Emus vs true files / Windows vs Linux

[Zorno]

Hi guys,

i just ask mahself what is going on here. There are so many files found in the last few weeks and everyone talks about "real leeched files" but most of them are for Windows with MSSQL database. Im pretty sure that most of them are something like emulators from chinese forums and not real files because 90% of the companys i know use Linux servers.

Also people starting emu projects here mostly use MS stuff. Now mah question: Why ? Windows is useless for live servers, sure it is easier to use visual studio to program stuff but why not program them for Linux and MySQL ? It whould not only safe some ressources but also safe some money for the servers itself. ( also MS-SQL is much more complicated than My-SQL )

So i hope we can discuss this situation to show some people what can be done with Linux and for what we need windows etc.

oh and btw ... merry xmas

greetings
Zorno

[MentaL]

[Manova]

Nonono. You got it all wrong. Games are usually based on MSSQL DBs, thus Windows Servers. Linux for Webservers are however common.

My opinion on what's the best to have when running a pserver, vague:

1. Sourcecode: I mean, the possiblities are vast, if you have people that know what they're doing.
2. Emulation: Talking about a proper emulator that is.
3. Server Files: You're really sandboxed, considering there is a limit on what you can do.

[Crypticus]

Hi guys,

i just ask mahself what is going on here. There are so many files found in the last few weeks and everyone talks about "real leeched files" but most of them are for Windows with MSSQL database.
Many MMORPGs from Korea use Windows/MSSQL. No surprise there.

Im pretty sure that most of them are something like emulators from chinese forums and not real files because 90% of the companys i know use Linux servers.
Refer to comment above: funny though, since corporate culture is generally more wary of "open-source" nature software.

Also people starting emu projects here mostly use MS stuff. Now mah question: Why ?
The question should be, why not?

Windows is useless for live servers, sure it is easier to use visual studio to program stuff but why not program them for Linux and MySQL ? It whould not only safe some ressources but also safe some money for the servers itself. ( also MS-SQL is much more complicated than My-SQL )
Microsoft is an established monopoly that isn't going anywhere soon. Corel, on the other hand? I don't know.

So i hope we can discuss this situation to show some people what can be done with Linux and for what we need windows etc.
Linux for niche cases, like blur legal lines. Windows is all-purpose, driver support is top-notch considering scale of use.

oh and btw ... merry xmas
Merry xmas to you too

greetings
Zorno

Replies in red.

[Seymour]

I can`t see in windows bad system =)

[Zorno]

I can`t see in windows bad system =)

Its not bad but in my opinion its more limited ( when we talk for servers only ) and it always use a GUI which eats ressources. Never seen a windows based server with commandline only ( uhm ... dunno if there is one at all )

Maybe i should say that most companies i know dont do game servers. They have servers for office software.

@Manova:

Source is always great and in most cases you are not limited to a specific OS with that ( if its c++ and it uses no exotic libs it doesnt matter at all if you compile it on linux or windows or whatever ) but knowing what you do in that case is hard ( because reading of thousands of lines takes ages )
And yes, real ( leaked ) files are more or less the worst case due to their restrictions but we can learn from them


@Crypticus:

Uhm i didnt understand that "blur lgal lines" thingy

[Crypticus]

Quite simple... Windows is pretty bullet-proof; but because it's so humungous, the potential for a hole somewhere is much larger.
Different tools for different purposes: all-in-all, unless you're doing something which may (or may not be) borderline illegal - Windows is fine.

[Zorno]

Quite simple... Windows is pretty bullet-proof; but because it's so humungous, the potential for a hole somewhere is much larger.
Different tools for different purposes: all-in-all, unless you're doing something which may (or may not be) borderline illegal - Windows is fine.

Hmm. True. I think it depends a bit on what you need it for. In mah eyes its too expensive for what it does. Lets see it in the situation of Lineage 2 ( L2J Server based on Java ).
Its pretty much the same installing it on Windows and Linux because its a java server but when you check the performance needs and the costs of both OS, im pretty sure Linux is the better choice. If its a project using MS-SQL, then you ( if you dont know how to tweak wine to run the MS-SQL service ) need windows but here its mysql.
Mah test on a standalone running server ( 0 Players, full geodata installed ):

Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise x64:

1,6 GB RAM usage
CPU load 2% ( i think 1% is java and the other 1 is the system )
Price of the server OS between 1300.- € and 1900.- € ( found on google shopping, dont know the US$ price but its more than € )
if running on a rented server in germany: 24.99 € per month


Ubuntu 10.04 LTS x64:

780 MB RAM usage
CPU load 1% ( used no GUI, just plain commandline )
Price of the OS: 0.- € ( 0 US$ )
if running on a rented server in germany: 14.99 € per month


So i guess its one of the Servers that should be run on Linux. Im sure there are some that runs better on Windows like Terraria Server ( which is run under Mono on Linux )

Windows is all-purpose, driver support is top-notch

Uhm ... drivers ? for a server ? All it needs is a network and ide/sata/scsi driver Dunno what you need more drivers for. Normally a server is just a small computer with a networkpluf and a harddrive. No Sound, no graphics, no keyboard, no mouse, no printer, no other stuff

[Manova]

Your computer's parts won't work without drivers for all the parts needed. Also, graphical units of any class are actually needed, to visualize what's physically going on on the machine. You'd need to be able to see what's going on. How else would you be working on a server?

[Zorno]

Your computer's parts won't work without drivers for all the parts needed. Also, graphical units of any class are actually needed, to visualize what's physically going on on the machine. You'd need to be able to see what's going on. How else would you be working on a server?

ssh tunnel ? I know that mah 4 servers dont have anything plugged in but a networkcable and a harddisk. For what does it need a graphic driver ? There is no graphic card in them. Oh and they dont need any because i wont drive 600 km for looking on a monitor where i see the same like at home All they need are libraries and yes, here are some difficulties for getting them. Thats why i said that some exotic ones are not for linux but when a good programmer writes a server for linux, you cant use the lib for win so its pretty the same, it just depends on the programmers.
( Yes i know that some servers have monitors but remember, its a server not a standard PC ! It doesnt need a good graphic card and almost all cards have linux drivers, at least the nvidia ones. )

[Manova]

Whatever you find practical. Not really that biased about this linux vs windows thing you got going.

[Crypticus]

Inb4ImBored:

Manova brings up a good point.
Look, while it's possible to hook up my rig to the server remotely...
I don't like the idea of the server hanging there, and me casting doubts on the network connection.

...
Uhm ... drivers ? for a server ? All it needs is a network and ide/sata/scsi driver Dunno what you need more drivers for. Normally a server is just a small computer with a networkpluf and a harddrive. No Sound, no graphics, no keyboard, no mouse, no printer, no other stuff

Network and HDD drivers? How about chipsets and other proprietary drivers for parts manufacturers make?

Linux doesn't have access to so much of it. It's either you have it, or reverse-engineered.
No comparisons there. That's the benefit of being a monopoly: it sets a standard everyone wants to follow.
But like you said,

I think it depends a bit on what you need it for

It's probably best if you review the "pricing" though.
Seems biased. Really.

[Seymour]

Well,some servers (or emulators of them) wrights to windows
Yeah,it eats more ram,but if you will run such server on *nix,this will need Wine and will`nt be diferent in `eating ram`
So,every server has oun base and we can`t change it..

[Zorno]

Well,some servers (or emulators of them) wrights to windows
Yeah,it eats more ram,but if you will run such server on *nix,this will need Wine and will`nt be diferent in `eating ram`
So,every server has oun base and we can`t change it..

Yep. On open source emus we can change it but tha depends on the programmers skill i guess. Sure, nobody whould change it when he doesnt care what OS he/she can use for it.

@Crypticus:

there are only a few exotic chipsets that are not supported on linux, i dont even know which ones are not. I successfully installed linux on all mah computers ( i use linux even for mah home PCs ) and never had any problem getting drivers. Only the wi-fi on mah laptop doesnt work but who needs a wireless connection when it has a plug for a cable and build in UMTS. I can only talk about Mandriva and Ubuntu here. Suse never worked on a single PC here and i didnt test any others.


Hmm. Now that i think about the whole thing, i have seen an OS/2 server some time ago. Never seen someone using this old OS before

[Crypticus]

Reality is kind of harsh, but the "few exotic chipsets" are just combinations you have not tested.
There are many computers in this world. Rhetorically speaking, is the sky blue?


Different things, for different purposes:

A completely secure platform with no backdoors of any kind whatsoever? Follow in the NSA's footsteps.

A mobile OS on a different processor like ARM - get Android, a derivative of Linux.

I'm not saying don't use Linux at all (far from that), but starting a thread to extol the "benefits" of Linux...

Time is money. We're not from No-Such-Agency, and won't need to harden the OS to such an extent.
We'll just make sure things - like staff watching porn, browsing shady websites on the server; are managed.

A sensible person would accept the fact that "potential" is as the name suggests; "potential". Nothing more, nothing less.

[Seymour]

Yep. On open source emus we can change it but tha depends on the programmers skill i guess. Sure, nobody whould change it when he doesnt care what OS he/she can use for it.

Not always we have open source,compiled,I mean,so..
Everybody design for what platform he/she() will write it by their own..