60fps, which is pretty damn good! It can also get very neat quality, it's also very light and in general a pretty neat camera! But the most important factor for us was the price!
    We could get 4 ps3 eye cameras for the price of 1 kinect, or something along those lines.

    The kinect cameras are indeed incredibly nice as well, we could probably get very nice results with that camera too! But we just couldn't afford to go with it.

  9. #9
    Alpha Member Jolin88 is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    I recommend you find a artist that has the passion and drive to learn! That's all you can ask as a indie game dev :). Also make sure he's a person that you can work with (a good friend).
    Our graphics designer/artist is INCREDIBLY talented! But he didn't get there overnight :).
    Too bad I can't find someone willing to join the project without being paid by the hour, we had an artist once but he quit after less than a month.
    Actually I wonder why ragezone doesn't have a team recruitment section that isn't for private servers, according to the team recruitment section you require it to be a private server to be a valid thread

  10. #10
    Alpha Member Justei is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolin88 View Post
    Too bad I can't find someone willing to join the project without being paid by the hour, we had an artist once but he quit after less than a month.
    Actually I wonder why ragezone doesn't have a team recruitment section that isn't for private servers, according to the team recruitment section you require it to be a private server to be a valid thread
    Yes, it's very hard indeed :(!
    Me and Hampus go way back, we are also very good friends on top of that (we are best friends).
    But what you need to do is to find someone that might not be the perfect developer YET!
    Hampus wasn't perfect when we started, heck he didn't even know how to UVV map when we started! But he learned, and after 4 years, he's now awesome at what he does!

    But it didn't go overnight, and many projects have come and gone for us to get to this point. The reason he stays with me and doesn't require payment from our team is because we have worked so long and so hard together, that it's just natural.
    But if someone else recruited him, he wouldn't work for free (neither would I).

    I recommend you find someone you like, prioritize that over what he knows, and has the genuine interest in learning and working hard!
    I always choose people in this order:
    1. Do I like this person?
    2. Will I be able to stand to sit for 12 hours a day with him in skype?
    3. Is he good at what he does?
    3.b If not? Then teach him! And work with him, build up loyalty and moral!


    EDIT: A image of a cpl of assets he did for the game this week:
    http://imgur.com/6tV2I

  11. #11
    Rockin lothera is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    This is incredibly interesting. A very good read!
    Should I find Last Dusk on steam, I will definitely play it :D

  12. #12
    Alpha Member Justei is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Quote Originally Posted by lothera View Post
    This is incredibly interesting. A very good read!
    Should I find Last Dusk on steam, I will definitely play it :D
    Hah thanks, it's not named Last Dusk though ^^ it's just a "working title" in other words, basically just what we call it while we are working ^^.

  13. #13
    Member Maestromind is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Out of curiosity what was the thinking behind using the Unity engine?

  14. #14
    Alpha Member Justei is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maestromind View Post
    Out of curiosity what was the thinking behind using the Unity engine?
    Well, seeing as we had been using graphics engines and coding stuff like physics, shaders, etc etc from scratch for a good while, we knew what it would take for us to make the game from scratch using just a graphics engine to start off with.

    So we started looking at game engines to see if anything would match our needs and had the potential and enough flexibility for us to use it (our biggest concern with Unity was that we did not have access to the core of the engine). But we then tried Unity out and found that out of everything that we could find it was the best tool for us to work with :).

  15. #15
    Custom Title Enabled George SS is offline
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    Re: A insight into the process of making a indie game.

    Although Unity is awesome , I like Torque for the ability of splitting server and client with ease , and could create secure multiplayer games without hassle. Plus Torque was meant for FPS more than MMO , so it would be easier for you.

    Unity can do that too .... if you buy the server plugin from totally different companies.

    However the main language of Torque is C# and C++ plus the Torque Language which is a derivation from C#(easy to learn).



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