ooo, I was thinking that, I might continue with protoss untill i get enough experience and knowledge to switch, I'm reading Protoss builds but Its hard to remember but I'll get there.Originally Posted by DonTonberry
ooo, I was thinking that, I might continue with protoss untill i get enough experience and knowledge to switch, I'm reading Protoss builds but Its hard to remember but I'll get there.
Actually compared to the other races, zerg's late game is half good half bad, no matter what, a 200/200 army from either a toss or a terran will beat a 200/200 zerg army, some reason are the fact that zerg needs twice as many drones and hatches to maintain unit production that can infact, make the flow of units happen in the late game, i do agree at the amount of units i can pump out are sometimes ridiculous, but there are many things a terran can do to stop that, if they let me macro for 15 minutes straight with no drops/attack, ill have enough minerals to spawn waves of 12 ultras 1 after 1.
What you need to take into account is what those pros are able to do, 99% of the diamond league, not of sc2, only has about 100 APM, this limits what a diamond leaguer can do, compared to what for example boxer or fruit dealer can do. now add in the fact that zerg is the most APM intensive race, it's not that easy to pull off what those high caliber zergs can.
anther point is that there are still strategies vs zerg that are still extermely hard to handle, a 4 gate with ap roxy pylon will wreck zerg 90% of the time, 5 zelot sentry timing attack will too, a forge 3 gate timing will aswell, Zerg only has an advantage if the games reaches the 10+ minute mark, look at IdrA for example, at the 15 minute mark he can easily reach 200/200, that's extermly hard to do for any regular player.
And also know so many timings for your own defense, while other races use them offensily, zerg is a reaction race, i scout 4 gate? make more lings/roaches, i scout a fast thor on lost temple, instantly get creep on my ledge and get some roaches out.
---------- Post added at 07:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 AM ----------
Metalopolis - Omer vs. Hakeem - Replays - SC2Replayed.com
That's a ZvP i played vs a kid in my school, he's around 1800 toss
Lost Temple - Omer vs. chobothx - Replays - SC2Replayed.com
That's a ZvT with an example of handeling a thor drop.
The ZvP is an example of how strong can get if u let them macro for around 15 minutes
the ZvT is an example of how easy it is to abuse zerg on some maps, this can also be done on delta quadrant.
That's quite literally exactly what zerg is meant to be like, straight from the developers. Your units are more cost effective, and they balance around cost, not food. Couple that with being able to produce units faster than any race, including protoss with warpgates (even with chrono), voila.
You forget that they're pulling that off against someone as good as them. Your play does not need to be as polished as a pro's play to pull off their builds in ladder. If you can't execute it exactly like they do, it doesn't matter. Your comment goes for your opponent as well. If your opponent's APM is around 100, you're probably not going to have to deal with the multi-pronged cloaked banshee harass while dealing with a bioball at your front and a few seconds later a medivac drop in one of your expos.
And for what it's worth, zerg isn't more APM intensive, it's more APM available. Most of the zerg mechanics require less APM than the other races. It's different, it's not harder. Most protoss and terrans at high level use quite a bit more APM than zergs of the same level. This is just in the many replays I've seen. Sure, there's more you can do than protoss, that just makes decision making more important, but it doesn't necessarily need more APM to do it.
For instance, playing zerg in a fun game with some friends as an off race when my APM was only ~60 with toss, I was sitting at 90 APM with zerg because I had shit that was obvious that I could be doing, and I didn't even know the zerg tech tree very well.
1. It's not any more difficult to handle than it is for any other race. You act like these strategies are a magic "do this and you are impossibly difficult to beat." You only need to defend as well as your opponent executes his play. Most toss can't even time a 4-gate properly. Those who can, probably can't micro the units effectively or make the composition cost effective (massing the """""""counter""""""" to your units is NOT the way to do this), and those who can do that aren't sitting at 300 APM microing everything perfectly to minimize damage, otherwise you should be at the GSL. These strategies are heavily limited by the player's ability to execute the different aspects of them. You also don't mention that these are only really strong on some maps in certain positions. The 2300+ tosses I was talking to the other day said that they're favoring nexus-first FE play recently, though I haven't seen much of it, but that it was easy to open into 6-gates and contain zergs and defend against 4-gate and 1-base zerg aggression with no problem. You hardly ever see 4-gates at a high level these days.
Further, the way bnet matches games accounts for trends in play (as in, Bob's PvZ matchup has a 60% winrate) as well as their MMR, so you're being matched up with a player you two have roughly a 50/50 chance to win, meaning his execution is going to almost always match your ability to defend it. That's the point of the bayesian infererences being made by the matchmaking system. It doesn't hold for metagame changes, which says zerg is trampling on everyone else right now, so most likely you're sitting at a 51 or 52% chance in ZvP and ZvT from ladder matchups.
2. We've seen plenty of zerg play lately that is more aggressive than protoss aggression and terran aggression. They seem to do fine, so I guess it's just your play. IdrA was the one that said early zerg aggression was too easy to beat, but notice he got his ass fucking handed to him by fast zerg aggression. I LOVE the irony, it's HILARIOUS.
3. He gets armies that big that fast because of how he expands and he knows when to drone. It's high risk. It's not like his magic 200+ apm magically makes that possible.
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