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This release by SunnyZ has been disputed, and since the files are sensitive (probably unseen elsewhere) and claimed (I believe correctly, and as yet undisputedly) to belong to a RaGEZONE member other than the poster, this thread is currently unavailable.
Whether this situation continues like this or not I considered it important to reduce the "leak" as much as possible, until such time as a decision has been made.
For clarity, it is normal RZ policy to allow such releases, but there are extenuating circumstances in which we may elect to block such a release. It is yet to be decided if any such conditions exist in this case.
Please respect this action. Feel free to discuss (politely) the merits of these files to RaGEZONE over the merits of keeping a skilled developer among us and friendly [highlight]in this thread[/highlight]. Essentially, that is the primary issue. Any final decision will be based upon the best interest of all members, and the community as a whole. When considering your own views, remember that people can often be their own worst enemy, and this is not a simple "yes, no" question. Either final action has benefits and consequences.
Try to keep comments on, and about the subject, and not about individuals.
Please do not spread any animosity about this subject outside this thread.
The thread, and any posts you may have in it, including the files [highlight]are not gone[/highlight], the are merely hidden from public view while those concerned can make a conclusive, collective and unbiased decision.
[highlight]Do not reverse this action by reposting these files / thread.[/highlight] (that would be an infractable offence, and warning is already publicly given)
If you have these files, please do not post them elsewhere.
Thank you for your attention and your patience. Sorry for any inconvenience.
My dispute is very simple. RZ policy is very clear on this matter that leaks are allowed 100%. There are no viruses floating around all over this release and therefore should not be exempt. The fact that a RZ member complained should not be enough to overturn the overwhelming support of several community members.
Tell me Bob, these files I have here... What's different about them from the very files that they were derived from here on RZ? Extra features? Sure. But does the person who made those additions actually have a legal leg to stand on when we're talking about rights and copyrights? Hell no. These files belong to Yedang. Plain and simple. The author of these works should be given no special asylum or protection on RZ for this fact alone.
Lets talk about counter-productivity here. Look around the forums Bob. When's the last time we had a FULL client/server release like this? It's rediculous. Other sections on the forums are booming with contributions and releases frequently, meanwhile this forum looks fairly dead often, with the occasional new threads in comparison. This of course is referring to only server/client FULL releases.
Have members been contributing lately here? YES. A lot, tons of releases and tutorials, but nothing server/client repack related. And when we DO get a rare new server release, you're told to go find a client to make it work. There's nothing more dysfunctional than a half-release with no information on how to make it work properly, and it's run rampant on this board for a LONG time.
Few repacks have been a full release with client, and there's no freaking reason it should be this way. I don't see this being done on other sections of RZ, and quite frankly it's irriatating. Bob, as a PT player yourself, aren't you tired of seeing the PT forums be empty with a handful of active members?
More releases generates interest. Interest generates productivity. Productivity in-turn pays off with not only more active users on the forum, but contributions back to the forums. Even Sandurr himself contributed after he got started here in his early days.
Lets roll back the clock to then. What if this was the first server leak on RZ and this same situation occured, no one managed to dl the files. What happens now? No one has a chance to dev on them, no one has a chance to contribute or update them or add to them. No new releases. Development stays dead.
I had a feeling this would happen, and as I asked you then, I urge you to re-consider this sitation and stick to the grass roots of RZ and allow this leak as it should be.
The present situation is all about consideration, and in relation to "legality" as you say these files are no more and no less illegal than most server releases here, until you consider our "community law". This is where the situation is debatable.
I would not insist, for example, that Sandurr release all of his last backup of rPT to us. As you say, he does contribute, and he is only able to devote as much time to his PT development because he can profit by it. You don't profit by giving your work completely for free. (unless you trade entirely on servicing that free product)
Actually, I suspect that is where the poorly documented releases come into play. Those releasers are giving their code, but rely on you not knowing how to use it and needing to pay them for support they will not provide here for free. It's just a different way of working. Gregoo has given code for free, and leased his services, for example, and I think that gzuz does too.
Those cases are reasonably clear cut, because of the contributions already given, even of late. This situation is, I believe, not so clear. Not clear enough that I feel confident to decide one way or another for the entire community.
I feel I worded the current state more clearly in a PM I sent to SunnyZ on the matter.
Paraphrasing:-
If we allow the links to remain while we debate the matter, any debate quickly becomes academic.
IMHO, it's far better that the links go into holding while a decision is made.
[highlight]The current state is not finalised![/highlight] But I don't feel it is my place alone to allow, or disallow this release. The links must remain private while I consult the team, or that consultation is worthless.
Please understand that in this situation, inaction is a decision in it's self. If the thread goes public again, I would like it to be because the PT section RaGEZONE staff have all agreed that it should do so. If it is deleted for good, it should also be because we have all agreed that it should be. (or because we are overruled by a superior, which is where it will go if we cannot definitively decide anyway)
It's a controversial decision, and one that one moderator alone should not make. I hope that clarifies my position, and the state of this release, as it stands. Think of it as "in holding", or "pending approval".
With no offense intended, i believe these files should be made public again until such a time Baris comes forward also and states in plain english that he does not want these files here. I have my copy of them, makes no odds to me, but i do agree with what cloak has said in that development will come to a halt all because rovarav wants to make more cash upon the bundles he has made leasing his little dat files to players, its shameful that he would request to have these files retracted. It was baris that did 99,999% of the dev work on these, therefore rovarav has no official right to question their release here, if rovarav provided any work on them it was solely graphics and textures, in which case i have no issues removing said files from the release, infact id happily rework those images.
On an related topic- if i was to myself examine these files, add a bunch of features to them or change existing ones and then re-release them, would that be classed as a breach of this ruling?
If yes then i feel this whole ruling should be thrown out as it would be me making my mark on someone elses piece of work. Just as was done with the original jPT server that has brought us to where we are today.
What is so magical about MPT? I heard everyone talking about it but no one ever stated what they have... just asking if this is worth anyone's time.
If current ePT server would leek out how would it be this different from MPT release? ePT server would also be poorly documented...
Sorry bob but I think that your argument with poor documentation could also be applied to any repack or first server release.
GM of MPT can complain, I'm just not sure about what he's complaining... that he would like to sell files that are not legally his and he did not dev those fixes and changes alone. Let's not help him in making illegal money, time to put those files back.
This community was born from leaks and we wouldn't be where we are today if it wasn't for leaks. Messing around with the files for fun or playing non profit is a grey issue. Selling these files is definitely against the law and I don't think ragezone should support that by removing the leak.
Rovarav wanted this leak to be removed so he simply could keep selling these files for around 500$-100$.
He didnt even develop these files, Baris was the main developer and Baris did the main work.
Rovarav was kicked from MysteryPT by VaGo/Baris for breaking the rules. Therefor lost the acces to the files.
He later got acces to the MysteryPT Host through baris e-mail, which he hacked,
(so ive heard i cannot confirm this) and brought down MysteryPT and went on selling the files.
Rovarav does not have the power to claim these files, Baris does.
Rovarav put down money and time into Magic/Mystery PT thats true but it does not give him the right to these files.
rovarav doesnt have the knowledge or expertise to take a server down. it was shut down via subagames after the sopa ban came in. Just as rPT was. He has no knowledge what so ever with issues regarding what he has said. I remember i spoke to Baris and him when i played mpt about deving for them, rova had no clue what i was talking about. The server was shut down by suba, not this hack imposter. Rediculous.
You know nothing about my knowledge and let me remind you that you had a website for a server that was never opened and stayed in beta, so dont talk like you are better than others if you are not. You are just talks and no actions. MysteryPT was down by me and you can ask baris or vago or anyone else but its not the point here and i dont feel so proud for taking it down... I did it because of right reasons. The point is that SunnyZ post this files that dont belong to him and uses a lot of time wasted by baris/me for this files.
SunnyZ,
Why you have to show msn history? I already told i sold this files via my MSN and it has nothing to do with any website or ragezone. I have the right to do it cuz i built this server with baris since 2010 and the files you leaked you did nothing for them you just found them on FTP of ept1.net and decide to leak them without approval to "help" ragezone community.
Whatever, I will let to bobsobol and ragezone staff to decide... it's their decision afterall. Hope they take the right decision and help save me and baris time and work for this files... let's see if justice will be here...
i have actually had 7 successful servers prior to reaverpt. so dont come in here and think you know everything buddy, you have been a ragezoner sub 2 years. I have been here since early days of priston tale servers. Reaverpt was and always was planned to be a test server. It was only when your server was SHUT DOWN BY SUBAGAMES that i extended my player base for your players. We never intended it to be anything more. so i am not all talk, i have shown more actions around here than you ever could with your greedy ways, how dare you hold onto these files and try to sell them, they are not yours, and they are not baris's. Dont try and play the card you are trying to save baris time. You have no interest in him and clearly the feeling is mutual when he KICKED you from mpt. Dont extend to people and expect sympathy, you dont deserve it. So much for your knowledge there.... every point you have made has been torn to shreds. Fantastic argument, clearly world class.
PS,
rova i still remember and probably have chat logs from when you tried to ask for my help regarding the DDoS attacks on your server, if you cannot defend yourself against a mere denial of service executed by a bunch of players who raged at you for being a fat-cat who probably learned how to DDoS off of a youtube video. how the hell do you think you could take a server down? Honestly?
lol it is amazing how today's generation is all about liers and lies. Truth doesn't matter anymore.
Yes I asked you for help for DDoS and? lol you told me some crappy ways which i knew already.
Anyways man keep lie to yourself. It is worst to lie to your self than lie to others.
And I tell you again, I took MPT down NOT subagames. Subagames took MagicPT down and then it name changed to MysteryPT and kept running then I took it down.
Stop talk too much if you don't know a damn thing. And Let me hear the 7 sucessful servers you runned... what are their names? was you the owner of them or just a helper there?
SOPA never went through, I believe. Nor did PIPA or ACTA. (
You must be registered to see links
) However, DMCA is legal and RaGEZONE has a DMCA compliance statement included in our "terms of service" with which we must comply.
DMCA Notice;
RaGEZONE.com is in compliance with 17 U.S.C. & 512 and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"). It is our policy to respond to any infringement notices and take appropriate actions under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and
other applicable intellectual property laws.
The compliance form has not been correctly filled out, but where this request made in line with that agreement then we would remove the links to copyrighted material provided by SunnyZ, but not owned by him.
Most MMO servers are permanently Beta. Once a program goes out of Beta, or rather into "release" all features are fixed and only bugfix patches will be applied. How many MMOs never add, remove or rework a feature? The fact that they don't make a fuss about the Beta nature doesn't make them any less so.
Better than others who do not share files and developments they no longer have any use for? He is. :
He shares them in his own name, packaged as he feels fit and supported to the extent he feels necessary. This way he does not have to deal with third parties "leaking" his work in dodgy archives which very few people can get to work right and generally make his work look shoddy.
That's some serious double speak to my ears. The only actions I would take again, even with hindsight for which I am "not proud" are accidental actions, like failing to set an alarm in the morning. XD Not proud, can't promise it wont happen again.
Additionally you take credit for compromising a server to induce a DoS. (Denial of Service) Which is a practice RZ cannot, and will not, ever condone and which we actively seek to deter our members from attempting. Not only for DoS attacks, but for any unethical server intrusion or security compromise. (the client may be considered "Public Domain" while it is not attached to services run by others)
The only ethical reason to do this, even if it is still your own server, is in order to test the security to breaking point and attempt to improve it's resilience in future.
In which case, that is no point at all. That is what a leak is, and it is the primary reason for the creation of RaGEZONE. To get files to people which their authors would otherwise deny them. Either because they do not wish to share those files, or because there would be no sensible place for developers to share them.
My point (the issue I personally take with fraudulent leaks) is met by the fact that SunnyZ did not make any claim to own the files he released, and did not claim any credit for their creation. He is due credit for cleaning, and compiling the archives, and sharing the links with us. Nothing more. He has made no claims for credit to which he is not due, and (as I said in private) I can only congratulate him on that.
The potential point is that you are a member of this community, and if this release misrepresents you and you would rather distribute it (or parts of it which are yours) in a different manner, then we should allow you to do that under your own name and state your own terms of use / service. Misrepresentation is equivalent to slander, and that's never cool.
I'll give a recent example from this section; some of Gregoos' files where sold as working by a third party without his consent and before he was ready to consider them "working" or even fit for a "beta release". (I believe) That's a clear misrepresentation of his skill and the usual quality of his work which is highly slanderous and was very shameful. (most people here seemed to agree on that point)
However, if these files (as posted by SunnyZ) are said to contain works by you, which you have not authorised to be distributed in this manner, and you accept that as a true state of affairs I can sign off on this here and now and re-publish the thread. (this would not be dis-similar to the way in which Gregoo dealt with that "leak") It's not very satisfying, but it is fair and accurate and requires minimal effort on your part.
The two big issues for (re)distributing the files of closed servers are "joint ownership" (who gets credit for what bit) and support. Usually the team breaks up and nobody wants to have to support the bits they didn't do, even if they can be bothered to support something they are no longer actively using.
If you have uses for individual files in the archive outside that server or such then, as mentioned above, we can probably replace any such files with more openly licensed ones to be fair to you and your continued profitability and enthusiasm for this community.
While it may be an inconvenience for you, considering the way this discussion is going you may like to let us know what files you are still using so we can look to replace them and put the thread up with links which are more acceptable to you
Whatever, I will let to bobsobol and ragezone staff to decide... it's their decision afterall. Hope they take the right decision and help save me and baris time and work for this files... let's see if justice will be here...
Developments shared = time saved. The only times I've "wasted time" developing PT, is when I've found something ace and forgoten to document what I did to the extent that I could share it with others on RZ. Developments kept secret do not save time, they waste everyone's time by reinventing the wheel over and over again. The only thing they could do is to make money via artificial manipulation of the laws of "supply and demand". (which is actually what copyright and patent are usually for)
It's like cheating at cards, TBH. OTOH, it's also how most governments and legal systems work, and how most societies these days expect their people to work. It's how most of us are raised to think, but that doesn't make it "right".
Thank you for your permission to release these files Rova.
They will be a fantastic asset to the pristontale community.
Magic/Mystic PT will certainly go down in the private server history books as the first server to open their files for public access and to be modified. I hope other server servers follow suit. Face it, this game is old, OLDer than old, ancient. Would be fantastic for every server to release all their code so everyone can have their own little slice of PT heaven with their friends.
Amazing things can come from this release.
But unfortunately while money is a factor, this will not happen.
Well that's done, but I think that attributing creation to Suba is also a misrepresentation. Not at all sure how much influence (if any) they had over the development of the release... but Rovarav should know better than I, I guess. :/:
It's also been a long time since anyone referred to me as part of "children". XD I think it's been a decade or two since my parents called me that.
actually it was made by yedang inc. or possibly a precursor, triglow pictures had alot to do with the initial jpt stuff, subagames are a front end reseller, kinda like you were(only less legally)
fyi. The list of servers i have previously run and developed should be somewhere on my profile, and if you must know i started as a dev in the early days with ChaosPT as a lead dev, before the implementation of ice map, from there zuzpt,dbpt,bwpt,InfernPT, also i set up and started a server most of your top staff at magic pt owned...Ille infact, him and a few friends owned a server i set up and dev'd for them until time of release. I have been charitable to other server owners throughout the time of them being my own competition, im passed it all now however, i own a server, that has 0 players and 0 donations and i am happy with that fact. The sole purpose is a dev server. I dont feel the need to come here and compare d**k sizes with people over how many players i have or how much i make in donations, id rather do the little that i can to help in the areas that set of skills are needed most. I just wish that you and your dev team shared that passion. If baris did, this community could have been so much further forward, so much quicker.
I suppose if your parting words are bye bye children im supposed to pretend you are an adult? im sorry but the way i have conducted myself may not be in an adult fashion, but likewise your conduct screams nothing other than child, greedy and petulant.
![bobsobol - [NOTICE] Re. MPT Server/Client/Admin Files - RaGEZONE Forums](http://members.iinet.net.au/~samscale/PristonTale/pics/MPT-Rova-Chat.jpg "bobsobol - [NOTICE] Re. MPT Server/Client/Admin Files - RaGEZONE Forums")
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