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Well I got to level 30 and I got put into Bronze I and I am pretty much stuck because there are so many people that I get paired up with that are just so bad... Many are just bad so they feed. Others troll and there are so many people that just leave. It's like impossible to get to Silver D5.
Am I the only one experiencing this:*:?
Think most people do Ranked with friends to avoid having that.
Well if you just got to level 30, then you really don't belong in ranked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Itachi
Let me break this down a little.
Most silver ranked players have hundreds if not thousands of wins. They have played most/all champs at least once, or have extensive knowledge of them, aka they know the timers of the skills, damage output and who counters who.
They have several full runepages with the 'best' runes.
They have extensive knowledge of all items and know what to build against what team.
In champ select they know not only what champ synergies best with the team, but also counters the team well.
They know the timers of neutrals mobs (at least blue, red, dragon and baron)
They know when to push, keep the lane in the middle or get pushed, all depending on your own strengths and their weakness.
Warding is not only done by the support, but by all lanes. Wards might seem to cost a lot, but dying and losing a lot of minions is much worse then 3 creeps of gold worth. Hell even if you don't die, you might have to waste a flash and go back.
They can play any role and have at least 3 champs to play them (this to reduce the risk that the enemy picks your champ or that it gets banned).
Until you can honestly say you 100% understand all this, then ranked will be shit, you will get countered, you will build the 'wrong' items (just because it works against the previous enemy, doesn't mean it will work against this one), you will pick champs that do not help the team much.
Most people have had the same experience you have now, I had it as well. You know I went ranked with Heimerdinger, I owned extremely hard with him before I was 30, people did not understand how to play against him and because last hitting was not an issue with him, most of my enemies would just fall so far behind against me because they couldn't last hit properly. But then I got 30, everyone understood how to counter him, to not be stupid to fight between his turrets, and all the sudden my favourite champ no longer got played.
You are playing in a whole other league, if I look at myself, a silver player, I know all the things listed above, I've played nearly every champ (I only own about 45, but I always play the champs I've never played before when they are free to play, I think the only 1 left is Nami - didn't have internet when she was free) and when a new one gets released I just spectate a game with someone playing that champ, that way I can follow them, see what they are doing and slow down in tight spots to see what happens.
All of this makes me highly adaptable and knowledgeable in the game, all that is left then is skill/tactics.
Later in the game knowledge has no meaning anymore, since everyone has it, it's all about skills and tactics, but where you're at it, it's essential to know all of this. Thinking you can get Cho'gath while he can steal feast your ass will get you killed, killing an enemy ultied by Zilean, will get you killed, towerdiving a Kayle with ulti up will get you killed, running away from LeBlanc because she just bursted your ass, is allowing a free kill to run away etc.
There are so many situations where you think you can win when you can't, or where you think you will lose, when you won't. Unless you truly know what they all can do, then you are not ready for ranked. A friend of mine is bronze, he has 1800 wins, has all the champs and knows how to counter them all, he might not be the most skilled player, but definitely more skilled then 99% of the people who just hit 30 but he still struggles to get to silver.
Yeah but it's not even me. I just played a game as vayne and I lost because I had a support that didn't even know how to support. This truly is elo hell
I'm don't agree, In order to get you to another level, yes you need practice, lets say 20% from normal games the other 80% are from ranked games. If you want to be a pro player you will never be if you keep yourself playing normals.Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanSSJ
Normals are mainly to test things, and there you will find trollers/rage quitters
meanwhile, if you go rankeds non stop your skills will increase if you are willing to pay attention to mistakes you may do in-game
Rankeds are all about objectives and teamplay, not solo-plays. If you get fed, you will normally push your lane and help a lane that is not doing so well, but if you get fed at mid and your top is feeding, its your job to leave your lane and help him even if your lane is not pushed yet.
Ranked games will teach you how to play as a team, it will teach you how you should place wards, why you SHOULD NOT face check a bush, how to time Objectives (Red/Blue/Drake/Baron)
If you want to go pro play rankeds, don't get mad if you lose 10 games in a row, you may win 10 games straight after those loses. Face your mistakes and fix them.
PRO-TIP: If someone blame/flame/troll you just ignore him. If someone has nothing constructive to say to the team simply ignore and go on
That's why I play with friends to avoid playing with any trolls or feeders. But, then again I'm not even level 30. I'm only level 11. Quite new to League of Legends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Itachi
I disagree as well. Once you hit level 30, practice on mechanics for a few months, then don't stop playing ranked. Ranked honestly helps you improve your game play over time. Im Silver 1, almost Gold V and I've played on Gold Ranked 5' Teams and the weeks of grinding ranked has helped me improve a TON. Just keep playing and dont rage in chat, and you'll end up climbing the ladder pretty fast.
ELO hell doesn't exist, you just need to play a hyper carry if you're that good. (Akali, Irelia, Jax, Kogmaw, Diana)
GohanSSJ covered everything I could tell you from playing with multiple teams, including one that has gone professional. I can just say that you don't ever want to give up but maybe jumping straight into ranked isn't the best thing to do. I did that in the beginning and it destroyed my first season. Just try your best, but get a team that you can learn each others weakness and strengths and then use those together in a ranked match.
It's cos you're in bronze with all of the shit players, you gotta place higher than bronze if you don't want to be with the baddies.
That is true, but it was the same thing with ELO, if you get stuck somewhere alone, then it's hard to get out alone.
Silver leagues have awful players as well, I couldn't carry my team when I was kata mid 22/4/5 I lost that game /facepalmQuote:
Originally Posted by Rishwin
top and bot feeded hardcore and when I went to help them it was too late already, they didn't like wards at that time I guess D;
There's always a chance you're going to find bad players, you can't really change that. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's a part of match-making with unknown people - you can't know what will come up.
Beside, sometimes people have a bad game even if they're good, sometimes one mistake snowballs for the entire match, sometimes there are lags - it's not black-and-white.
You just have to live with that. There are 32 million players according to Riot - so there's always a chance you'll get one that will lose your game.
In order to have a higher chances in winning rank games. Play my recommended heroes repetitively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Itachi
1. AP Yi Mid - Teleport , Flash
2. Elise - Flash , Ignite
3. Ryze - Teleport , Flash
4. Katarina - Teleport , Flash
>Gives your teammate a huge advantage and...
> people are still looking for counters for each heroes.
AP Yi sucks - he's horrible late game, and is easy to counter if you know how to against em in mid lane, i.e. -Quote:
Originally Posted by PX50
If your champ's got some form of CC, set it off after a second on the minion he Q'd on. e.g. - Lux's E, Viktor's Trap, Ahri's Taunt, etc.
The thing about AP Yi is to create an advantage at the early and mid phase of the game and also for what I've experienced. I've laned against tons of people that counters an AP Yi like Chao Gath, but still you don't have to win against your lane, You just basically destroy the other lane especially at the bottom where supports and adcs are laning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedius
An AP Yi only relies on his Alpha Strike as burst and heal for tanking.
Well that's because you are teamed with people your own 'rank'. It's why I said that silver players can play all 5 roles with at least 3 champs. In bronze a lot of people can't play different roles, my guess is you can't either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Itachi
Remember that playing a role is more then just playing the champ, it's also know how to synergies with your team, how to counter them.
For example as a support you don't want to pick blitz if the enemy has say Ezreal/Leona while your adc is Caitlyn. Why? Well a good Ezreal is almost impossible to grab, and grabbing Leona is just a bad choice in general. On top of that the synergy between Cait and Blitz isn't that great, the only advantage is being able to pull them in a trap, but aside from that Cait prefers to keep the enemy on long range, pulling them in makes the fight harder. Against Ez/Leona I would pick something like Janna to support Cait, gives you the ability to keep enemies away, Leona going in will meet with a tornado and all the poke Ez does can be countered with a shield.
There is just so much to know about LoL, in some ways the game is reasonably easy, but all the counters and synergy makes it so much harder.
In your case as Vayne, you want someone that lets you put those third stack on the enemy and blasting them in the wall, champs like blitz and nunu work really well.
Dude, first of all 99.9999999999999999999999999% of the players will never hit pro, so setting that as a goal is a bit foolish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch.
Now you may think ranked has it all, but the simple fact is that as long as you don't fully understand the game, you will just completely destroy your elo. It doesn't matter how good of a player you are, as long as you don't fully get it, you will loose a lot of your games to the point where you get stuck between people who don't fully get the game either. Try getting out of that position?
It's like going from checkers to chess, sure it looks alike and has many similarities, but in the end chess requires many more factors, many more rules.
Before 30 no one truly gets the whole game, people who think they do are fools. Don't get me wrong, it's not like you're a total n00b, but remember you get matched with people with easily 500+ wins more, with a lot more champs etc, compared to them you are still a n00b.
So what is the difference between ranked and normal (assuming blind pick)? Well it's quite simple, in ranked you will lack the knowledge to counter the enemy, in blind pick you have no idea who you will play against. Which means the enemy with hundreds of wins under his belt, won't have that advantage. On top of that, like I said, it won't effect you're Elo, so if you do go ranked after 100+ more wins, you will not have lost your rank due to lack of knowledge, but you can get to the rank that fits your skill.
As for wards etc, I don't know how much normal play you do, but at my hidden elo everyone wards, top gets warded, mid often gets warded and bots is always warded etc.
As for helping other lanes etc. Yes that's very important. But at the same time pretty irrelevant here, he's not losing because of that, he's losing because he does not understand what the enemy can do.
Going to gank bot as kata only to find your head smashed in because Blitz has 3 skills to interrupt your ulti, is pretty devastating.
Sure Elo hell does exist. Elo is basically a place where you go into a never get out. The problem is if you are unlucky, or still unknowledgeable and loose game after game, you will get to the point where players don't give a crap anymore, where people leave, troll, don't understand the game etc. Now you might improve your skills and knowledge in normal games, but if you get back in ranked, you will still be among the idiots. Odds tell you that you will win more then lose because you are better then your Elo, but we all know that while win percentages are in your favor, that you can still lose 1 after the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorJesus
Kata can become extremely weak lategame, Kata requires to get in close and ulti, since everyone targets Kata, it means that every interrupt gets focussed at you, at which point you can't do much damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch.
As for awful players, keep remembering that you're at the same rank as they are. I know that sometimes you get lower due to bad luck, but in general the reason why people don't win their lanes is because they get countered, or the jungler focused their attention to other lanes. A Vlad that loses against Cho doesn't make him a bad player or a bad Vlad player, it also doesn't make the Cho a good player or a good Cho player. Cho simply counters Vlad hard.
The snowballing effect is huge. Recently I had a enemy Ezreal that got first blood on our jungler by a well planned invade, after that he grabbed blue. So we got a Ez back in lane with infinite mana and a extra long sword.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuPeR SoNiC
AP Yi can be countered hard, but AP Yi can counter extremely hard as well. Basically the rule is that you need a proper interrupt and a lot of burst. If not Yi can just keep alpha striking you and meditating in between minion spawns. For example Annie who pokes him down a bit and then stuns Yi while he is meditating with Tibbers, is extremely strong, same goes for champs like Ahri. If you lack that interrupt then you better have some really good ganks. But ganking is hard on Yi as well, because AP Yi doesn't really need his ult (only to refresh cooldown when kills are involved), it means it's usually up, now most junglers have a hard time keeping him in his place. Sure Amumu jungle with Annie mid will destroy Yi, but Tryn jungle with Lux mid is pretty useless. Lux can't interrupt meditate meaning full health Yi most of the time, and to start the ganks she needs to root him, even if Tryn goes in perfectly, Yi can still run away full speed completely ignoring Lux's slow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedius
The hardest part against AP Yi is that even if he's not having the easiest time, he can usually still easily keep alive and farm away, while his alpha strike hurts so much that trying to last hit your minions can be devastating for your health. So in most cases even counters of Yi require to go back a lot and loose out on farm.
Personally I've never had a bad game with AP Yi and I've played him a lot.
+1 to what gohan said
im in S3 atm I'm forced to play weekends due to work and there are far more leavers and nerd ragers as they are off school. That aside I still win more than I lose and my trend is upwards with some losing streaks dotted here and there.
I've played probably near to 3k games now so imagine my advantage with runes and general experience over someone who just hit 30 :P
http://i.imgur.com/RsKvs7ah.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by GohanSSJ
Elo hell doesn't exist, sir. How do you think Elo Boosting works? If you are better than your current elo, you have a 47% chance to have the feeder/leaver on your team while the opposite team has a 53% chance to. So, eventually you will win more games than you will lose and get out of "elo hell".Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanSSJ
So i should wait till i get 500+ wins to play ranked? I'm 231 atm and i still think that i should wait.
If you were trying to proof me wrong about my obvious fake percentage 'fact', then hey you caught me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vusion
Btw do remember that the majority of the players do not play ranked.
Your percentages do not make sense either. Assuming you never leave the other the 1 leaver would be among the other 9. So 100% / 9 = 11.11%, so that's 44.44% chance it's on you're side and 55.55% chance on their side. Simple maths really.
As for the meaning of Elo hell, it's about playing with idiots who troll, just because the troller is on the other side, doesn't mean it's not elo hell. While we all love to win, I bet you would quit real fast if it was always 5v4. Any game with a leaver is a bad game and really that's why Elo hell is about, trollers, leavers, flamers etc.
As for getting out of Elo hell, the issue is that if you drop so low, you will get stuck for a long long time, most people quit ranked or will rage themselves, becoming part of elo hell. That rage usually sticks with the person because they are so annoyed with the game.
It's not about wins. Don't get me wrong, the more games you play, the better you get. But like I said, it's not so much about that. It's about being at that point where only skill and new tactics will help you. As long as you still don't know a lot of champs, don't know their weaknesses and strengths, don't know how to counter etc, then while you can play ranked, you will be at a lower rank then your skill suggests. You might be a great player, but if you don't know who you are playing against, then there is a good chance you will lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by xitragupte
So like I said, you need to have played the majority of the champs and at least properly spectated those who you haven't played. That way you can counter, know when to play safe and know what your team needs, whether that be ap or ad damage, a tank, cc or anything else.
Have 3 champs you're good at it in any role. That way the chance of you not being able to pick a champ you're good at it is quite small, not to mention that you can counter others.
Get a couple of rune pages with different layouts, you don't need 10, but I found 4 to be the minimum. Don't buy them yet, they announced they would do another 2 for 1 deal soon. Since they are 6300 a piece, getting 2 at that price helps a lot.
In the end you might be ready at 300 wins or 800. I have a friend who's completely addicted to Annie, because of that if he doesn't get Annie mid, then he's a below average player and he's got like 700 wins, so it all depends on if you want to keep playing the same champs constantly, or if you want to try others, even if it's only to get a feel of the champ.
4,515,572 of 4,521,351 in your graph are not in Diamond, though I wouldn't say all those in Diamond are Pro either tbh, a pro player is someone who makes money from gaming and it's a crazy small %. Anyway, that is 99.872%, so that much of the user base will never hit Diamond, let alone be able to go pro. Taking MLG for example, you have 8 teams of ~5 players, so really out of 4.5mil players, you have around 40 pro players. That's 99.999%. Considering only the top 4 teams actually won money, you could argue only 20 of those players were actually pro (though I suppose all 8 teams make a wage but still). That put you up to 99.9996%. If you add in all the unranked players, it would go even closer to 100%. Gohan is right, the competition as a pro player in LoL is crazy steep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vusion
Also I'd be shocked if LoL didn't have MMR. MMR is a personal rating (that is used in a groups MMR if you are in a premade party) that is affected very little by win rate. Win rate is a bad indicator of skill frankly, the better at learning you are the higher your loss rate will be because you will constantly be matched against harder players which you might not be used to. Also win streaks are shit for learning anyway, every pro player will tell you that. You don't learn nearly as much about the game from winning as loosing. Nothing is as frustrating for a pro player than to play for an entire day and not learn a single new thing, because learning new things in practice > learning new things in a championship.
Actually Silvers did not play 1000s of games in ranked because I'm Diamond I and I only played like 200. Also, I only play 30 champions other than playing all the champions extensively. But that's just my opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by GohanSSJ
Good job reading... Now read it again and tell me where I said they had thousands of wins in ranked...Quote:
Originally Posted by Haitai
As for the amount of champs you play, again you haven't read what I said. I said you need extensive knowledge of all champions while you need to play at least 3 champs per role. So that's a minimum of 15 champs to play. For example I'm shit with Akali, but I know her skill set and playstyle. You cannot counter that which you do not know about.
Personally I play about 25 champs, most of them support. I can only play 3 or 4 mid champs properly, about 6 top/jungle (most of them can be used for both), about 3 adc (my least played role because my friend usually plays adc) and yeah I can play about 15 support (I can play just about any champ that has some CC as support). Obviously my preference goes to support, but if needed I can play any other role. But like I said, having knowledge of all the champions is essential.