Need advice plox

So I've kickstarted for a decent ship in Star Citizen, now I just need a PC that can run it!

From what I understand it will run on the Crysis 3 engine, but likely with far more detailed models. Knowing space games, there will be tons of shit on screen all the time, and the 7mil poly count carriers aren't going to help matters!

Anyway, that's the target spec, probably the highest spec game going to be released in a long time. I'm not too bothered about maxing settings, because from what I've heard future 2 year high end tech will be just good enough for that shit. If I can run it in medium 1080, it'll be a step up from my current PCs (a 450 GTS and whatever shit is in my laptop).

So I'm looking to spend around £1,000, though no doubt I'll go over that if it's a large spec increase.

The question is, desktop or laptop?

Now I know whatever everyone reading this is thinking at this point, "dude wtf is wrong with you, get a desktop!!!", however the problem is I don't have a desk & chair any more as I got rid of everything trying to declutter room. So the desktop budget will be ~£200 less, plus if I got a desktop I'd want a tablet for general browsing and work without having to use PC, so the desktop budget would be ~£600. Though I could use my current desktops case/PSU/screen

So want would you guys (Rish!) suggest, a £1k laptop or a £600 desktop?

Laptop I was looking at PCSPECIALIST - VortexIV LE Laptops, VortexIV LE Gaming Laptops, Build Your Own VortexIV LE Laptop which has an i7 and a 770M, with a 1080p screen. Seems pretty good spec, not sure how it would stand against a desktop at all though.

Thoughts please?

Well on the desktop or laptop options...I'll always say for gaming gear always go desktop....games are always evolving and you need to be able to upgrade to keep up with them...I mean Star Citizen isn't going to be the last game you play ever :)

Just go for the Desktop. Laptops aren't really made for gaming , plus you can always just upgrade parts of your PC when needed , or when you have more money , while you can't really do that on Laptops besides changing the ram stick now and then.

I don't really get why people always buy Laptops for home use. Is it because it's portable and allows you people to play or do whatever in bed? Laptops are clearly made for traveling people :D

Laptops are catching up, smaller dies that run cooler are giving laptops more power than they've ever had TBH. I'm all for desktop gaming, but what about using it at work or school? Chucking it into a bag for a LAN at your mates house? There is no price you can put on the convenience of always having a 1080p screen attached to your keyboard. Being able to use it anywhere in the house rather than being confined to that one table. Not to mention the significantly smaller footprint & space required for your full setup.

For your price range, i think you can get a rocking laptop but the real question is how will it handle the game? Before being able to make a completely informed decision, we really need to see the minimum & recommended specs list. But AFAIK there either isn't one yet or I'm just unable to find it? Comparing it to other games on the CryEngine 3 is probably going to be the only way to get an accurate representation - the 770M gets ~ 50FPS on Crysis 3 on HIGH settings and ~20FPS on ULTRA. So if we're looking for medium-high settings you should be rocking it @ 60FPS no problem. With having a high amount of units on your screen that will put the strain on your CPU which the 4th gen i7 ticks all the boxes for. You will really only need a 4700QM which i have not seen struggle to do anything so far, quad-core with hyperthreading at a base 2.4GHz is more than enough. The only problem you may have is keeping it cool during a heavy gaming sesh so a cooling pad is always recommended (unless it has a hard button like MSI G-series does to turn fans on at 100% for quick cooling).

Had a play with the config on that site - what's their upgrade policy? Will opening the back panel void your warranty or are you free to upgrade certain parts? If you can upgrade, i would get the CPU & GPU you want & get everything else strictly base so you can upgrade aftermarket. If you can't upgrade though, i would definitely get an SSD as your main drive & also would prefer 2x4GB Kingston rather than 1x8GB Samsung RAM. It won't allow 2 HDD's and an optical, so either toss out the optical or get a mSATA SSD + storage HDD + optical.

I've used laptops as my main gaming machines for ~3 years now, from Asus G73 to Alienware M11x to my current MSI GE60 and they have been fine handling pretty much anything I've thrown at them. The way i see it - a laptop can do a hell of alot more than a desktop can at the cost of SLIGHTLY lower gaming performance, yet the convenience you gain is PRICELESS. People are constantly reminding themselves of the days laptops had sub-par processors you had to wait for & fans that go loud the moment you try & do anything... Not anymore. A laptop with an i7 will perform JUST as fast in applications than a desktop will, and under normal use will run just as hot. With an SSD in there you aren't waiting for it to do anything.

Comparatively, here's my latest laptop which i purchased for $1,600 just 2 months ago (about £950) . I can't upgrade anything without voiding warranty so i got the configuration i wanted for a price i was willing to pay after factoring in what i would have spent on upgrades -

Model: MSI GE60
CPU: Intel i7-4700MQ (Quad Core 2.4 GHz - 3.4 GHz - 6MB L3 Cache)
GPU #1: Intel® HD Graphics 4600
GPU #2: Nvidia® GeForce GT750M 2GB GDDR5
Motherboard: MSI
Memory : 8GB (1x8GB) DDR3 1600Mhz
Solid State Drive #1: 128GB Toshiba mSATA
Hard Drive #2: 750GB WD Blue 5400RPM
Optical #1: Blu-Ray Writer
Display: 15.6" Widescreen Full HD LED (1920x1080)
OS: Microsoft Windows 8 64Bit

If you can get something similar with the 770M, same CPU & an SSD without going too much over £1,000 i say you're doing well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rishwin

Laptops are catching up, smaller dies that run cooler are giving laptops more power than they've ever had TBH. I'm all for desktop gaming, but what about using it at work or school? Chucking it into a bag for a LAN at your mates house? There is no price you can put on the convenience of always having a 1080p screen attached to your keyboard. Being able to use it anywhere in the house rather than being confined to that one table. Not to mention the significantly smaller footprint & space required for your full setup.

For your price range, i think you can get a rocking laptop but the real question is how will it handle the game? Before being able to make a completely informed decision, we really need to see the minimum & recommended specs list. But AFAIK there either isn't one yet or I'm just unable to find it? Comparing it to other games on the CryEngine 3 is probably going to be the only way to get an accurate representation - the 770M gets ~ 50FPS on Crysis 3 on HIGH settings and ~20FPS on ULTRA. So if we're looking for medium-high settings you should be rocking it @ 60FPS no problem. With having a high amount of units on your screen that will put the strain on your CPU which the 4th gen i7 ticks all the boxes for. You will really only need a 4700QM which i have not seen struggle to do anything so far, quad-core with hyperthreading at a base 2.4GHz is more than enough. The only problem you may have is keeping it cool during a heavy gaming sesh so a cooling pad is always recommended (unless it has a hard button like MSI G-series does to turn fans on at 100% for quick cooling).

Had a play with the config on that site - what's their upgrade policy? Will opening the back panel void your warranty or are you free to upgrade certain parts? If you can upgrade, i would get the CPU & GPU you want & get everything else strictly base so you can upgrade aftermarket. If you can't upgrade though, i would definitely get an SSD as your main drive & also would prefer 2x4GB Kingston rather than 1x8GB Samsung RAM. It won't allow 2 HDD's and an optical, so either toss out the optical or get a mSATA SSD + storage HDD + optical.

I've used laptops as my main gaming machines for ~3 years now, from Asus G73 to Alienware M11x to my current MSI GE60 and they have been fine handling pretty much anything I've thrown at them. The way i see it - a laptop can do a hell of alot more than a desktop can at the cost of SLIGHTLY lower gaming performance, yet the convenience you gain is PRICELESS. People are constantly reminding themselves of the days laptops had sub-par processors you had to wait for & fans that go loud the moment you try & do anything... Not anymore. A laptop with an i7 will perform JUST as fast in applications than a desktop will, and under normal use will run just as hot. With an SSD in there you aren't waiting for it to do anything.

Comparatively, here's my latest laptop which i purchased for $1,600 just 2 months ago (about £950) . I can't upgrade anything without voiding warranty so i got the configuration i wanted for a price i was willing to pay after factoring in what i would have spent on upgrades -

Model: MSI GE60
CPU: Intel i7-4700MQ (Quad Core 2.4 GHz - 3.4 GHz - 6MB L3 Cache)
GPU #1: Intel® HD Graphics 4600
GPU #2: Nvidia® GeForce GT750M 2GB GDDR5
Motherboard: MSI
Memory : 8GB (1x8GB) DDR3 1600Mhz
Solid State Drive #1: 128GB Toshiba mSATA
Hard Drive #2: 750GB WD Blue 5400RPM
Optical #1: Blu-Ray Writer
Display: 15.6" Widescreen Full HD LED (1920x1080)
OS: Microsoft Windows 8 64Bit

If you can get something similar with the 770M, same CPU & an SSD without going too much over £1,000 i say you're doing well.

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Haha school, geez Rish how old do you think I am?!? Work is a big thing though, and it's likely I'll be wanting to run either AutoCAD on a laptop, or have to output shit to 3DS MAX and into Unity to "play" it as a php/html script on the tablet. Probably that lone makes the laptop far better, I'd still be rendering it in unity for clients, but being able to mess around with drawings away from the office would likely be useful too.

Specs for the game are totally up in the air, and frankly as long as I can play it on low I'd be happy enough. I play everything atm on low, it just isn't a big deal imho. Kids today get way too hung up on graphics really, there nice to show off once in a while but long term it doesn't add any value to the game. I'm hoping the max graphics on SC are retardly high just so the game has more potential as people upgrade their PCs. That should be one of the attractions of PC gaming, upgrading the game long term essentially but whatever just my 2c.

Upgrading will probably void the warranty, but frankly I find if it hasn't broke in a couple of months, it won't break till after the warranty ends anyway. I don't believe warranties add value beyond the normal legislation stuff, it's just a marketing gimmick so people think they have peace of mind. I've yet to return a piece of IT equipment anyway, but then if something breaks I tend to fix it anyway. The power sockets in both my current and previous laptops have broken and I've soldered them back together, I only replaced my last laptop because the screen got some glue on it and it was annoying the fuck out of me (I was fixing the screens hinge at the time).

I'd probably go with a bluray writer tbh, just for future use more than anything. HDD I was thinking maybe a hybrid? Not sure how good they are, I guess they have a bit of SSD for OS and then rest is normal? I'd only want to run the OS off and SSD because frankly anything more is a waste of money. Sadly there isn't a 60GB mSATA, I would get one after market but then I'd probably need to buy Win7 again anyway (which is probably an option in itself to save? Idk)

I was thinking about getting an MSI but they only seemed to have Win8 ones :( I refuse to buy Win8 because I don't want windows becoming a mobile OS and this is just my little way of negative feedback. If I got a Win8 PC I'd have to buy 2 copies of win7 to offset the statistics. :(



@ you other 2, did you read the "dude wtf is wrong with you, get a desktop!!!" bit of my post? Also I generally don't upgrade because why would I when I can just lower the graphics options? I'd prefer to buy something expensive to start with and keep it than to keep upgrading mediocre components. Plus what exactly so you expect me to upgrade? A processor has specific slots that only processors of the same type fit into, so if you want to upgrade you're basically buying a new PC anyway. Less so with a graphics card, but if I want a new it I'd probably just buy a full new PC anyway. I buy cars more often than I buy PCs after all!

Hmm should I throw in an extra ~£100 for an 8970M?

Radeon HD 8970M vs GeForce GTX 770M

Seems like it could be an upgrade, but an extra 10% upgrade I don't know! Website says it's 15% better in crysis 3, which I guess means it'd be better for stuff in the crysis engine too.

PCSPECIALIST - Vortex IV 15, Configure Your Own Laptop, Configure a Laptop, Design Your Own Laptop

£1k3 for a 4700mq 8GB ram and a 8970M with a 120GB SSD and win7. Sounds fairly good?

Well in my case my response was now where near "Dude WTF is wrong with you, get a desktop" I was answering the question you asked...desktop or laptop. If you only wanted Rish's opinion...why didn't you just PM him?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monolith

Well on the desktop or laptop options...I'll always say for gaming gear always go desktop....games are always evolving and you need to be able to upgrade to keep up with them...I mean Star Citizen isn't going to be the last game you play ever :)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by mucski

Just go for the Desktop. Laptops aren't really made for gaming , plus you can always just upgrade parts of your PC when needed , or when you have more money , while you can't really do that on Laptops besides changing the ram stick now and then.

I don't really get why people always buy Laptops for home use. Is it because it's portable and allows you people to play or do whatever in bed? Laptops are clearly made for traveling people :D

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Neither one of you addressed his actual situation, you simply gave your opinions on the age old "Desktop VS Laptop" debate. That's not what he asked for. Due to his needs he was already leaning towards the laptop route, he just wants to know if he's doing the right thing or should be considering other options.

A desktop will play games better. Yes, that is true. However, pure ingame performance is not the only thing some people look for in a PC. Those are the people that high-end laptops are aimed at. And with an i7 & 770M in today's market £1,000 will buy you a high-end laptop which will easily rival a £600 desktop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monolith

Well in my case my response was now where near "Dude WTF is wrong with you, get a desktop" I was answering the question you asked...desktop or laptop. If you only wanted Rish's opinion...why didn't you just PM him?

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Dude, you said, and I quote:

Quote:

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I'll always say for gaming gear always go desktop

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If that's not a knee jerk reaction to the Laptop vs Desktop discussion I don't know what is! You are saying always go desktop regardless of the situation. I could have asked "I have to take the PC to work every day but want to game at night, should I get a desktop or laptop" and your reaction would logically be the same.

You clearly didn't put any thought into the post, which it what I wanted frankly. I didn't only want Rish's reply, I just know he knows WTF he's talking about. I was quite open to someone else on this forum making a reasonable, logical argument, but quite simply with a paragraph response how can you expect to convey your opinion properly (if you actually had one)?

I am sorry , I really did not read all , the post is too long. Yeah , certainly a 1000 pound worth Laptop would tear down a 600 pound worth PC. That is because you guys always buy "new stuff" , and new laptops are really amazing. The only thing you should be worrying about is the cooling, because if you are going to use it for gaming it heats up pretty fast , but that's just a good feature , making hardcore gamers go outside from time to time and enjoy life :lol:

I actually never bought anything new , especially not a PC.

Actually I read your post....twice. The only mention of "work" was the tablet mention...you never said you would be needing something to transport TO work with you. If that was the case then sure I would recommend a laptop.

Sorry I offered you the opinion you requested...didn't know it was a request with a slap in the face as a reward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monolith

Actually I read your post....twice. The only mention of "work" was the tablet mention...you never said you would be needing something to transport TO work with you. If that was the case then sure I would recommend a laptop.

Sorry I offered you the opinion you requested...didn't know it was a request with a slap in the face as a reward.

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Exactly. He never said he NEEDED to take it to work. But if he gets a laptop, he HAS that option. With a desktop, he does not. He merely said it would be nice to be able to take it to work.

Again, he didn't ask what was better in general, which is why your comment "I'll always say for gaming gear always go desktop" was not helpful in the slightest. He wanted opinions specifically tailored to his situation, he did not want your GENERAL opinion on what is better. THAT is the difference.

@ Rob - If you can't upgrade it without voiding warranty then just get the specific setup that you want, just the way you want it. With the Hybrid HDD - normal HDD's have ~8MB-16MB of cache for indexing, whereas these Hybrids have ~3-6GB of flash memory cache which will index your most accessed files. It's really a mid-way between HDD & SSD but if you don't want to get a 120GB SSD (which i personally would recommend, SSD's actually perform faster in higher capacities, i go for 120GB min) then a hybrid would be the next best thing. Unless you can afford to get a storage HDD with mSATA SSD which will still give you room for the blu-ray but that all depends on your budget.

Overall though you'll get a solid unit for that price regardless of which options you choose to go for, as long as you get the 4700QM with 770M you'll be doing fine. Everything else is just gravy. It will also slay autoCAD with that i7 and TBH you'll be hard-pressed to find anything else that will really push that chip to its limits.

There is no need for a desktop unless you are specifically after gaming performance, which you're not. For starters you need to get some furnishings to actually accommodate it, and after all that the budget you're left with will get you a desktop SLIGHTLY better than that laptop. Hell, I'm not even sure if you'll be able to get an i7 desktop for that price. If gaming performance is not your first priority & you would like to be able to move it around, a laptop's the way to go.

Chassis & Display Vortex Series: 15.6" Matte Full HD LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU) Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Mobile Processor i7-4700MQ (2.40GHz)
6MB
Memory (RAM) 8GB KINGSTON HYPER-X GENESIS 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3 (2 x 4GB)
Graphics Card AMD® Radeon® HD 8970M - 4GB DDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 11
2nd Graphics Card NONE
Memory - 1st Hard Disk 1TB SERIAL ATA II 2.5" HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (5,400rpm)
2nd Hard Disk NONE
SSD CACHE DRIVE 120GB Kingston SSDNow mS200 mSATA (upto 550MB/sR |
520MB/sW)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive 6x BLURAY WRITER, 8x DVD ±R/±RW & CYBERLINK SOFTWARE
Memory Card Reader Internal 9 in 1 Card Reader (MMC/RSMMC/SD: Mini, XC & HC/MS: Pro
& Duo)
Thermal Paste STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card Intel 2 Channel High Definition Audio + MIC/Headphone Jack
Network Facilities GIGABIT LAN & KILLER™ 1202 WIRELESS GAMING 802.11N +
BLUETOOTH 4.0
Wireless Router NONE
USB Options 3 x USB 3.0 PORTS + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT AS STANDARD
Firewire 1 X 1394a FIREWIRE PORT
Battery Vortex Series 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (5,200 mAh/76.96WH)
Power Cable 1 x UK Power Lead & 180W AC Adaptor
Operating System Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence
DVD Recovery Media Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit) DVD with paper sleeve
Office Software NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Laptop Cooling Stands NONE
Carry Case NONE
Monitor NONE
Keyboard Language INTEGRATED BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD WITH NUMBER PAD
Keyboard & Mouse NONE
Mouse INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Gaming Mouse Pad NONE
Speakers NONE
Webcam INTEGRATED 2.0 MEGAPIXEL WEBCAM
Headsets NONE
Surge Protection NONE
Printer NONE
External Hard Drive NONE
Warranty 3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3
Year Labour)
Home Installation NONE
Dead Pixel Guarantee NONE
Intel Anti-Theft Technology NONE
Insurance NONE

For £1k4. Sound decent Rish? The msata SSD is expensive, but I guess it's better to have a larger HDD for files (though I current store everything to the external hooked up to my raspberry pi). The bluray writer is also questionable, it's about £50 more but I guess with it having a 1080p screen it makes sense to have a bluray drive. Also stuck in the gaming wifi card to try and lower my ping a bit, the review seem to indicate they work really well /shrug. Will 8GB RAM be enough? I'm guessing the mobo has 4 slots as there's an option for 32GB ram, so I guess I can upgrade if needs be. I don't really care about warranties, I can fix pretty much anything anyway. Like I said before, shit is designed to break after the warranty has expired anyway :P

Yea that's pretty decent for the price.

That 8970M will generate alot more heat than the 770M though so i would get the thermal paste upgrade & also get a laptop cooler for gaming. With that GPU you shouldn't have problems playing it on high. Killer is a little gimmicky, they're just re-branded Atheros cards but they are of decent quality & the software can sometimes some in handy. Worth it if they aren't too much extra. 8GB will be fine, especially 2x4GB.

Yea I've been contemplating voiding my warranty, I've only had it for 2 months but i can't even open the back panel without breaking the seal. It has 2 DIMM slots with 1x8GB which i would much rather upgrade, and i want to see what kind of expandability options i have. Maybe rock an mSATA & SSD for lower power usage& weight. Perhaps swap the stock Toshiba mSATA for a Crucial or something. Even if something did break I'm looking at shipping it away with probably 2-3 weeks downtime :/

£1,400 for that?

IdeaPad Y510p High-Performance 15.6" Multimedia Laptop from Lenovo | Lenovo (US)

If at all possible, highly recommended. I have the SLI 650m and it blows away my friend's 670m. SLI only works while plugged in but its actually a nice power saving feature.

Not sure on the prices over there but I'm sure you could find a better deal if you look hard enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radeyo

£1,400 for that?

IdeaPad Y510p High-Performance 15.6" Multimedia Laptop from Lenovo | Lenovo (US)

If at all possible, highly recommended. I have the SLI 650m and it blows away my friend's 670m. SLI only works while plugged in but its actually a nice power saving feature.

Not sure on the prices over there but I'm sure you could find a better deal if you look hard enough.

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It's not a power saving feature, the battery literally doesn't have the power to run both GPU's for longer than a few minutes so it just won't run at all unless plugged in. Also SLI configuration uses the ODD which Robert wants to have as a Blu-Ray drive. Also the 750M gets anal raped by the 8970 that Robert is getting, it will even rival the SLI performance. Also he is getting quality Kingston RAM & a 120GB mSATA SSD which Lenovo do not have an option for. Also AFAIK that's not even sold in the UK, and if it was you'd probably have to almost double the local US prices.

Sadly we do not yet live in a world with a truly "international" marketplace, we use USD as a baseline for everything yet most things either won't ship outside the US or are only available in other regions at twice the price.

Look for a 15.6" laptop with the following specs & see what price point it comes up at:
- i7 4700QM
- 2x4GB Kingston Hyper-X
- 120GB Kingston mSATA
- 4GB 8970M
- Killer LAN & WiFi
It will probably be around the $2k ballpark which is just under what Robert is paying. You need to remember this price is essentially including all of his "aftermarket" upgrades. It will not require any more upgrades out of the box.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rishwin

It's not a power saving feature, the battery literally doesn't have the power to run both GPU's for longer than a few minutes so it just won't run at all unless plugged in. Also SLI configuration uses the ODD which Robert wants to have as a Blu-Ray drive. Also the 750M gets anal raped by the 8970 that Robert is getting, it will even rival the SLI performance. Also he is getting quality Kingston RAM & a 120GB mSATA SSD which Lenovo do not have an option for. Also AFAIK that's not even sold in the UK, and if it was you'd probably have to almost double the local US prices.

Sadly we do not yet live in a world with a truly "international" marketplace, we use USD as a baseline for everything yet most things either won't ship outside the US or are only available in other regions at twice the price.

Look for a 15.6" laptop with the following specs & see what price point it comes up at:
- i7 4700QM
- 2x4GB Kingston Hyper-X
- 120GB Kingston mSATA
- 4GB 8970M
- Killer LAN & WiFi
It will probably be around the $2k ballpark which is just under what Robert is paying. You need to remember this price is essentially including all of his "aftermarket" upgrades. It will not require any more upgrades out of the box.

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AMD Radeon HD 8970M - NotebookCheck.net Tech

Says the 8970M is as good as a 670M SLI, and only 10% worse than a 765M SLI.

Also for that $2k, I believe you also need to add in sales tax or something? I remember reading about US prices technically not being as good as they appear online because they leave off tax as each state is different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robert

AMD Radeon HD 8970M - NotebookCheck.net Tech

Says the 8970M is as good as a 670M SLI, and only 10% worse than a 765M SLI.

Also for that $2k, I believe you also need to add in sales tax or something? I remember reading about US prices technically not being as good as they appear online because they leave off tax as each state is different.

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Yea SLI does involve 2 GPU's but it will not DOUBLE the performance, you're still losing about 40% performance from that 2nd GPU with scaling. A single high-end card like the 8790 will perform better, run cooler, and use less power.

Yup US prices don't include tax & every state has various tax rates for various product categories. Here in Aust ALL prices already include the 10& GST (goods & services tax) and "essential groceries" such as milk & break & eggs are not taxed at all.

It's just a question , since you requested Rishwin's answer only , why don't you just ask for his Skype and talk about your choices for the next 2 months?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mucski

It's just a question , since you requested Rishwin's answer only , why don't you just ask for his Skype and talk about your choices for the next 2 months?

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As I already said, I wanted everyone's opinion, if they can back it up with arguments to support it. Rish has proven he knows wtf he is talking about in the past which is why I specifically mentioned him, but it never discounted anyone else out.

I try to use the same principle that scientists use. I give my idea, and try to get everyone to pick holes in it, until it is the best design our collective intelligences can come up with at the time. It's also the reason I tend to be argumentative with people, if you can't defend your opinion you are no use to anyone.

The problem is Rish is really the only one who has given an opinion with an argument to support it, which is why this discussion appears so one sided. I think anyone who has spent the past 10 years on the internet has heard the "get a desktop for gaming" spiel to the point that frankly we don't bloody need to hear it any more. It's quite simply spam at this stage.

Right well here is something I would buy for gaming and work and it's around £650

Toshiba Satellite P855-32G review | Laptops and netbooks Reviews | TechRadar

Don't ask me where to buy it though. I have no idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mucski

Right well here is something I would buy for gaming and work and it's around £650

Toshiba Satellite P855-32G review | Laptops and netbooks Reviews | TechRadar

Don't ask me where to buy it though. I have no idea.

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It's not 1080p, and a 630m is as bad as an intel 5000 HD onboard graphics, so barely worth the power usage.

But thanks for trying!