Regarding this section

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I am MentaL
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Hi,

This section has always been frustrating for myself due to members whom dislike other members and so on but lately it's been getting to a point where I may just rather close the section from future postings. I've never myself been involved with the developments of Flyff but a lot of people take pride in their work so when a user posts constructive criticism he or she will generally get a lot of flames in return whether it's justified or not.

To salvage this section and to keep EVERYONE happy what do you propose we do about the section? What rules do you dislike and why? Which moderators are you unhappy with and for what VALID reasons? How would you run the section instead? Reply here in a polite manner and I shall review everything when time allows me and we will go from there.

Thanks.
 
Warnings should be given out faster and trough pm's instead of a post in the thread.
A post in the thread will make the flamer flame on the moderator and continue the discussion on the same thread.
Bringing it as a private message would take the discussion else where. Also Moderators SUPPOSE to have private messaging from members allowed since sending it somewhere where everyone can read it won't be nice :) I had trouble sending a pm to a moderator here...

Also I've no idea why the "huge" flaming thread become so huge deal. I mean Moderators suppose to be able to deal with flame wars without the owner now threatening us for closing this section.

That makes this topic kinda weird. Just saying.
 
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One of the main thing that bugs me the most in this section, is the help section.

According to the help section rules, you're permitted to use the search function before making a thread. 90% of the threads posted the last few months have already been answered before, 90% of the cases. Non of the people posting there does a proper search before writing a thread, cause writing and waiting seems like an easier option. This is suppose to be considered a rule violation, and rule violations are suppose, again according to the thread, to result in warning/infraction. Not once in my time here at RaGEZONE, have I seen a guy receiving an infraction or warning for a stupid question asked in the help section.

It's obvious, why most developers grows tired of this section. Cause there is nothing new happening really. Same questions are repeated a hundred times. That's pretty much how we can describe the FlyFF section: "Stupid questions, answered a hundred times before, being asked another hundred times." Well, we do have some shitty releases that comes and goes too, but else then that there is really nothing.

So how do we solve this? First of all, we need more moderation, better moderation. In order to keep the sections clean, more moderators are required. Error 404 is doing his job fine, Improved I'm not so sure anymore. I haven't seen a post from him in ages. We should get moderators that contributes to the section more then just deleting spam, handling flame wars and dealing with reported posts. There are no motivation from them, it's like their doing their job with half effort. It's like their trying to keep the section as it is, which is pretty bad, instead of actually improving it.

Also, according to the moderators list at the bottom of the section, it says MuIsBest as one of the moderators. Who is that? Have I ever seen a post from him in the FlyFF section? NO.

Get more, and motivated moderators. Follow the rules you've set, and do the procedure correctly.

That's my suggestion to improve this section.
 
Development's dead here and always has been. The only thing that gets released are re-releases from epvp, or here, and occasionally one "new" release, but that's pretty rare, in my opinion. so what ever happens to the section is probably for the better.

@bold: (Pretty much the majority are from epvps)
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/source-snippets-840751/
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/edwards-controlpanel-v1-3-rev2-872718/
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/place-destiny-filles-source-client-852446/
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/place-destiny-filles-source-client-852446/
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/source-v19-released-working-edit-862018/
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/awsome-website-866503/
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/source-functional-colosseum-766259/
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/v19-offical-files-847494/
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/lucidsoft-dos-protection-859961/
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/simple-black-flyff-website-857363/
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/release-full-v17-database-843351/
http://forum.ragezone.com/f457/sod-source-files-client-847449/

Oh, and for the "flaming" bit of the argument for closing the section, that's a pretty valid argument. There's a lot of flame that goes on here.


Also, according to the moderators list at the bottom of the section, it says MuIsBest as one of the moderators. Who is that? Have I ever seen a post from him in the FlyFF section? NO.

That's called a supervisor. They don't necessarily need to post in the sections they're in charge of. I'm sure their priority is to make sure the moderators do their job.
 
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Development's dead here and always has been. The only thing that gets released are re-releases from epvp, or here, and occasionally one "new" release, but that's pretty rare, in my opinion. so what ever happens to the section is probably for the better.

Join Date Jun 2012
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Idk but you are here for a short amount of time to give any opinions about releases.
I release somethings sometimes. People like it I release more. Things don't just fall down from the sky... In other sections it also takes a while for a new noticeable release :thumbup1: You might not notice the "small" releases but they are releases. I've seen websites things being released and today a new source edit and some model(Or texture). 2 Releases in 1 day! People don't make things everyday...
For me your opinion is invalid.

People know this section from the bad things. That like happen ones every while(1time a year?). Doesn't mean the whole section should be closed. Just make the "bad" guys behave.
 
Mabey a sort of system where you always need to do a search before making a new thread in the help section?

Also, the problem with the flame nowdays is that there are still some people left who always have to complain on every release for them "stealing their work". Pretty much all development on private servers is illegal and stolen so crying over something like this is kinda pathetic.

Also as said before, a Moderator who actually can take charge in the development. We had it before, and this "lovely" community scared them away.

And whenever someones post gets deleted it would be nice if the moderators contacted you, either manually or automaticly when your post get's deleted. It is sort of annoying when you can't find your post, and a lot of posts gets deleted since every small detail starts a flame war here, wich is sad.

@Objected That's actually good that people bring our Colleges from Germany's work over here. Not everyone can speak their language.
 
Just because my register date says one thing doesn't mean I haven't been on RaGEZONE for...3 years I think?

-Apixen

It also mean he didn't know who you where. People judge after their facts. That's just how we work.
Anyways lets just stop this before a flame war starts, lol.
 
Moderators who understand FlyFF thoroughly(tools, source and resource releases in particular) and can properly moderate and control and keep neat this section through means of understanding these systems are needed. Currently as I see it, and as far as I am aware, no moderator understands what half of the releases are or do at first glance or even if they have been reposed multiple times. Moderators shouldn't just be "moderating" per say, in a section were development is at a stand still but rather should be assisting in reviving it. So in essence I shall answer your questions:

To salvage this section and to keep EVERYONE happy what do you propose we do about the section? Bring forth active moderators which know up-to-date knowledge about FlyFF and its workings.

What rules do you dislike and why? Which moderators are you unhappy with and for what VALID reasons?
None, the current rule set is fine.

How would you run the section instead? As stated before hand, bring forth active and knowledgeable moderators, remove in-active and non-contributing ones.
 
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One of the things this section needs thought towards: this section is too strict. I'm not saying lift the rules on flaming, keep those there. But there are rules enforced where I can't even use the word "****" without receiving an infraction from a moderator. Posting constructive criticism or speaking my mind freely is considered "spam." The moderators should clean posts that flame others, insult others, or cause trouble. They should also remove any topics not related to Flyff or in the wrong section. But in other fields, such as cussing in a non-insulting manner, or chatting off-topic on a related topic for a bit? Please.... We need to actually enjoy this section for once instead of wondering when an angry moderator will come by and delete 20 posts just because they started discussing another Flyff topic that wasn't related to the original topic.

Now, what I propose is that, unless a post is insulting another, dangerous or inappropriate, it should NOT be deleted. If it's off topic, who cares? A moderator can post "Hey now, stay on topic!" and that's that. There's no need for stealthy mass deletions of 100 posts. There's no need for censorship. This scene, as well as every other private server scene, HATES censorship. When we see bullshit like ACTA, SOPA, etc, do we go "Hey let's do what they do!" But you do exactly that. I can't curse, I can't post even SLIGHTLY off topic without fearing I'll be slapped with an infraction. This causes me to lose disrespect and receive infractions that I actually did deserve.

I know this post will most likely be ignored due to my history with infractions, but you need to understand that our two previous moderators were some of the worst, Dell Honne and GlaphanKing. The only reason DellHonne wasn't hacked to death like Glaphan was the loss of hope in this section. This place used to be chill and fun, excluding GlaphanKing and DellHonne inventing rules and censoring, deleting and infracting out of bias. It was once active, full of developers actually working on projects together. What happened? Everybody gets scared away. There are a few here who will disagree, as they just see me as a trouble maker and like it when moderators strike back and post some "Hey I own you ;D" post warning me, which they can like 1000 times. That's fine. I break the rules sometimes and I shouldn't, but I would most likely never tend to if the moderators actually treated the members here like human beings and not mindless drones.

As for moderators, you need to hire somebody that actually knows the Flyff section and scene well. Some of the current and past moderators have no idea what they're doing and don't know how to handle this section. They think mass deleting 20 posts and infracting everybody is going to fix anything? Do you respect a police officer when he beats the **** out of you? No, you hate his guts and want to kill him. If a moderator treats the members like human beings, and actually puts some effort into handling issues without bias, then this place would be a lot nicer.

A moderator that sees two flame posts, one legit post, one somewhat flame baiting post, what does he do? Here, all 4 posts are instantly deleted, censored off the face of the Earth. Infractions and warnings handed out to all of them. That isn't the case. That's pure laziness and shitty moderating. What you do is warn or infract the two flame posts if you haven't already, warn the flame baiter in a PM so he knows he can risk an official warning or infraction, and leave the legit person alone. Then you delete the two flame baiting posts, edit any posts that quote it, leave the legit post up and if the flame baiter doesn't edit their post, delete it as well. If it's minor and nobody replies to it, leave it up. Yes, mods, you actually have to push some effort into moderating instead of mass infracting and banning and deleting like Dell Honne used to do. He even openly admitted he infracted every single person involved in a topic such as that. That's just corrupt and biased.

Another thing is re-releases. Nearly everything here is a copy+paste of somebody elses work from another German forum, or a re-hash of existing work. Nobody puts any effort into releasing or developing anything anymore. People hate each other too much from all the stupid flame wars here. I'd love to start a clean slate with a lot of people here, but I know I've acted out too much for that. The reason everything is re-released from another forum is because that other forum is more active. It's not because it's older, or because Germans like Flyff more. It's the fact that this section has scared too many people off, whether its members flaming each other or moderators censoring its members, people have been scared off.

A final note to MentaL, Flyff as a whole is dying. The official servers are pure **** right now and the developers haven't made anything new in months. This, however, isn't a bad thing, as it should make developers here self reliant, no? Sadly, this isn't the case. Most developers on this scene are extremely lazy. People don't make their own weapons, they rip them from other games and re-lease them here. The map development scene is pretty much dead-ish. I haven't seen any decent map releases in a long time, and map development used to be a huge deal. I myself haven't even made any maps lately, but that's just me being bored. I really think this server could use a moderator that heads projects that everybody can participate in, or even a member. It's just hard to come by nowdays. I know I haven't given as much input as I could, but I have the feeling this post won't be heard out or the bias against my infraction history will stop that as well. I hope you read it, however, since I put a lot of work into typing this out. Thanks for reading. If you have any questions regarding my wall of text, or need any clarifications or further explanations, feel free to PM me.
 
I think a good chunk of the reason for inactivity here [as far as active development] is that everyone's too scared of having their things stolen. Not really the fault of the forum or it's staff really, though I don't interact with the moderators enough to have any comments regarding them.

I'd love seeing an interesting project the community can work on as a whole. None of this throwing names in the credits and stuff, just working together for the sake of making something :c

Though something like that, I don't think we could make it FlyFF related cause of how people are here. Due to restrictions put on me by the ones I work for I can't share the model tools I made for FlyFF, but if we come up with a new format and engine all from the ground up and unrelated, I don't think they'd have a problem. As I said though, probably can't put that in the FlyFF section.

Man idunno. I wouldn't be to saddened to see this place go but if you can find a way to make it better then more power to ya.
 
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This sections history is way too deep. It would need a complete wipe and new mods. Mods who act the way Adler said. She is 100% right.
Once it gets a new fresh start then the mods should make a sticked thread where every tutorial from creating a server to more advanced thing in that order. Also ALL coding should be tutorials only, releases should only be graphical things like websites.

Also lits of developers complain that noobe wants to learn, only copy n paste. But ofc they dont, everything have been given to them. Fully finished servers that they only need to put online.
Server files should only be clean or have bug fixes, not fully developed.

Sorry for messy post, im on my phone.
 
Well, what a good thread made by sir.
There are lots of things that this section need to improve.

First of,
- Make a new rules (or add) in the section that other good section like MU/RAN Online that make their section peace and calm that this section hasn't.
- Releases from other forum/community, shouldn't allowed to release in the section anymore. * I know, I became one of those user who did that but I stopped doing it because it's just a big mess thing for me to do it, so.
- New users should respect the rules, not to mess and use search before making thread.Something like that.

To mods ..
- Tell or remind them, to STOP being (SO) strict. A lil bit, off the topic give you a warning. Especially when I told a user who broke a rule (which he/she don't want to use the search button) and said that USE the search button instead of asking or making a thread. Then, few min later *warning/infraction message is coming*
What! is that? I know, RZ forum isn't the most professional forum in the whole internet to do those strict and **** that MODerator d but it's better to let those users post a lil bit going off the topic (sometimes).

Also, make a thread that explain what a user need/should get if he broke a rule.
Example,
You'll receive warning, if you ..
list ..
You'll receive infraction, if you ..
and so ..

So, user who're receiving those warning/infraction will know what wrong they did.

Others:
There are lots of problems in the section, but atm, I don't have them in my mind. Once I remember those problems, I'll post here and let you know.
 
Anyone have any nominations for Flyff moderators? Ones that will comply with what the members want?

I would comply with what the members wanted and lead projects as well as do my job correctly. However, that will never happen due to my infraction and ban history, as well as the amount of people, including moderators and super moderators that will vouch against me for obvious reasons. (although there are a lot of worse, more biased and corrupt people than me working as moderators as I speak)
 
I would comply with what the members wanted and lead projects as well as do my job correctly. However, that will never happen due to my infraction and ban history, as well as the amount of people, including moderators and super moderators that will vouch against me for obvious reasons. (although there are a lot of worse, more biased and corrupt people than me working as moderators as I speak)

Adler, you have 2 personalities. The (No offence) "B*tch" attitude and "The Mature" attitude you are showing right now.
If you keep up with "The Mature" attitude then i'm sure you would do a great job as a moderator.

So I would Half/Half nominate Adler. I believe she would be able to bring something good to this community.


I also would like to Nominate MisterKid. He's one of those who have been here for a long time just like Adler and me (Been here since 2009, just made a new account).
He knows how things work here and from my point of view he would fit as a moderator. (correct me if i'm wrong)
 
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Adler, you have 2 personalities. The (No offence) "B*tch" attitude and "The Mature" attitude you are showing right now.
If you keep up with "The Mature" attitude then i'm sure you would do a great job as a moderator.

So I would Half/Half nominate Adler. I believe she would be able to bring something good to this community.

I'm mature when I need to be, and around others that are mature as well. It was nearly impossible to act maturely around ex-mods that weren't even close to what I expected from them. On the server I work for you can check my posts and topics and see how mature I behave in a position of authority.
 
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