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There are a few people who are coding their own servers now, myslf included, and I'm just wondering what we have to do for this to become legal. Is it just a simple matter of changing ll images, names and erasing any likeness to Habbo, or would it be anything more/less than that?
Regardless if you change the images within the website and the Habbo client itself you're still using their copyrighted software (.swf files) so it's still illegal.
Ah, but what if I developed a server that did not use the SWF files? I'm developing in HTML5 and I cant use .swf's. Also, what other software/files are copied from Habbo?
It's illegal, but if you host a V9 you can have a chance to become 'legal' if you got permission from Sulake. A friend almost get his permission, Jet already gave him and now he contacted Olga so if he agrees his server is 'legal' and he'll be able to keep it online without any problems (only point is no advertising on Habbo and not using the name Habbo)
So it's not a simple case of changing the images/other aspects unique to Habbo?
Images are also copyrighted. And probably their js and css scripts as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon667
Yeah the images are, it's just that I can't see anything else we would have to change completely (apart from maybe the games and names/whole idea of Furni).Quote:
Originally Posted by Quackster
Make your own game up, call it Babbo, then be a cunt and design extremely simmilar pictures to Habbo.
This. Is a good idea :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Livar
My guess is that they would still have a case based on the name (Babbo - it could be potentially misleading) and the 'visually similar' images. Perhaps even the concept!Quote:
Originally Posted by Livar
#yolo, trolololol. It's not Habbo so they can fuck off basically.Quote:
Originally Posted by n0minal
Define "visually similar". Sulake can't copyright a whole art form, that is Pixel Art.Quote:
Originally Posted by n0minal
I would have thought buying and placing objects in rooms was a very common "concept" :P
It is common, but i think to make it all legal, you should make your own game SIMILAR to Habbo, Not exact. So to say, you code all your stuff yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon667
My thoughs/plan exactly. So as long as I make my own images, don't rip off anything of Habbo and slightly change the concept of the game, Sulake can't touch me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheral
Mc Hammar. Can't touch this.Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon667
And basically, yeah. But don't use their files at all, (swf, images, js and css, etc)
You got to make your own codes etc.
Jabbo 3.1, change all the images and furniture designs and you probably have your first legal hotel.
HAMMERTIME XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Spheral
Yeah that's what I was gonna do, i'm working on it now. The images may be a pain though, seeing as I can draw for shit :P I'll learn.
EDIT: I will release what i've done if I ever get it finished :) Maybe we could start something new, the way I'm going to do it, it will be much easier to put in custom features
You guys just need to stop fucking around Habbo look-a-likes and create an original game.
I agree here. Some kid learnt how to make his own RP and it got really popular. All because he took the time to learn and not rip from others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quackster
So yeah, thats what we all need to do x]
I heard some kid invented Facebook too. :OQuote:
Originally Posted by Spheral
If it's 'success' you guys want, you're in the wrong scene. Emulating an existing game, even with your own files, should be for leisure (or fast cash as we've seen).
This is so true. Maybe this is a bit crazy, but I wanted to merge the "create your own server" aspect of Minecraft with the "social, role-playing" aspect of Habbo. I want to make a totally new game, but I'm afraid that it will always bee seen as an emulation of Habbo. Maybe Sulake has warped my mind with all this Habbo shite :/Quote:
Originally Posted by n0minal
Starting from scratch. Even if you replace the client you are still using their protocol which is covered in the EULA.
Define "protocol". Do you mean the actual server and how it communicates with the client? I.m building everything from scratch.Quote:
Originally Posted by AluxH
Yes. If you can't define protocol on your own I probably wouldn't bother.Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon667
I feel like protocol has several different meanings for some reason. I thought you meant something different because I did say that I was building this from scratch :PQuote:
Originally Posted by AluxH
Well good luck but honestly you're in over your head. I've been involved in many projects over the years trying to take habbo's crown and it's a lot more work than you think. The simple chat client is quite easy but then you have to have a scalable server, unique features, reliability, a fully-featured client with users and all their clothes and components in eight directions and furniature in four, you have to design effects and floor tiles and wall tiles. You have to learn how to program path finding etc, it's just not easy and people with a lot more knowledge, experience and money have tried before you.
Some of our greatest rivals (I was mianly involved in Plasma Park, Pixel Island etc) like Fusion City threw 1000s at the projects over the years and came to nothing. They registered as companies, hired artists and moderators and coders and an at-the-time not too bad client based on TestBench. At Plasma we spent like five or six years building our own client and this was all we got:
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1954/latestoi7.png
Then you have to advertise and make it legal, you have to protect your IP from private servers, you have to run proper maintainence on your server and website, keep people organised etc. Not to mention you have to recreate a market for chatrooms.
Trust me, I spent half my teens trying to do it. It's not easy and as a first, second or even tenth project it's doomed to fail.
I want to start small first. Build the server with a few sprites annd clothes and make sure it works, then go from there. I know it's hard work, but it's something that I've wanted to do for a while. And of course I'll need help with art ans that, im not denying that.
But I don't think you actually comprehend what is involved - why do you think the giants Coke and Disney couldn't keep theirs going? Sure those both had pretty specific failures but those two are giants with plenty of money to throw at it. There are some pretty unique MMOCCs (Massive Multiplayer Chat Communities) out right now that have some great ideas and have for ages that are just floundering. Bittybay is an animal habbo for younger kids, ildom has automagic translation between user chat sessions, Kynto was the first javascript MMOCC and is still in development, Lasuni has taken on some RPG aspects and it's still not really viable.
What about all those before you that launched and failed? Dubit, Mokitown and Faketown were released in the same year as habbo and they're gone and burried with hardly a trace left on the web. Talented MMOCC devs who developed dozens of clients like Grey are nowhere to be seen, you can't even work out the legal complexities of building your own client.
There's one big, glaring thing that'll hold you back even if you get a client though: the Habbo mindset. Starting this thread you were thinking of replacing the habbo client and now you want to do the same just with no Habbo technology behind it - so why use your site over Habbo? Why wait for your client to mature into a carbon copy of the hotel when Habbo can dwarf you by getting it's development team to trump you. They also have an established brand and people involved outside of the company and investors who will also gladly pour in more money to crush you in a market - chatrooms - that barely exist anymore.
What about getting into legal trouble like Habbo died with peados and online safety? Are you prepared for that sort of backlash? Are you even legally old enough to take on those kinds of responsibilities?
I'm not trying to paint myself as some sort of genius but it was (and still is) my dream business ten years ago. Even now I umm and aaah about the viability of it and I don't think it'll work still after ten years of brainstorming for a unique edge.
I just don't think you've thought it through.
Must admit, I didn't think of the paedo thing. Then again, I didn't think my game would get big.
I still don't think my game will ever be that big. It's something I want to try. And if I fail, then that's my own fault. I learn, then I move on to something else. I also have to admit, my minset in making this thread was so i know how I could give back tou the community (you guys) without doing something illegal. Then again, I'm a very naive person :/
So what's the point if it never gets big enough to attract trouble? If it's not that big it's probably not pulling in much money to even sustain itself or pay it's staff. I'm not trying to discourage you from making games - do that! Sulake did a lot of experimenting in the early years. Snow wars started as Lumisota in 2000, at the time Sulake were going to launch Habbo they had several different projects in the works. There was Bombastica
http://www.habborator.org/attic/gfx/...oombastica.gif
Urjala
http://www.habborator.org/attic/gfx/early/urjala.jpg
Dr Ken (who was one of the founding artists of Sulake and is really amazing) even had other concepts for MMOCCs at the time - this is one he really loved
http://www.habborator.org/attic/gfx/early/batatas.jpg
There was a virtual meeting room thing
http://www.habborator.org/attic/gfx/early/meeting.png
Hell, at one point before Habbo really took off there was even a build your own MMOCC kit on the Sulake site (which only one chat, RobCity, is known to have bought):
http://www.habborator.org/attic/gfx/early/SOCK.png
It just so happens the web was right for a game like habbo at the time and now... it's not, really. We have smart phones and tablets and supercomputers going cheap so there's no real need for a graphical chatroom. I wholly do support developing, learning and releasing to the community and you should really do that. Habbo's core concept - huge and multiplayer - is still applicable and it's where all the future hits are, it's just graphical chatrooms aren't really worth your time.
(have a look at Dr Ken's blog btw, some amazing work: Visuals – Polyfonken)
I want to open up my game to the community. I've found that if you give something to someone, they will always find ways to make it better. In this way, i hope I can create something completely different :)
¿Why do you make a discussion thread about this when you can start to complete and modify Jabbo? Gefliptemens made an awesome work and is a very good base to make your own game, and it coud be very usefull for the actual developers.
Making a good browser game costs over 1 million dollars. (With office, advertisement etc)
Because it's a pipedream.Quote:
Originally Posted by lRetros
Not necessarily true but it certainly helps - Sulake was never shy of investments. Taivas and Elisa invested undisclosed amounts in the first year and they raised 4m EUR in 2003, 18m EUR in 2005 and 6m EUR in 2006. Not to mention early sponsorships from bands like Jimmy Eat World and Britney Spears, Orange sponsoring the cinema, the Crossroads partnership, Sunny D sponsoring the lido etc. A lot of the finance was after they had a bit of a brand but the developers were in their 30s and had been working together in IT for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rav4eG
Yup, but if You are making your own game, nobody will invest in you.Quote:
Originally Posted by AluxH
I only use other peoples work to a certan extent. In this case, it would feel like too much of an edit than a new server.Quote:
Originally Posted by lRetros
Starting your own successful game is a dream, basically. The game industry is so saturated now a-days, everyone wants the same thing.
As to answer OP's question, "When does this all become legal?" I don't think this becomes legal, by the time you've done everything to make "this" legal, you aren't doing this anymore.
I never thought about it like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Unless you have the power to change Copyright Laws & Regulations around the world, there isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon667
The Habbo retro community will eventually die out, well, that's my prediction anyway. The idea of creating a completely different online world just like Habbo has been discussed before, but there isn't enough motivation to actually start making it. I guess we can just carry on using Habbo's files while it lasts, seeing as it would take some time to actually create a whole new 'game'.
But when the retro scene dies out, people will either just move on to another game or.. perhaps, actually create a new game - if this is the case, then it will probably be just like Habbo in its early stages, like basic messaging and basic item purchasing system with in-game coins, etc. I highly doubt this will happen, though it would be a great project to work on.
As for the original point of this thread, we can't necessarily make it 'legal'. We basically use all of Habbo's files. Maybe if someone who has plenty of time on their hands could literally recreate/modify every single file so it does not look like a duplicate of Habbo.
Maybe exactly this is the problem what habbo does -> 'Pay for items/credits with real money to reach something that other people without investing money in the game dont reach in most cases' like many other projects!?For example wow, metin2, flyff idk what else ...What would be if sulake started the project without selling credits? Would be the interest to copying habbo there ???
I dont think so :) There is no fucking need to sell items in a (online) game, you can make enough money with advertisements. So I think habbo would be alot more popular without the 'pay for credits system' !
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Credits are the economy. Half the fun of Habbo is the economy, if everything was free there would be no worthy event prizes, the whole hotel would just die. Obviously it's not all about event prizes but you get the message.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiggo99
You see that so and I think alot of people too , but there are more people maybe who are more intrested in free credits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hejula
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