Hi Flyff users, please read

[FrostElite]

We need more mods , actual people who've been here since the birth of the section.

 

[Dell Honne]

We need more mods , actual people who've been here since the birth of the section.

Moderator status should be given by experience, activity and reputation.

For instance, a new person joined 3 months ago and applies. He has 3 years experience moderating other forums, he's active every day and is always helpful.

I would nominate him.

Another one is let's say a member has been here before the section was even made and he's active 50% of the time, he is also known for flaming/trolling and getting infractions.

I wouldn't nominate him.

Someone being here from the section's birth just means they are active.

Oh well, that's how I see things, maybe the super mods do it another way and maybe you guys prefer it the opposite way. Either way, an opinion is an opinion and one person's view might not be the same as another person.

@Apixen, maybe that rule can be changed to "Threads made for gloating will be deleted and the user will be infracted"

 

[Adler]

In my opinion, deleting posts never solves anything. It angers the member and makes them feel censored and they just post the same thing again. It NEVER works. If this section is re-hauled then mods need to stop deleting posts so often, it's really annoying and members loath it with a passion.

 

[Dell Honne]

In my opinion, deleting posts never solves anything. It angers the member and makes them feel censored and they just post the same thing again. It NEVER works. If this section is re-hauled then mods need to stop deleting posts so often, it's really annoying and members loath it with a passion.

When a post is deleted it usually means:

1. It's spam
2. It's off-topic
3. It's just someone flaming/trolling.

To me it's more of a member issue because your supposed to delete #1 and #3 not too sure about #2 but yes, if member stop making spam/flame posts then that means less post deleted.

@The guy who just posted the screenshot, I was talking about the flame threads about glaphan not the section ROFL.

 

[Organic]

Having a higher class release section goes against the spirit of Ragezone.
Although the section could use some new rules and a new method of organization (Development/Release split into something like Maps, Programs, and Server Edits), you have to keep in mind that the Flyff private server scene has always enjoyed drama. A lot of servers butt heads, even on these forums. Best way to fix that would be to have a nice big fat rule containing the words "NO shenanigans". Not literally, of course, but you catch my driftttt.

tl;dr: ty for the clean up and devoting your time to whipping this section into shape. new organization would be nice. majority of the people in the flyff scene are dix. :<

 

[ZuminaSpanky]

I'll put my two cents in even though I will be flamed.

The flyff dev community isn't like other sections (for some reason). Flyff's development community is... more counter productive than anything. If it means someone can get ahead and stab someone in the back, they would. Its always going to be someone gloating because they created something that is superior to someone else's system.

I won't say its a good or bad thing. I am just saying that the issue is not the forum organization.

If any organization is done, make it so gloat threads are in a section that would be purposely inactive. That way it can still spring ideas forward but make it so the gloaters won't be given the benefit.

The release section needing approval may be a good thing. This would prevent someone releasing something which would intentionally hurt the flyff community. I hate the threads that say, "Well I am releasing this, and it could be used negatively, but its purpose is for 'Educational Purposes only'". Threads like that of course should be killed in an instant.

 

[CrashOveride]

Ok people need to get back to what Dios wanted, Suggestions not spamming/trolling/complaining/flaming which has already plagued this thread.

Dios is actually trying to help this section but if people are just going to troll/flame etc in this thread then they will receive bans from myself.

You have been warned.

Crash

 

[PinstripeMan]

^^ This kind of attitude right there is what's wrong with this section. Nobody takes the mods or higher seriously. We threaten, and they laugh. They believe if they are wronged they can go hire some no talent hacker to do their job for them.

Seriously, I hope this place gets back to where it originally was when I first came here. A place where people can all work towards the same goal.

Since the release of caali files, the goal was skewed and pushed aside to make for the quickness and ignorance of getting something up and running. People were trampling others over getting servers up, here and there.

WE started getting people back into coding once everyone was convinced the files were crap. 3 or 4 devs were going back and forth DragonFlyFF->Rhisis, OSAFlyFF->Morpheus and RuneFlyFF. 3 big dev projects and 3/4 of the section still wanted something now. No one bothered to help except a handful of skilled people who have since left this place because of the generosity people gave around here.

Then the release of v11 files and everyone started running around like chickens on Col. Sanders farm. Half of them couldn't figure out how to get the MsSQL working and the other half knew and didn't bother to help. I didn't want the files being released here for the sole reason that I knew where they came from and how they came to be acquired. Obviously that was a GREAT injustice to this section that I deny people who couldn't even get a caali server working properly the chance to try their hand at the official files. Well, enough people bitched and moaned and got their way. So that pretty much sums up where this place turned. I won't go into detail about the source code because everyone acts like Gollum from Lord of the Rings when you ask for help on that part.

This place went from helping each other get past the character select screen to forget that server files are here to lets code some projects to scrap that the officials are here.

Do you see a pattern? People abandon actual work in order to get something for nothing and then ask a billion questions on how it works just to get shunned by people who don't want others as smart as them.

Recently there has been almost an iron curtain around here that anything dev related or showing the potential of the source code was simply against the rules. No matter how much you try and explain it to these people they have something to say while behind the scenes they don't want it released because it makes X server look bad.

If anything is going to change, it has to be the attitude of this section. Never in all my years of moderating forums, chatrooms, and game servers (non-mmo) did I see such arrogance to helping someone in need. Complete and total arrogance and ignorance at the same time. No one sees the big picture. You see this kind of crap on the WoW servers or Maple Servers? Not nearly as much because the entire sections put faith in their devs. They aren't to backstab them at the earliest convenience. That's why WoW servers dominate the private MMO scene and always will. Flyff is barely in the top 20. Everyone is butting their heads against the wall or warring on other servers. Its very immature and highly childish. I would rather a server be offline due to high volume or server bugs than hear of DDoS attacks or hacking, both of which are so immature its pathetic.

I guarantee if you were to put up a hacker against the person they hacked, the hacker would get the snot beat out of them because hackers are so frail and nerdy. once in a while they learn to defend themselves but mostly they run and hide in their nerd caves.

Dios / Crash and the other Uppers, do me a solid favor: Listen to what these kids have to say but in the end, make your judgement call. I trust you will make the right decision because you have a little more experience in managing a larger forum than I do. You are doing what I always envisioned to do with this place. Do not let it become a war zone that pits server against server. Oh, and make sure these new mods actually don't have a previous agenda. You don't need mods asserting their authority solely for the gain of their little server.

 

[Dios]

Guys, want it or not, things will change. Noobs will be eliminated. Its not a threat, its a reality.

Edit: This is how it works, you write a lot of crap, waste a lot of time and I delete in a second. It would be better to use your time developing, cause all the time you spend arguing and not replying with what I asked for will be useless.

I find amazing how some of you want this to fail, but you can't stop it. When you failed, we shall succeed.

 

[Thrinaria]

I wish you goodluck.
I've been into this mess without really doing anything.
What I want is a clean forum.
Try not to delete shenanigans that has been replied on ( instead, edit and just be liek /flame)
A private section will ruin the spirit.
Best wishes to all and happy new year.
Thrin

 

[Adler]

This forum needs to not be as strict as others in the sense that posts are deleted for no reason, people are infracted while others aren't and topics are closed without good reason. If a topic starter gets flamed, and he flames back, the topic should be closed and the topic starter should be warned as well as the flamer. If a load of spam posts are made, the spammers should be dealt with and the topic closed temporarily until the spammers leave.

There are really good ways to deal with spammers and trolls. For one, you can't act like a hard butt towards them. If you act negatively towards a troll/spammer/hacker, they will do the same back. CrashOveride did it 100% right by taking it into his hands and dealing with it maturely without any insults or witty remarks. A perfect moderator can show emotions such as happiness, laughter, etc., but when it comes to moderating all those emotions must be shoved aside until the moderating is done. Moderators should never punish because they're pissed off, they should ban because the person broke the rules. A true moderator doesn't get pissed off when he/she is flamed, etc.

This section needs an active moderator as well, not just a good one. A moderator with a lot of FlyFF knowledge, who can tell the difference between MysQL and MSSQL, supports sharing to a limit and knows how to run a server. If that's asking too much, then they should have at least one trait that's good enough. A moderator that favors servers or hates servers shouldn't be moderator unless the server gives a good reason to be hated. There should be 0% bias and favoritism within moderation.

Rules should be right there in the open for all to see and they need to be constructed wisely by a higher up and/or a moderator. Mods shouldn't have anything against each other and they should all work together to do what is right for this community. There should be no tolerance for spamming, flaming, etc stated in the rules as well as advertising (in titles, sigs, threads, etc). The FlyFF section has turned into an advertisement portal where server owners do nothing but advertise or show off VERY VERY VERY PASSIVELY!!!!! Mods need to be able to notice passive actions such as advertising or flame baiting. Making a thread with a feature of your server and having your server name in every place but the thread should still count as advertising.

If the mods rid of all advertisements that will be a first step. Server owners will stop advertising and people will start posting about other things. The biggest problem with the FlyFF community is competition. This is a very dirty and criminal community. Everybody steals from each other, hacks each other, flames each other, hates each other.... the list goes on. That can obviously be changed by the way this section is ran. This section needs to be able to attract big time developers and coders who love to share and don't care about "leechers". Having private sharing will just cause more problems since not only will true leechers be affected by it, but others who DO give credit and aren't leechers will be affected as well.

So yes, the key things this section needs are unbiased, knowledgeable and active moderators, rules that are enforced the RIGHT way as well as 24/7. People who break the rules need to be dealt in the most unbiased way possible. That should mean mods shouldn't give out witty comebacks, needing to have the last word when closing topics or flaming others while supporting another flamer, etc. (sorry if I'm repeating myself). This forum should also be checked often, at least once or twice a week by a higher up to make sure it's going well and mods aren't abusing power and members aren't acting out.

This will all take baby steps, but with everybody's unbiased suggestions thrown together and used to build a better community, this section can easily be what it should and not the chaotic section it is now.

Edit by Dios. Fixed, sorry, I missed it. I remove the part addressing a user and not the threads topic.

 

[xHeinrich]

As I sayed before my post was deleted. Add 4/5 sections to the release section being:
Maps
2d
3d
code
miscellaneous(anything tool related/server file related that doesn't belong in the other sections.

This MAY help organize the release section further.

 

[PinstripeMan]

I don't want this to fail and since Dios is on the case I have faith the section will get back to its former glory.

Have the release section split up may seem like a good idea but infact it will give mods a headache. We have 3 sections now and it took a LONG time to get people to realize what thread goes where. There would be more work than ease of use.

However, I think a separate section for showcasing things is a good idea. It would give people a lot of reasons to start developing things.

 

[xHeinrich]

I don't want this to fail and since Dios is on the case I have faith the section will get back to its former glory.

Have the release section split up may seem like a good idea but infact it will give mods a headache. We have 3 sections now and it took a LONG time to get people to realize what thread goes where. There would be more work than ease of use.

However, I think a separate section for showcasing things is a good idea. It would give people a lot of reasons to start developing things.

I disagree, splitting it into sections would show members what goes were and if they have half a brain would see were the release goes as the section would be like "Map releases" not just a section saying Releases. Catch my drift?tt1:

 

[Dell Honne]

This forum needs to not be as strict as others in the sense that posts are deleted for no reason, people are infracted while others aren't and topics are closed without good reason. If a topic starter gets flamed, and he flames back, the topic should be closed and the topic starter should be warned as well as the flamer. If a load of spam posts are made, the spammers should be dealt with and the topic closed temporarily until the spammers leave.

There are really good ways to deal with spammers and trolls. For one, you can't act like a hard butt towards them. If you act negatively towards a troll/spammer/hacker, they will do the same back. CrashOveride did it 100% right by taking it into his hands and dealing with it maturely without any insults or witty remarks. A perfect moderator can show emotions such as happiness, laughter, etc., but when it comes to moderating all those emotions must be shoved aside until the moderating is done. Moderators should never punish because they're pissed off, they should ban because the person broke the rules. A true moderator doesn't get pissed off when he/she is flamed, etc.

This section needs an active moderator as well, not just a good one. A moderator with a lot of FlyFF knowledge, who can tell the difference between MysQL and MSSQL, supports sharing to a limit and knows how to run a server. If that's asking too much, then they should have at least one trait that's good enough. A moderator that favors servers or hates servers shouldn't be moderator unless the server gives a good reason to be hated. There should be 0% bias and favoritism within moderation.

Rules should be right there in the open for all to see and they need to be constructed wisely by a higher up and/or a moderator. Mods shouldn't have anything against each other and they should all work together to do what is right for this community. There should be no tolerance for spamming, flaming, etc stated in the rules as well as advertising (in titles, sigs, threads, etc). The FlyFF section has turned into an advertisement portal where server owners do nothing but advertise or show off VERY VERY VERY PASSIVELY!!!!! Mods need to be able to notice passive actions such as advertising or flame baiting. Making a thread with a feature of your server and having your server name in every place but the thread should still count as advertising.

If the mods rid of all advertisements that will be a first step. Server owners will stop advertising and people will start posting about other things. The biggest problem with the FlyFF community is competition. This is a very dirty and criminal community. Everybody steals from each other, hacks each other, flames each other, hates each other.... the list goes on. That can obviously be changed by the way this section is ran. This section needs to be able to attract big time developers and coders who love to share and don't care about "leechers". Having private sharing will just cause more problems since not only will true leechers be affected by it, but others who DO give credit and aren't leechers will be affected as well.

So yes, the key things this section needs are unbiased, knowledgeable and active moderators, rules that are enforced the RIGHT way as well as 24/7. People who break the rules need to be dealt in the most unbiased way possible. That should mean mods shouldn't give out witty comebacks, needing to have the last word when closing topics or flaming others while supporting another flamer, etc. (sorry if I'm repeating myself). This forum should also be checked often, at least once or twice a week by a higher up to make sure it's going well and mods aren't abusing power and members aren't acting out.

This will all take baby steps, but with everybody's unbiased suggestions thrown together and used to build a better community, this section can easily be what it should and not the chaotic section it is now.

I feel so misunderstood when reading that.

We tried to limit the ways a person can advertise their server (hence the image with server name rule) which almost solved the problem imo.

Other than the infraction spam that happened this/last week, nobody gives out infractions unless something serious happens, and if both sides are at fault then both sides get a warning.

The thing is, when a moderator makes a decision it tends to please one side and piss off the other side, this is where things get out of hand because the thread owner complains about an infraction, complains about his thread being gone and then starts flaming everywhere. Even if the moderator is trying to do something fairly, it's always seen as him picking one side even though it might not be.

By the way I still don't get how coding has to do with being a moderator

Also, I agree with the splitting of the release section, it makes things more easier which will make moderating the section faster and easier.

Edit: I know moderators might be a big issue for now but can we first focus on the section itself THEN work our way to moderators? That would make things much more organized and dios will get more ideas for the section that way.

Last Edit: May I present to you all the new help section:

http://forum.ragezone.com/f483/

I left the first page because it consists over more recent threads.

 

[PinstripeMan]

I disagree, splitting it into sections would show members what goes were and if they have half a brain would see were the release goes as the section would be like "Map releases" not just a section saying Releases. Catch my drift?tt1:

And trust me, as a member's point of view it would be a great thing, do not get me wrong. I'm just telling why they (the mods+) would be apprehensive because many people will get confused, at first, to where what goes where.

Dell: I agree with you 100%. You know how hard it is to be a balanced person, but at the same time you cannot overlook real development.

Did anyone ever think that perhaps instead of complaining about a thread, you should be more encouraging to that person's hard work which would encourage them to release it even if they said they wouldn't.

People cannot have it one way around here because nothing gets accomplished.

is there a reason my name is part of the tags? or MentaL's for that matter.

Thats another thing that should not be publically changed is the tags. The tags should only be edited by the thread author.

 

[Dell Honne]

And trust me, as a member's point of view it would be a great thing, do not get me wrong. I'm just telling why they (the mods+) would be apprehensive because many people will get confused, at first, to where what goes where.

Dell: I agree with you 100%. You know how hard it is to be a balanced person, but at the same time you cannot overlook real development.

Did anyone ever think that perhaps instead of complaining about a thread, you should be more encouraging to that person's hard work which would encourage them to release it even if they said they wouldn't.

People cannot have it one way around here because nothing gets accomplished.

is there a reason my name is part of the tags? or MentaL's for that matter.

Thats another thing that should not be publically changed is the tags. The tags should only be edited by the thread author.

Exactly, I talked about this before as well. Instead of saying "Your wasting your time" or "Your design looks like it was made in paint" why not say "Good start bro, maybe add this to it (insert helpful thing)" or "Try adding colors that compliment each other, also maybe add a sidebar?"

We are supposed to be a community right? So instead of dragging each other down trying to reach first place why don't we just team up and get there together >_> I'm pretty sure winning with others is better than winning by yourself unless your a glory hog but meh.

Community = Family = Bros/sisters.

You know there was that movie and the guys were like "BROS BEFORE HOES" lol.

Last thing: Cleaning is about 80% done or so...? Waiting for Dios to check it for me.

 

[Jazzle]

Why not change the Release section name to Tutorial section? So that insteed of people releasing full things they type a tutorial/guide to help doing things and lern it out to the "leechers". If im correct ragezone is for helping eachother in development of a game, when people that know these things already (no names) just post threads to show off their development and kinda advertise a little since everyone mostly know what server they on.

People need to start help eachother to improov and not just keep their knowledge for themself.

 

[PinstripeMan]

Oh, lawday no! They will delete everything they deem necessary just like this post.

@Dell: Glad the cleaning is almost done.

@Jazzle: Why not just put a Tutorial section inside the release section or make it a stand alone section by itself. I think that is a necessary change.

 

[Adler]

Why not change the Release section name to Tutorial section? So that insteed of people releasing full things they type a tutorial/guide to help doing things and lern it out to the "leechers". If im correct ragezone is for helping eachother in development of a game, when people that know these things already (no names) just post threads to show off their development and kinda advertise a little since everyone mostly know what server they on.

People need to start help eachother to improov and not just keep their knowledge for themself.

A perfect layout:

Tutorials
Help
Release
-Map/2D/3D
-Server
-Etc
Development
-Map/2D/3D
-Server
-Etc