Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
"but RPG stands for "Role Playing Game". Technically, you are playing the role of Link, so therefore Zelda could be considered and RPG"
By this definition, every game that has a playable character, including First Person Shooters, is an RPG. This would make the term meaningless. Since the term "Role Playing Game" originates from pencil and paper games like Dungeons and Dragons, one would have to make the definition work from similarities to that type of game. Where the line is drawn isn't clear, though.
To me, Zelda is an adventure game with very light RPG elements. In fact, the only thing RPG-ish in most Zelda games is the increasing of your life meter as you progress through the game. There's no experience points from each enemy you kill. There's no base stats for your character determining how much damage his attacks do and whether ot not the enemy evades his attacks. There's pretty much nothing lft to random chance in combat or adventuring. These are all common features of pretty much every pencil and paper RPG system in existance.
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
No you are not playing a role. If you play a role then you decide how to play it, you would decide on whether you want to save the princess or not or anything like that, there are no choices, you simply follow his story, and there is nothing that would change that story in any kind of way.
Quote:
Typically, gameplay centers around one or more avatars, with quantized characteristics that evolve over the course of the game, and take the place of the gamer's own skill in determining game outcomes.
Zelda is completely pre-defined, hence you don't play a role, but you merely follow the story.
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
I'm pretty sure the only real RPG on the N64 was Quest 64.
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
I believe it was the only traditional RPG yes, there are a few others that have RPG elements though and thus could be defined as them.
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
Zelda is classed as an RPG, and not all RPG's let you makes choices. I don't remember many at all in Diablo II, I don't even remember any game breaking choices in Final Fantasy 7.
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
You give me 3 reputable sources who class it as a RPG, and i will give you about 50 who class it as a adventure.
In Zelda you play no role, there is no choice at all, whether that be in the story or in the character development, something that you do have in Diablo 2 and FF7. In Diablo 2 you can modify a character completely to your liking, to you playstyle, besides being able to only max a few skills, you can also use weapon, armory etc to what you like, do you prefer some more damage or do you want life leech, or perhaps better resistance etc etc. In FF7 you have choices in the items you want to use aswell, do you prefer to have a extra skill on hand, or do you want to boost your life/mana, then what modifiers do you want to use with what skills etc, and then ofcourse you have a choice in characters.
Anyway i'll give you 3 sources on Zelda.
1. GameSpot classes it as a Fantasy Action Adventure (both Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time)
2. IGN classes it as a Action Adventure (both Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time)
Now for the third i want some drum rolls please...
3. Nintendo classes the following games:
Twilight Princess: Action, Adventure
A Link to the Past: Adventure
The Legend of Zelda: Adventure
The Adventures of Link: Action, Adventure
Ocarina of Time: Adventure
Phantom Hourglass: Action, Adventure
Other games are not listed as they are not available (these are obviously Wii/DS games + downloadable games on the Wii)
Now it's quite simple, Zelda is not a RPG, by any standard it's not a RPG, if you still wish to believe you can change the story in it or customize something, then go ahead and believe that, but the fact is that it's not a RPG.
Any further crap from people claiming it's a RPG will be deleted as i can't be arsed to continue this completely useless discussion.
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
maybe you should have just recomended games based on what the OP said rather than the genre he mentioned?
but back on topic i can heartily recomend banjoo kazooie and conkers since its quite possibly the most epic game ever created
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GohanSSJ
You give me 3 reputable sources who class it as a RPG, and i will give you about 50 who class it as a adventure.
In Zelda you play no role, there is no choice at all, whether that be in the story or in the character development, something that you do have in Diablo 2 and FF7. In Diablo 2 you can modify a character completely to your liking, to you playstyle, besides being able to only max a few skills, you can also use weapon, armory etc to what you like, do you prefer some more damage or do you want life leech, or perhaps better resistance etc etc. In FF7 you have choices in the items you want to use aswell, do you prefer to have a extra skill on hand, or do you want to boost your life/mana, then what modifiers do you want to use with what skills etc, and then ofcourse you have a choice in characters.
Anyway i'll give you 3 sources on Zelda.
1. GameSpot classes it as a Fantasy Action Adventure (both Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time)
2. IGN classes it as a Action Adventure (both Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time)
Now for the third i want some drum rolls please...
3. Nintendo classes the following games:
Twilight Princess: Action, Adventure
A Link to the Past: Adventure
The Legend of Zelda: Adventure
The Adventures of Link: Action, Adventure
Ocarina of Time: Adventure
Phantom Hourglass: Action, Adventure
Other games are not listed as they are not available (these are obviously Wii/DS games + downloadable games on the Wii)
Now it's quite simple, Zelda is not a RPG, by any standard it's not a RPG, if you still wish to believe you can change the story in it or customize something, then go ahead and believe that, but the fact is that it's not a RPG.
Any further crap from people claiming it's a RPG will be deleted as i can't be arsed to continue this completely useless discussion.
You play the Role of Link. As in every other game you play the role of the person you are controlling.
I myself, an avid Zelda fan, do class it as an RPG. I choose different weapons for different circumstances, I perform various different quests in order to recieve better equipment and I let my self totally immerse into the game.
PS - Any deleted posts claiming Zelda is an RPG will be undeleted and you will be infracted.
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
Closure it is then.
DTB you need to understand 1 thing, i don't give a shit what you think, i'm the moderator of this section, if you have a problem with that take it up with MentaL or Exy, do NOT throw your threats around here. Incase you forgot, threatening a moderator is against the rules, those rules apply to you aswell.
So i suggest you read the rules and accept that you are not only continueing a offtopic discussion after i told you all to drop it when posting crystal clear evidence to back up my claim, but also for again threatening a moderator.
I will also inform Exy for this abusive behaviour since it's completely unacceptable for a Smod to behave in such a poor manner.
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
Yeah - your right. Enough threatening.
Banned.
For your information also - I am a Senior Moderator. You answer to me. When I give an order you follow it. Not the other way around.
Got that?
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DonTonberry
You play the Role of Link. As in every other game you play the role of the person you are controlling.
I myself, an avid Zelda fan, do class it as an RPG. I choose different weapons for different circumstances, I perform various different quests in order to recieve better equipment and I let my self totally immerse into the game.
PS - Any deleted posts claiming Zelda is an RPG will be undeleted and you will be infracted.
If I remember correctly, don't you need the equipment you unlock to further the story, thus, you don't have the choice, you're forced into that, whether you feel immersed or not does not matter, doesn't have to be an RPG to be immersive, as Zelda proved to you, you weren't immersed in an RPG, just a very well played Action-Adventure game that you felt you were part of, you made no choices, you were immersed like a reader is with a book.
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
you were not required to:
do bottle quests
obtain the eye of truth
get the giants knife
collect the gold skulta medals
there were plenty of options in zelda, it had an inventory there arent many n64 games you can say that about
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
I guess it's time for a professionals input into this so called argument.
As a games designer I have answers to questions and solutions to several holes that have been put forth in the discussion here and now I will show you them, rip them to pieces and give you an adequate conclusion that if argued against would just prove that you (who ever it is arguing against it, in this case gohan.) is uneducated in this subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GohanSSJ
No it's not. You play a pretty much linear game where everything is pre-destined and no customizations can be made, hence it's not a role-playing game.
customisation are replaced by a set amount of items that an be changed at will to deal with what ever situation, these items can be there for how ever long you play it i.e. whenever I play zelda I always use the red tunic.
all rpgs, whether it be console, pc or otherwise don't have any true choice and are linear in design, the choices you feel you are making are merely the illusion of choice that is brought into the design so that the player feels he/she has more control over those aspects of the game unlike in most other games.
pre destined stories and results are inherent in all rpgs as the entire point to them is to play a role within said story as if you were the character him/her self.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GohanSSJ
You collect cars and upgrades in the Need for Speeds, doesn't make them RPG's either.
Zelda is simply not a RPG, it's not a debateble discussion as it's a fact, it simply can't be defined as a RPG as it has none of it's key elements.
it has all of the key elements. character growth is done via the story just as in all rpgs, rather than levels you gain hearts and specific permanent items that aid you through said story. and if you've ever played the games you would notice that the further you got in the game you faced stronger and stronger opponents yet somehow you can still fight toe to toe with them, just because stats are not shown does not mean that the characters strength does not improve. in the case of zelda stats are replaced the the players personal skill at controlling link and figuring out the weakness of each enemy, this maintains the strategy element of rpgs but converts it into a real time event rather than one in which you have menus of supposed choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GohanSSJ
Zelda is NOT a RPG, i don't care what you think or what you say, there is not a single definition that can be applied to the Zelda games that would make it a RPG.
A RPG requires that you can make choices, whether that be how the story ends, how your character develops or even item choices. In Zelda everything is pre-defined, yes you can choose to use item over the other, however it changes nothing, a item doesn't get better, you don't get better with it, you don't get a higher bow skill or whatever, Zelda is also linear, you can get 100 gamers to do the game and they can all finish the game the exact same way, same amount of life, same items etc.
Zelda is not a RPG, just that simple, if you call Zelda a RPG then you can call Mario a RPG aswell, or Banjo or anything like that.
Now you could keep argueing about it, but it won't change a thing, Zelda has never been a RPG, and never will be.
once again, the choices you make in an rpg all lead to a single place eventually because the choices themselves are pre-determined in the design, true choice in the game would allow you to , as you said, not save the princess if you didn't want to but the purpose of rpgs is progression through the story and would create a rebound effect in which the game would never progress and you would fail it.
choice in games are false and an illusion. almost all rpgs make gamers end it in the same way but due to side quests it gives the player more options through the illusion of choice as to how they finish it, in ocarina of time there is supposed upgrade to the master sword, I myself never found it but a few people say they have, it gives you extra abilities during combat but is generally unnecessary to finish the game much like any extra item you may get during any other rpg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GohanSSJ
No you are not playing a role. If you play a role then you decide how to play it, you would decide on whether you want to save the princess or not or anything like that, there are no choices, you simply follow his story, and there is nothing that would change that story in any kind of way.
Zelda is completely pre-defined, hence you don't play a role, but you merely follow the story.
I once again point out my previous statements about choice.
Roles within games are another illusion of choice, it's in fact very possible to play zelda differently from other people but not in the way of puzzles or of story progression since as I've said before those things are linear in the design and as such don't change due to the player.
what is different is the way people use their characters. I've seen people playing ocarina of time who mostly agro enemies an use spells in order to defeat large numbers of them at once, whereas other players prefer to go one on one with the enemies and defeat them as such, some players choose to use the main weapon of sword and shield while others may use the hammer, or in the case of windwaker any random weapon that their enemy may have dropped, in the case of twilight princess there's also the option of using a giant ball and chain.
rpgs such as final fantasy, dungeons and dragons (pen and paper), earthbound etc. all have linear bases but once again give the illusion of choice, dungeons and dragons however is controlled by someone taking the role of dungeon master which in effect is the story of the game and decides what things are required for it's progression rather than it being built into the game itself, the linear aspect is still in built to it's design though.
MMORPGs are the most false of the rpg series as they allow progression through the sole element of gaining more equipment and improved stats and have almost completely removed the story element that is required of any good rpg.
in conclusion you are all wrong.
The Legend of Zelda series, bar the original on the NES is a multi genre game with elements and aspects of Action, Adventure and RPG.
I hope you've all learned a valuable lesson here and for once I agree with DTBs actions, just this once.
On topic, I've searched for a long time for a good classic rpg on the NES to no avail, paper mario is the closest thing you'll get to it's traditional menu driven design and zelda is by far the best story driven on the console and is better than most other rpgs on other consoles.
If you really want a good RPG then I suggest you look back in time to the days of the SNES where game play was more important than graphics and stories that seemed so very simple had complex plot twists and growth.
-Flameingskull AKA Gavriel - Games Designer - Salford University
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Flameingskull
I guess it's time for a professionals input into this so called argument.
As a games designer I have answers to questions and solutions to several holes that have been put forth in the discussion here and now I will show you them, rip them to pieces and give you an adequate conclusion that if argued against would just prove that you (who ever it is arguing against it, in this case gohan.) is uneducated in this subject.
customisation are replaced by a set amount of items that an be changed at will to deal with what ever situation, these items can be there for how ever long you play it i.e. whenever I play zelda I always use the red tunic.
all rpgs, whether it be console, pc or otherwise don't have any true choice and are linear in design, the choices you feel you are making are merely the illusion of choice that is brought into the design so that the player feels he/she has more control over those aspects of the game unlike in most other games.
pre destined stories and results are inherent in all rpgs as the entire point to them is to play a role within said story as if you were the character him/her self.
it has all of the key elements. character growth is done via the story just as in all rpgs, rather than levels you gain hearts and specific permanent items that aid you through said story. and if you've ever played the games you would notice that the further you got in the game you faced stronger and stronger opponents yet somehow you can still fight toe to toe with them, just because stats are not shown does not mean that the characters strength does not improve. in the case of zelda stats are replaced the the players personal skill at controlling link and figuring out the weakness of each enemy, this maintains the strategy element of rpgs but converts it into a real time event rather than one in which you have menus of supposed choice.
once again, the choices you make in an rpg all lead to a single place eventually because the choices themselves are pre-determined in the design, true choice in the game would allow you to , as you said, not save the princess if you didn't want to but the purpose of rpgs is progression through the story and would create a rebound effect in which the game would never progress and you would fail it.
choice in games are false and an illusion. almost all rpgs make gamers end it in the same way but due to side quests it gives the player more options through the illusion of choice as to how they finish it, in ocarina of time there is supposed upgrade to the master sword, I myself never found it but a few people say they have, it gives you extra abilities during combat but is generally unnecessary to finish the game much like any extra item you may get during any other rpg.
I once again point out my previous statements about choice.
Roles within games are another illusion of choice, it's in fact very possible to play zelda differently from other people but not in the way of puzzles or of story progression since as I've said before those things are linear in the design and as such don't change due to the player.
what is different is the way people use their characters. I've seen people playing ocarina of time who mostly agro enemies an use spells in order to defeat large numbers of them at once, whereas other players prefer to go one on one with the enemies and defeat them as such, some players choose to use the main weapon of sword and shield while others may use the hammer, or in the case of windwaker any random weapon that their enemy may have dropped, in the case of twilight princess there's also the option of using a giant ball and chain.
rpgs such as final fantasy, dungeons and dragons (pen and paper), earthbound etc. all have linear bases but once again give the illusion of choice, dungeons and dragons however is controlled by someone taking the role of dungeon master which in effect is the story of the game and decides what things are required for it's progression rather than it being built into the game itself, the linear aspect is still in built to it's design though.
MMORPGs are the most false of the rpg series as they allow progression through the sole element of gaining more equipment and improved stats and have almost completely removed the story element that is required of any good rpg.
in conclusion you are all wrong.
The Legend of Zelda series, bar the original on the NES is a multi genre game with elements and aspects of Action, Adventure and RPG.
I hope you've all learned a valuable lesson here and for once I agree with DTBs actions, just this once.
On topic, I've searched for a long time for a good classic rpg on the NES to no avail, paper mario is the closest thing you'll get to it's traditional menu driven design and zelda is by far the best story driven on the console and is better than most other rpgs on other consoles.
If you really want a good RPG then I suggest you look back in time to the days of the SNES where game play was more important than graphics and stories that seemed so very simple had complex plot twists and growth.
-Flameingskull AKA Gavriel - Games Designer - Salford University
Well i guess thats sorted...... :clap_1:
Re: [N64] Are there any good RPGs for it?
Got bored again so *Throws in my 2 pence*
Zelda has always been classed as an action adventure O.o... always leaned more to the hack and slash side aswell.
The basis of a RPG is evolving your character which doesn't happen in Zelda games, you just gain new equipment...
Hearts/mana increase as evolution of the charcter...
If we applied the same principles then Megaman is an RPG or "big lot o' health" in unreal tournament the same then? ~_~
Everyone is getting obsessed with the words "Role playing game", it's just a term from the D&D days where you imagined yourself as the character as in you are playing the role...
Your reasons are that you play as a character that follows a story and grow as a whatever, isn't that 90% of games?
Sorry but a few cutscene's are not the same character growth to be classed as an RPG.
Sorry but I'd class Zelda as a Hack and Slash before I'd class it as an RPG...
Anyway back on topic, there is only a few good games in total for the N64 really with no real good RPG games, few good action adventure and platformers but if you want RPG then you need try a different console...
Almost all others have at least one outstanding RPG =/
Crash
