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Body language.

Ginger by design.
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Go base everything you read about and do on pure scientific facts if it suits you. For the rest of us something like this can be an eye-opener and a reminder to at least pay attention to how other people act and what kind of signals they send. You may not have a fool-proof manual to decode it but there's a ton of useful information in people's behavior that you'll miss if you don't realize to look at all.

How can it be an eye opener? It's pseudoscience and fiction. There's a lot of REALLY good fiction if you want to let your mind wander, but you'd be a little wacky to go and try to apply things to real life. Do you study ESP (especially something like twin ESP), mind over matter, telepathy, telekinesis, aliens, and metaphysics, then turn around and try to apply that to real life? Does it somehow open your eyes to how things really are? Do you do the same with things like Fringe, Supernatural, Heroes, etc?

The science says there isn't a lot of useful information there. It says there's some merit to the idea in some very specific scenarios about some better understood nonverbal communications. Everything else is literally fiction.

jMerlin as always your post is perfectly filled with facts and information but sadly its value next to nil (sure, good to know that the article has no scientific base though) and net effect on people and atmosphere on the forum negative. Are you feeling alright? Your take on most topics almost hints that you suffer from boogiemen and use this forum as a means for some sort of relief.

There's no point in opening a discussion about telekinesis, witchcraft, or aliens here and talking about how it impacts our daily lives. It's one thing to talk about fiction and how it's intriguing, but it's another to say that the study of a book where a witch placed a hex on this one person is eerily similar to this thing that once happened to you, and that maybe that explains it. The only thing that annoys me more than people trying to apply fiction and psuedoscience is people talking about "hackers" and computer-based anything when they can't even fathom how software and computers actually work.

TLDR: The fiction of body language inspires some pretty cool ideas (see: Lie To Me), but you're off your rocker to try to apply it to your life, and will do nothing but confuse things further, and end up distancing yourself from people. If you can't communicate clearly with other people, the problem isn't your facial expressions, hand gestures, and the orientation of your legs.
 
1/11/1995 ~ 23/11/2011
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God, ^ this dude is really trying hard XD. It's so pathetic it's turning in some kind of comedy ^^.
 
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God, ^ this dude is really trying hard XD. It's so pathetic it's turning in some kind of comedy ^^.

What are you talking about? jMerliN rarely posts without proof, nor ignores facts throughout his statements. Sure, he may be strong-sided and not waive much in terms of discussion, but he doesn't post without proper background. It's not pathetic, it's knowledge; something we should all try to use as we post.

As for on-topic, I did some research on this for my psychology class and found some interesting things. Apparently, when you're talking to a girl, if you nonchalantly focus your eyes on their lips; they cannot help but to think of you in a sub-sexual mannerism.
 
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What are you talking about? jMerliN rarely posts without proof, nor ignores facts throughout his statements. Sure, he may be strong-sided and not waive much in terms of discussion, but he doesn't post without proper background. It's not pathetic, it's knowledge; something we should all try to use as we post.
Really? Because you only been just around. This guy has been banned the past 2 years lots of times because of all his BS nonsense.

Why is he talking poop now? Well mostly because he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. The simple fact is that I couldn't do my job without reading body language, I couldn't maintain my friendships etc.

Some people, like him, are absolutely blind to body language, they cannot see what some people truly mean and because they do not see it, they just assume it's not there.

Don't get me wrong, it would be better if more people tell you what they are feeling, but they don't, and even I don't, I'm great at expressing myself verbally, yet sometimes I just prefer keeping things to myself, and that's fine, but it's also good that there are some people that can read you like a book, because as scary or uncomfortable it might be sometimes to talk about your feelings, it needs to be done and if they can read you well, then you won't need to tell them what you are feeling exactly either.


Last year I observed a man for 3 weeks for an assignment, now this man was the subject in our team pretty much every day (heavily underwaged, alcoholic etc he died because of it), now I had been working with this man for months already. But now I started to truly observe him, not just what he said and did, but his facial expression, the way his body talked really. 8 pages later I found out things that I had not seen before, yet made perfect sense. My colleagues had the same, while my assignment was purely for school, within a week they all read. This wasn't because I'm so amazing at my job, or that we never paid attention or that these were such special weeks, but this was because even though we are trained to read people, what they say, what they do, how they behave, basically everything that they express, but even then we were missing so much, because you quickly start to listen to what they say and only pay attention to their major expression.

This is actually why a proper team is really interested in what new colleagues have to say, because you know so little about the people you are working with, that you observe much more then you normally do, you pick up the little things that your colleagues are missing.

In the end, any person who thinks body language is unimportant or mostly nonsense, has absolutely no idea about human interaction.
 
1/11/1995 ~ 23/11/2011
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What are you talking about? jMerliN rarely posts without proof, nor ignores facts throughout his statements. Sure, he may be strong-sided and not waive much in terms of discussion, but he doesn't post without proper background. It's not pathetic, it's knowledge; something we should all try to use as we post.

As for on-topic, I did some research on this for my psychology class and found some interesting things. Apparently, when you're talking to a girl, if you nonchalantly focus your eyes on their lips; they cannot help but to think of you in a sub-sexual mannerism.

I can see you're fairly new in the forum, clearly you haven't seen the way I've been arguing these past years in this forum. I have a lot of legit evidence to shut jMerlin's mouth, I just don't feel like it, as it will all be just a waste of time. Trust me, I've been there, I've debated with good people in this forum and turned out to be a nice debate, but jMerlin will just waste my time, I know it.
 
Ginger by design.
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Really? Because you only been just around. This guy has been banned the past 2 years lots of times because of all his BS nonsense.

Because once due primarily to mod abuse qualifies as "lots of times." If you're going to result to ad hominem to argue, at least try to get the facts correct. Simply put: two years ago, I would've been banned in this thread already for the same exact posts. Context matters.

Why is he talking poop now? Well mostly because he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. The simple fact is that I couldn't do my job without reading body language, I couldn't maintain my friendships etc.

Ad hominem #2, and the construction of a straw man. I never said body language does not exist. Don't construct arguments for me, especially ones I disagree with, just because they're easier to refute than what I've actually said.

Some people, like him, are absolutely blind to body language, they cannot see what some people truly mean and because they do not see it, they just assume it's not there.

Re-affirms straw man, ad hominem #3.

Don't get me wrong, it would be better if more people tell you what they are feeling, but they don't, and even I don't, I'm great at expressing myself verbally, yet sometimes I just prefer keeping things to myself, and that's fine, but it's also good that there are some people that can read you like a book, because as scary or uncomfortable it might be sometimes to talk about your feelings, it needs to be done and if they can read you well, then you won't need to tell them what you are feeling exactly either.

Pointless anecdote. To respond to this anecdote: people don't verbalize their feelings for various reasons, however if we're talking about friendships or relationships, a lack of verbalization is generally a failure in communication, which more often than not leads to a failed relationship. And the science demonstrates very consistently that this doesn't mean you can discern what they internalize from body language alone, or even a tiny percentage of it. If this were the case, our intelligence agencies would be able to do far better than they have in the past. Further, even if you were able to infer much from someone via body language, you make a fairly big mistake by assuming everyone is the same or that your reading is accurate, which can actually complicate things more (such as the strong anecdotal evidence that people "reading" their significant other leads to unnecessary, baseless fights that are more often the result of a lack of communication, but not what they are accused of).

Last year I observed a man for 3 weeks for an assignment, now this man was the subject in our team pretty much every day (heavily underwaged, alcoholic etc he died because of it), now I had been working with this man for months already. But now I started to truly observe him, not just what he said and did, but his facial expression, the way his body talked really. 8 pages later I found out things that I had not seen before, yet made perfect sense. My colleagues had the same, while my assignment was purely for school, within a week they all read. This wasn't because I'm so amazing at my job, or that we never paid attention or that these were such special weeks, but this was because even though we are trained to read people, what they say, what they do, how they behave, basically everything that they express, but even then we were missing so much, because you quickly start to listen to what they say and only pay attention to their major expression.

Pointless anecdote #2. As an interesting fact, what you're doing here sounds more like a psychological evaluation than it does "reading" any sort of nonverbal communication. Here's an interesting read:

This is actually why a proper team is really interested in what new colleagues have to say, because you know so little about the people you are working with, that you observe much more then you normally do, you pick up the little things that your colleagues are missing.

Another pointless anecdote, but I'll respond in kind with a contradictory anecdote. I have gone through a job change recently, and very little of the integration process was nonverbal, it was very much just getting to know people by actually talking to them. That includes a significant amount over chat-only protocols that completely preclude the possibility of any nonverbal cues at all. The face-to-face interaction serves more as a way of expressing common nonverbal communications (laughter, smiling, etc) and becoming comfortable with other peoples' mannerisms, which makes bonding and becoming comfortable with others much easier, which makes it significantly easier to trust others. None of this, though, has to do with anything that isn't extremely well understood and confirmed in science.

In the end, any person who thinks body language is unimportant or mostly nonsense, has absolutely no idea about human interaction.

Ad hominem #4. I'm professionally successful in a career that requires me to successfully communicate and interact with other individuals, constantly. I'd say that contradicts the insult you attempted to make quite well, but also serves to demonstrate how incorrect your assumption is, as you're still arguing towards the straw man you constructed.

If you'd like to actually make a point, or refute anything I've said, feel free. In the mean time, I will continue to enjoy your personal insults. I'm almost out of popcorn though, so do hurry along. I really don't feel like going to the store.
 
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