Paypal - "You can't help poor children"

[exclamatio]

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As you know, we have been trying to buy Christmas presents for kids in the Regretsy community.

We took many applications, vetted them carefully and set about creating a giant gift exchange program, where you could buy a gift for the over 200 children we’re helping.

We raised so much money that we found ourselves in a position of not just being able to send toys, but to send a monetary gift to the families as well. We hoped it might help them make their holiday dinners more special, or maybe pay a pressing bill.

PAYPAL SHUT IT DOWN

Apparently we made the mistake of using the “Donate” button, which Paypal is now claiming is only for nonprofit organizations to use. They froze the account, which also includes Zazzle money that we use to make emergency gifts. That money isn’t in issue, but what the hell! Might as well keep everything!

So last night, I decided to go about this a different way. Since these toys are already purchased, I decided to offer them up for sale on this site, just like any other retailer would. You could buy them according to what you wanted to spend, and we would send them on to the recipient of your gift, just like any other retailer.

PAYPAL SHUT IT DOWN

After a very long and jaw-dropping conversation with an incredibly condescending representative, they have decided that I must refund all the donations and purchases that have not been processed. If you don’t get a refund, it’s because we got your money before they got smart and kept us from helping children at Christmas, which is really the best move any corporation can make.

Here are a few highlights from our conversation:


YOU CAN ONLY HELP CATS

PAYPAL: Only a nonprofit can use the Donate button.
ME: That’s false. It says right in the PDF of instructions for the Donate button that it can be used for “worthy causes.”
PAYPAL: I haven’t seen that PDF. And what you’re doing is not a worthy cause, it’s charity.
ME: What’s the difference?
PAYPAL: You can use the donate button to raise money for a sick cat, but not poor people.

YOU HAVE TO START A NEW WEBSITE

ME: The problem is I’ve already bought all of these toys, so now I’m really in a position like any other merchant – which is to say, I have inventory I need to sell. Why can’t I sell them as gifts, like any other retailer?
PAYPAL: Don’t you think it would look suspicious if the same people bought them again?
ME: Why? These are my customers!
PAYPAL: If you wanted to do that, you’d have to start a new website.
ME: What? Why would I start a new website?
PAYPAL: I’m not going to argue with you.

WE WILL TRACK YOUR SHIPMENTS

PAYPAL: The only way you’d be allowed to sell these as gifts is if you sent them directly to the person who bought them. And we will track your shipments and make sure it goes to the buyer.
ME: That’s discriminatory! You don’t make other retailers send purchases to the buyer only, especially not at Christmas.
PAYPAL: No one but a nonprofit would send gifts to someone else on buyer’s behalf.
ME: What about Amazon?
PAYPAL: We know what you’re doing and we’re through playing games with you.

YOU’LL NEVER GET AWAY WITH THIS

PAYPAL: You say you’re selling these as gifts but there is no information as to what the gift is.
ME: People sell mystery gifts and grab bags all the time. What about sites where they say, let us choose for you?”
PAYPAL: It doesn’t say that on your site.
ME: Is that the problem? If I say it’s a mystery gift would that be sufficient?
PAYPAL: You aren’t going to be able to get around this. It’s too late, we know what you’re trying to do and we’re not going to let you do it.
ME: But there are hundreds of toys! Do you think it’s reasonable to create a drop down menu for hundreds of gifts, all of them different, and create an inventory for each as “one?” So that every time one sells, it’s sold out, and the customer has to keep choosng options and going through check out to see if they can find a gift that’s still available?
PAYPAL: Yes, I think it’s reasonable.

Then my brain exploded.

At this point, I asked to speak to a supervisor and was told that “No one above me will talk to you. No one at my level ever makes phone calls. We’re only doing this to help you.”

When I asked how to close my account, he said I had to “refund everything, write a letter saying you understood what you did WAS WRONG AND YOU WILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN, and then request permission to close your account.”

Then, for good measure, they froze my personal account, which has revenue from my book sales, e-books and all the other Finnish Folktales Swag. They’ll be holding that money for 6 months.

So to recap:

$ They allowed me to use a donate button, and got a portion of the donations
$ Then made me return the donations, and kept a portion of the fees on the donations
$ They allowed me to use a Buy Now button to sell gifts individually, and got a portion of those sales
$ Then made me return the sales, and kept a portion of the fees on the sales
$ They processed the toy purchases, and made fees on that

They have made a fortune for not doing anything but making me manually return thousands of $2 sales and contributions.

I have been able to guarantee purchase and shipment of the toys, so that part is happening, as are the letters from Santa (most have already been delivered).

However, I am very sorry to say that at this point, I am not able to make a monetary gift to the families. They have frozen everything that was not already spent or donated, and I have no more funds to make a gift of that size.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

Wanna tell Paypal how you feel? Here’s a list of every administrative Paypal email address and phone number The Consumerist was able to find.

 

[MentaL]

Paypal are the worst company I've personally delt with. I've been personally blacklisted for RaGEZONE subscriptions then they blocked my girlfriend for just using the same IP and stuff as me. Horrible company and a sham to say the least.

 

[Darksta]

duck YOU PAYPAL!

-sorry for inappropriate language-

but i have had so many issues with them, i just use direct credit card payments now because going through with them, is just a horrible ideal.

 

[MentaL]

Excellent follow-up to the original article at;

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[Delici0us]

Hey,
I absolutely feel the pain all of you are experiencing with this hideous hive of a company; they seem to believe the merchants (like me) sell our goods to make PayPal a war-chest that they can use to invest with. There policies are the same as Eric Cartmans in the Crack Baby Football episode.

I recently sold and shipped £1,000’s of DVD media and non-contract phones; I managed to remove £6,000 before PayPal decided that the remaining money was there’s for 180-days due to HIGH RISK associated with the transaction, what annoys me most about this? I’ve been using PayPal for near on 7 years without fail I pay all my fees.

The money in the account is not profit; it pays bills, suppliers, couriers. However, trying to tell someone money donated for needy children is NOT ALLOWED is Ducking disgusting, when it comes to my own money I care – But it’s not the end of the world for me, I work a full time job. These children have nothing (or very little) and PayPal have chosen to shank them in the ribs with their corrupt policy.

One thing needs to happen to PayPal and that’s a permanent “duck off” – The only people who are losing out from this at the moment is PayPal as soon as a refund is issued the other user can either withdraw it or request a chargeback from there bank. Chargebacks cost PayPal money, and piss them off.

TL;DR – PayPal are scum. duck them.

 

[MentaL]

They just shut down a model / photography based website too;

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[Jolin88]

paypal froze my account because I sent money to an account and it was later sent back instead of pressing the REFUND button it was sent back, paypal saw this as suspicious and froze my account asking for impossible to deliver information such as shipping information, the money was just borrowed no shipping and crap was done it was personal

 

[nzrock]

duck YOU PAYPAL!

-sorry for inappropriate language-

It's ok, we all hate them too

 

[Dawson]

It's ok, we all hate them too

I just read their 26,000 word ToS and I am /never/ using paypal for large transfers... like ever. It's WAY too easy to loose that $ for good.

I'll continue to use it for $20-100 because thats chump change but wow...


SO yeah, I hate them now too.

 

[derpe]

duck YOU PAYPAL

That covers my opinion on the matter. Never going to use paypal for anything, humble indie bundle be damned.

 

[rebora2007]

I just feel that they are so unprofessional for such a big company ...

 

[SXMaple]

it's worked fine for me... don't have more than 1 acc / per ip

 

[Jolin88]

it's worked fine for me... don't have more than 1 acc / per ip

it only works fine as long as you're not getting ANY money from it

 

[Sir Kidd]

Ok,
I do not agree with paypal but the user is also at fault. There is a GIFT function on paypal also. Paypals terms of service are pretty clear in the matter of what donation can be used for so really it is a lack of knowledge on the users part.

I my self have had many people gift me payments for work instead of donate or paying. If you send an item as a GIFT paypal will not touch it. Some times you may get a call asking what the gift was regarding but normally a simply. "It was a gift to a friend of mine thats all" they can not do any thing about it.

 

[Aaron]

I'm pretty sure they were receiving the money as "gifts", as there is no "donate" option when sending/receiving money via IPN form, or sending it directly through the website. If they were receiving the money via "service", then maybe it was their own fault? Which I highly doubt.

They can touch your money-- I've had numerous amounts of chargebacks. The ones over $100 I fought for and normally won, others I didn't mind. All of the payments I received were labeled as "gifts", however, the donator received their "item" immediately, whereas this wasn't the case here (that's where PayPal's argument comes in).

I never had an issue with Paypal... besides chargebacks of course, and my PS was making decent income, we made over 15k in 6 months.

It's pretty sad seeing paypal shut these guys down for having such a good thing planned that would have helped a bunch of families in need. :/

 

[El Jamie]

That's disgraceful!

 

[Dynaxo]

It just gets worse and worse, how far will they go? And how the hell did they get such a large amount of customers with service like that? Not only are they making them give them the money back, they are paying paypal for something which is obviously doing nothing wrong.

 

[anoob123]

It's horrible, for sure, but look on the bright side! One of the Paypal executives lives less than 2 hours away from me!

 

[Hejula]

This is being blown out of proportion, this is real money involved. The whole "You can't help poor children" title on this thread is ridiculous. PayPal are sticking by there Terms of Service, and they are right to do so. However once this charity or whatever can send some sort of evidence to PayPal that they are a non-profit organization, I am sure the account will be unlocked again. I have every faith in PayPal and they have only done good for me in the past. Just my views on the situation, please do not hate me for them!

 

[MentaL]

This is being blown out of proportion, this is real money involved. The whole "You can't help poor children" title on this thread is ridiculous. PayPal are sticking by there Terms of Service, and they are right to do so. However once this charity or whatever can send some sort of evidence to PayPal that they are a non-profit organization, I am sure the account will be unlocked again. I have every faith in PayPal and they have only done good for me in the past. Just my views on the situation, please do not hate me for them!

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