Blizzard sues Valve

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Originally Posted by Ron

Blizzard needs to fuck off. lol

DoTA is the only reason anyone even play wc3 anymore. They don't have ownership over that shit anyway. DoTA was a custom player-made map. If anything, the guy who originally made DoTA should be the one suing Valve, not blizzard. lol



Thats bs. DoTA-Allstars != DoTA anyway.



lol, that may not be the case, but it is still totally true. I bought wc3 to play some of my old favorite custom maps online again but all there is are players hosting low-player DoTA games and bots hosting everything else because no one plays them.

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Some of the biggest DOTA communities are private PVPGN servers which don't require battle.net authentication; I've been playing DOTA for over 7 years on a pirated copy of WC3 which I've used on Over 30+ machines.

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Originally Posted by Rishwin

Some of the biggest DOTA communities are private PVPGN servers which don't require battle.net authentication; I've been playing DOTA for over 7 years on a pirated copy of WC3 which I've used on Over 30+ machines.

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that is true as well. wc3 isn't even worth buying anymore and if I could've gotten a refund because of how dead the servers were I would've lol. Really only bought a legit key to play online with a friend who knows nothing about private servers, otherwise I would've played them on eurobattle.net.

This whole case is stupid. They should've sued over this a long time ago, not right now. I think its just a stunt to slow down the release of DoTA2.

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Originally Posted by Repthon

I knew this was going to happen because blizzard is going to lose alot of money since no one will be buying war3 anymore to play dota. The name Dota was not made by blizzard neither or the skills all was made by icefrog.

Go suck dick blizzard!! War3 that i am playing dota on is pirate so no money for you hehe!!

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Doubt Blizz are making a lot of sales off WC3 really... -.-;

Off the old games (aka not WoW or SC2), the only one that is still very profitable, is D2. Not only does it lack a sequel, but it's unmatched in popularity/gameplay and it's very attractive to item sellers, so Blizzard makes quite a bit of cash on banning CD Keys etc.

New article made by Chewbecca for those who still dosen't understand. DotA2 – Who owns it? How it started and the situation now | RaGEZONE

The idea of them attempting to trademark DotA initially was really questionable, and everyone was wondering what Blizzard was going to do about it. The game is somewhat close to entering an open beta I imagine, so Blizzard decides to strike right before then. It makes sense. As far as anyone should be considered, the name is either public domain or belonging to Blizzard; certainly not owned or trademark-able by Valve.

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Originally Posted by timebomb

The idea of them attempting to trademark DotA initially was really questionable, and everyone was wondering what Blizzard was going to do about it. The game is somewhat close to entering an open beta I imagine, so Blizzard decides to strike right before then. It makes sense. As far as anyone should be considered, the name is either public domain or belonging to Blizzard; certainly not owned or trademark-able by Valve.

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But it is trademarked which is why Blizzard is putting court up.

Although Blizzard already have trademark via Dota-Allstars

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Originally Posted by Improved

New article made by Chewbecca for those who still dosen't understand. DotA2 – Who owns it? How it started and the situation now | RaGEZONE

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That was possibly one of the worst articles related to DOTA I've ever read. Not only is half of the actual relevant information missing, but the timeline is thrown off and it doesn't properly explain anything.

That article is misleading at best, and provides absolutely zero background information as a basis for context.

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Originally Posted by timebomb

The idea of them attempting to trademark DotA initially was really questionable, and everyone was wondering what Blizzard was going to do about it. The game is somewhat close to entering an open beta I imagine, so Blizzard decides to strike right before then. It makes sense. As far as anyone should be considered, the name is either public domain or belonging to Blizzard; certainly not owned or trademark-able by Valve.

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Why would Blizzard own it?

Icefrog who has been coding all of the latest updates for the past several years since Guinsoo left (who tbh didn't do a hell of alot) worked on both HoN and DOTA2, and without him DOTa actually wouldn't be what it is today.

You can argue till the cows come home that without Guinsoo DOTA may or may not be as popular, but the that's simply hearsay. What we 100% know for sure is that DOTA is the way it is today because of Icefrog and the changes and updates he has been doing.

If there is a single person who deserves the rights to DOTA, it would be either Eul or IceFrog, nobody else.

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Originally Posted by Improved

But it is trademarked which is why Blizzard is putting court up.

Although Blizzard already have trademark via Dota-Allstars

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They have that trademark only because they purchased the website.

RIOT games (who developed League of Legends with the help of Pendragon & Guinsoo) bought it from Pendragon, then sold it to Blizzard. You think it's a co-incidence that Blizzard filed the suit just weeks after purchasing the DOTA-Allstars website?

I wouldn't be surprised if Pendragon sold the website knowing full well that Blizzard would purchase it and use it to try and stop DOTA2.

I remember reading the message he put up on DOTA-Allstars the day he shut it down because IceFrog left to consult with S2 Games for Heroes of Newerth. He's a fucking sook, a pathetic crybaby, and he just wants to be head of a massive community again.

Blizzard being sneaky and gay all put aside. They do have a VALID argument regardless of how you all feel about it. :p

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Originally Posted by Vendaku~Metal

Blizzard being sneaky and gay all put aside. They do have a VALID argument regardless of how you all feel about it. :p

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Blizzard claiming ownership over DOTA is like Adobe claiming ownership over every flash game in existence.

Wc3 was the platform for it, just like a piece of paper is a platform for writing. If you write an entire movie script, does the paper company own the rights to your movie because it's written on their paper?

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Originally Posted by Rishwin

Blizzard claiming ownership over DOTA is like Adobe claiming ownership over every flash game in existence.

Wc3 was the platform for it, just like a piece of paper is a platform for writing. If you write an entire movie script, does the paper company own the rights to your movie because it's written on their paper?

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Wc3 may only be a platform for the concept of DOTA, but in the end of the day, DOTA is a modification for Wc3. If the game was never produced, dota would never have existed. Not to mention, "Defense of the ancients" is referencing the lore from Warcraft 3, which is owned and developed by Blizzard. Their argument is logical, and whether you want to admit it or not. They have more claim to DOTA than Valve certainly does. You silly austard :p.

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Originally Posted by Rishwin

Why would Blizzard own it?

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It really depends on Blizzard's ToS and ToU in this scenario. It is possible that, via their terms, they could (attempt to) claim ownership, and thus trademark rights, over all mods, including the names of the mods. Of course, this more than likely isn't the case, and I certainly am not going to go reading through legal documents for this occasion.

That said, it is also possible that the original name is, if initially legally handled correctly, trademarked to one of the original DotA owners.


The scenario that Valve is in is a bit sticky imo. It will be interesting to see what happens. At the very least, they surely do/should not have trademark rights.

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Originally Posted by Vendaku~Metal

Wc3 may only be a platform for the concept of DOTA, but in the end of the day, DOTA is a modification for Wc3. If the game was never produced, dota would never have existed. Not to mention, "Defense of the ancients" is referencing the lore from Warcraft 3, which is owned and developed by Blizzard. Their argument is logical, and whether you want to admit it or not. They have more claim to DOTA than Valve certainly does. You silly austard :p.

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The "ancients" that you protect are a tree and the frozen throne. In DOTA2, the tree is a well and the frozen throne is a fire pit.

None of that follows any sort of Blizzard lore.

With that gone, all you're doing is arguing that Blizzard owns the word "Ancients" as part of their IP. Which they do not.

Not to mention your argument can still very easily be applied to the Adobe & flash comparisons i made. Without flash, there would be no flash games. In addition, every "flash" game is using the word "flash" which actually IS a registered trademark.

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Originally Posted by timebomb

It really depends on Blizzard's ToS and ToU in this scenario. It is possible that, via their terms, they could (attempt to) claim ownership, and thus trademark rights, over all mods, including the names of the mods. Of course, this more than likely isn't the case, and I certainly am not going to go reading through legal documents for this occasion.

That said, it is also possible that the original name is, if initially legally handled correctly, trademarked to one of the original DotA owners.


The scenario that Valve is in is a bit sticky imo. It will be interesting to see what happens. At the very least, they surely do/should not have trademark rights.

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According to the exact suit Blizzard filled with the patents office - "Blizzard doesn't claim any ownership of Dota concepts, design, or the mod itself – only that the EULA states that the underlying game engine, art assets, et cetera are all still owned by Blizzard."

That makes no sense, because all of the sprites have been re-made from scratch, most now looking nothing like they originally did. The engine is completely different too. There is nothing there for them to claim ownership to.

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Originally Posted by Rishwin

The "ancients" that you protect are a tree and the frozen throne. In DOTA2, the tree is a well and the frozen throne is a fire pit.

None of that follows any sort of Blizzard lore.

With that gone, all you're doing is arguing that Blizzard owns the word "Ancients" as part of their IP. Which they do not.

Not to mention your argument can still very easily be applied to the Adobe & flash comparisons i made. Without flash, there would be no flash games. In addition, every "flash" game is using the word "flash" which actually IS a registered trademark.

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Still. DOTA2 originated from DOTA quite obviously and paved the giant metaphorical road. Now read this.

And remember, my argument here is that Blizzard's argument is valid. Lol

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Originally Posted by Blizzards Argument

Blizzard And The Warcraft World Editor
7. Blizzard provides to every purchaser of Warcraft III a powerful and fullfeatured
software program known as the "World Editor." The World Editor enables
members of the public to use Warcraft III's underlying software and graphical art assets,
including the character art, sounds and terrain models of the underlying game to create
custom items, maps, characters, environments and campaigns (also known as a "modification" or "mod"). A user also can use the World Editor to create custom artificial intelligence scripts for computer-controlled units, change the placement of the camera, and modify the strength or abilities of individual units. Once a Warcraft III mod is complete, the World Editor permits users to save the mod as a small computer file that can be shared with other players to allow them to play the mod using their own Warcraft III software. Mod files made with the World Editor cannot be played without first installing and loading a copy of Blizzard's Warcraft III game software.

8. Use of the World Editor (and Warcraft III) is subject to the terms of an
End User License Agreement ("EULA") between Blizzard and users of Warcraft III. The EULA sets forth the relative rights and responsibilities of the parties regarding their use of Warcraft III and the World Editor. The EULA is displayed to users during the installation of Warcraft III and the World Editor. All users of Warcraft III and the World Editor must consent to the EULA by clicking on a button labeled "Accept." If the user declines to assent, he or she may click a button labeled "Decline," at which point the installation will terminate, denying access to the user. If a user declines to accept the EULA, he or she may request and obtain a full refund from Blizzard of the purchase price.

9.
the EULA, a limited, non-exclusive license to install Warcraft III and the World Editor
on his or her computer, use the game for noncommercial entertainment purposes, and
distribute Warcraft III mods to other users via the Battle.net game service. Warcraft III's
EULA clearly specifies that all underlying intellectual property rights in and to Warcraft
III are owned by Blizzard: "All title, ownership rights, and intellectual property rights in
and to the Program and any and all copies thereof (including, but not limited to, any
titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch
phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audiovisual
effects, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, and
`applets' incorporated into the Program) are owned by Blizzard or its licensors."

10. The EULA prohibits the use of Warcraft III or the World Editor for any
commercial purpose without Blizzard's prior written consent. In addition, the EULA
restricts any distribution of "New Materials [defined as modifications of Warcraft III
created using the World Editor] on a stand-alone basis... through any and all distribution
channels, including, but not limited to, retail sales and on-line electronic distribution
without the express written consent of Blizzard."
DotA
11. Among the most popular Warcraft III mods is "Defense of the Ancients,"
commonly referred to, and known by consumers, as "DotA," "Dota," and "DOTA"
(collectively, "DotA"). DotA is a Warcraft III scenario (or "map") that allows players to
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play a version of Warcraft III in which they compete against each other using various
Warcraft III characters, spells, and items. The title "Defense of the Ancients," or
"DotA," is a reference to the Warcraft III characters known as the "Ancients," since the
primary objective of the game is to either defend or destroy (depending upon which team
the player is on) the Ancient known as the Tree of Life.
12. DotA first was developed in 2003 using Blizzard's World Editor. Over
the years, under license from Blizzard, numerous versions or iterations of DotA have
been distributed to the public, including the popular version "DotA AllStars"
(collectively, the "DotA Mods").
13.
independently of Warcraft III. From a technical standpoint, the DotA mods are small
computer files that use the Warcraft III "extension" .w3x. The DotA Mods cannot be
opened, accessed, played, or used in any manner without the user having first installed
Warcraft III and assented to the Warcraft III EULA. From the user's standpoint, the
DotA Mods are Warcraft III scenarios, or "maps," that users can loaded into Warcraft III
and enable them to play Warcraft III in a slightly different manner from the original
game. The DotA Mods use the same game engine, graphical elements, artwork, sound
recordings and user interface of Warcraft III. All of the elements of the DotA Mods,
including the heroes, items, leveling system, abilities, spells, fighting mechanics,
environments, and structures, are from Warcraft III. All or nearly all of the models,
textures, animations, ability or spell effects, and icons are from Warcraft III. Further,
many of the names, sounds, and character icons of the heroes in the DotA Mods are the
same as those used by Warcraft III characters. All of these elements were utilized by the
DotA Mods under license from Blizzard and pursuant to the EULA.
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14. Since its release in 2003, the DotA Mods have been downloaded and
played by hundreds of thousands of people throughout the United States and the world
via the Warcraft III game software and Blizzard's Battle.net system. The DotA Mods can
be played only after a user has installed Warcraft III onto his or her computer, assented to
the EULA, launched the game software (at which time the user is presented with the
Warcraft III game screen and Blizzard logo), and entered Blizzard's "Battle.net "
multiplayer online system. At all times, the DotA Mods have been marketed, advertised,
and promoted as Warcraft III scenarios that require purchase and installation of Warcraft
III and knowledge of Warcraft III's gameplay mechanics, user interface, and on-screen
display. The fact that the DotA Mods are "mods" of Warcraft III and that to be played
the user must first purchase Warcraft III is well-known and well-publicized throughout
the United States and the world.

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Originally Posted by Rishwin

According to the exact suit Blizzard filled with the patents office - "Blizzard doesn't claim any ownership of Dota concepts, design, or the mod itself – only that the EULA states that the underlying game engine, art assets, et cetera are all still owned by Blizzard."

That makes no sense, because all of the sprites have been re-made from scratch, most now looking nothing like they originally did. The engine is completely different too. There is nothing there for them to claim ownership to.

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How doesn't what I said make sense? I gave two plausible options, while also saying that I personally was not going to go look specifically at the terms. I see that you did; so thanks, I suppose - that clears that up.

As I said in the second part of my post, if the original creator of the mod correctly trademarked the DotA mod, then he should have legal rights to the name, correct? Which brings up the wonders of the reasoning behind Blizzard's lawsuit, as it seems that they should perhaps not be meddling with this.