realistic pikeman II

[Continuation from Old thread]
hi hi everyone, so like all the time, i tryed to update the original post but im unable to do that cuz is to old so bob, maybe u can mix it and reopen the old one. So now, i discovered that i cant be away from 3D and sadly from pt >_<, but im back and hopely will finish this project, i just started to scratch the armor, so i will keep updating this threat to show u how is it going, enjoy:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3431/pikeman.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Problem here is poly count, too many and PT will lag like crazy, or your model will not load at all.

Looks sweet though.

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Originally Posted by sungam3d

Problem here is poly count, too many and PT will lag like crazy, or your model will not load at all.

Looks sweet though.

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Heuheu i would say almost the same xd.. But i think he did it more in a fanart intention..

But if you try to put an mesh with too many polys, it just doesn't appear in game (becomes invisible)..

But if you lower the polys and make the glove/armlet part (or combine it with an existent) would look great in game =D .. And since you are making it, its easier to add selective effects (aging-like, mix-like, and beyond) on parts of the armor for an example.. I think it was Bobsobol who wrote somewhere that you can even add specular maps on it *0*...

ahh well, i want this first as a fan art, but when it is finished, it can become a low poly with full details in maps, thats a game technique, every char in wow is make at the start at ultra high poly then redoit in low poly, not big deal, and thx

Welcome Back Eduardo... it's good to see some progress on this project again. :D: I hope all is well in your life.

I think it's better to leave the last WIP discussion as it is for now, but have linked it at the top of your post, to make it easier for people to follow if they wish. I hope that's okay. (I have done much the same with Butchered WIP updates, and I know RZ don't usually like long ongoing threads)

As for the comments on poly-counts and Specular effects... I think ScreamingFox said (and I'm sure I've heard other 3D artists say similar) that it's easy enough to make the model as you want it to look and reduce the poly-count just before importing to the game? I have no experience, so I couldn't say, but I do know that some games run a "dynamic detail" system where they actually reduce the number of polygons for object the further from the camera it becomes. I also know that in 2D vector graphics, there are optimisation routines which can gradually reduce points based on how greatly they modify the line or curve between their neighbouring points... I imagine these games perform a similar algorithm adapted to take account of the additional 3rd dimension. :?:

If such algorithms can operate in real time while playing a video-game, I'm sure even more accurate results can be achieved off-line in the editor.

Oh, another example is that both nVidia and ATI demonstrate the power of Parallax maps (displacement textures) by reducing the poly-count of an object, and creating a Parallax map based on the difference between the high-poly version and the low-poly one... so that the low-poly object still looks identical to the high-poly one when rendered in game. It's actually a trick, like JPEG putting random fractal crap in place of a crowd scene, so it doesn't really represent the original crowd in the photo at all, but it looks the same to our eye.

What I said about Speculative maps is that you can use Speculative, Emissive and Parallax maps on your models in 3D Studio, but they won't be displayed in PT, because the existing engine doesn't support them. It only supports Diffuse and Alpha transparency maps... and as Vormav pointed out in this recent thread it only supports the Alpha layer when your Diffuse map is saved as a TGA. (I can also confirm that it's quite fussy about the exact form of TGA it will accept [I could expand on that quite a bit if anyone is looking for that info, but it's not relevant to this topic])

is more easy, normally u make the moddel high poly with all the detail in the model, not draw, the details in self in the model, after the model is finished (1'000,000.00 polys) or more, it depends, u do something called "baking materials" and u transfer all the fine details into just images, u get displacements maps, normals maps and bump maps for the little details, and depends of game u can get specular maps, reflections maps as well, alpha channels and all what u need, now is up to the game to tell u wich maps are u able to use.
how I work:

Make the base mesh in 3ds max, all low polys, then i export (obj) to zbrush for all the details with an insane ammount of poly counts, 5kkk each piece or more, i textured em in zbrush as well, then start teh baking material in zbrush and exported it to 3ds max (to a low poly counts, use photoshop to fix some things, but the key here is a good baking materials in zbrush will give u a nice good looking result in a low poly.

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Originally Posted by bobsobol

As for the comments on poly-counts and Specular effects... I think ScreamingFox said (and I'm sure I've heard other 3D artists say similar) that it's easy enough to make the model as you want it to look and reduce the poly-count just before importing to the game?

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MAX have modifier for it called "optimize". It will help you reduce vertexes and faces.

I find pointless to build something with so many polygons for PT and than struggle to reduce them.
Funny thing 'bout complex things in PT is that even "Torus Knot" will compile to SMD but will crash game.exe when you "touch it".

I prefer to stick with low poly + ":" effects.

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Originally Posted by bobsobol

[...]only supports the Alpha layer when your Diffuse map is saved as a TGA[...]

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You can also use "Opacity" in 3D Studio, I'm sure that I mentioned "*MAP_OPACITY". This will also work.

the main goal of this project is not for pt it self, but at the end this can be adjusted to be used in pt with out problem, if all of u see the title, it says Realistic pikeman, not just new pt moob >_>

Hmm... there, I'm confused, because Alpha Blend = Opacity = Translucency = Transparency... etc.

Is *MAP_OPACITY global transparency, as opposed to a transparency / alpha map? In which case, that's a funny name to give it. :lol: Or is it connected with the old method of 2 bitmaps, one for diffuse and one for alpha. (despite the fact that BMP can contain 32-bit RGBA just as easily as TGA XD)

alpha blend is a black and white map that is used to mix 2 different maps in order to get a totally new 3rd map, opacity is a map is also a black and white map to tell wich parts are transparent totally or partially, translucency (isnt used in max, its called transparency in max) is used as a number that remplace the map, ofc with a map u have alot of control wich parts are transparent and how much transparent, i hope i undesrtand ur question and hopely i made clear my self xD

To make it simple opacity is global transparency in PT while Alpha 1 is transparency of .tga texture.

If you set your 3DS opacity even to 99% than player will be able to walk through that object (not sure if nopass: will fix that).
So you are not always limited to use .tga only.

nopass: is overeverything, doesnt matter opacity, nopass for pt mean "no pass" xD

Its notpass: (yes I ate one letter). Don't take my words as some dogma XD
But yes notpass: its working.

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Originally Posted by Vormav

To make it simple opacity is global transparency in PT while Alpha 1 is transparency of .tga texture.

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Well... That may make it simple, but in Win32 APIs, Transparancy is global, you can apply a "transparency" level to a window anywhere between 0 and 255, where "opacity" is a mask to allow parts of the window to be more transparent than others.

If "transparency" is ever "masked" in Windows APIs it is with a transparency index in the colour palette, like GIF Transparency. In which case, it is either not rendered, or it is a colour, but can't possibly be both, or part colour and part translucent. XD

In "English" these words all imply more or less the same thing. :(: And strictly speaking, the "Alpha Channel" in an RGBA image can be used to represent Translucency, Specular or Emissive light, or they could even represent Infra-Red or Ultra-Violet or anything else you chose to implement in your engine.

Most monitors cannot render infra-red or UV light, but some games, like Splinter Cell or AVP will allow the player to switch to rendering night vision or other colour spectrum not naturally visible to the human eye.

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Originally Posted by bobsobol

In "English" these words all imply more or less the same thing.

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For me transparency is from transparent to not transparent and opacity is reverse not transparent to transparent.
100% opacity = not transparent.
100% transparency = transparent.

Don't know if I am making any sense, its your main language after all =P

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3431/pikeman.jpg
a little update

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3431/pikeman.jpg



update

the first image is the low poly, there is where all the details are going to be placed in maps when all the work is done

I would like to see this skinned hehe.
But for PT I prefer more cell shading style :)

ya for the start, this isnot exactly for pt, this will be going to pt but not as main purpose: Btw, update (i just started to texture it, so there is still alot work to do
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3431/pikeman.jpg

update:
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3431/pikeman.jpg